MonElite

Whos dog is it? Considered moving out of the place?

yes dogdude - my example Two years ago my dog went missing and what I suspect was hit by a bus and seriously injured. since than he isnt the same dog really, but still a great pet that I love with all my heart. He walks nicely on lead, does everything I want him to do and in two years I have reintroduced him to the noice of the big streets and for about a year I considered that we have no issue with the trucks, busses, big cars etc. About a month ago I was walking him and my puppy with OH and we were getting towards the lights that were red. Also along the same road was a bus and while to was breaking to stop at the lights it screached the breaks and as it was coming from behind us my dog got very scared (that he hasnt for 18 months) Im guessing that when he was hit whatever hit him made the same type of a sound, and I have walked him countless times and there were countless busses going pass, breaking, leaving stoping etc - with no reaction from him - hence considered cured. This was the situation that I thought - lucky he isnt wearing a flat collar as it could slip off head...

I would becouse 1. potentially the dog is collar smart 2. in case the flat collar slips over the dog head in some freak accident and when you most likely need it most.

Leo - I somewhat dont follow your way of thinking, pls explain to me more. You want the dog to make a mistake. What is the reason for you to do so? In my opinion we set the dogs to make mistakes so that we can correct them appropriatelly for the dog, hence throught that they avoid making the same mistakes over and over again. But you set the dog up for a mistake, than what? What do you do? Can you give me an example pls, mabe that will make it easier for me. Also what I want to say that I personally use mainly positive methods in my dog training, jsut in case anyone thought I dont.

Hey Leo - have you ever considered that the corrections you used - verbal or/and phsyiscal were TOO HIGH thats why your dog shut down?

lets move in that direction than haven dogdude - why do you say that? if the dog isnt pulling and wearing a prong - what is the problem with the dog wearing it all its life?

not all NEED one, thats is absolutly true maybe from the fact that a flat collar or a martingale is lests say $15 where the prong is (what?) 4 times the price? that are of course legal and come with no instructions on how NOT to use them, and are about $10-15....

Leo - what do you call a soft dog? soft emotionally? or having a low threshhold to pain? My puppy is a soft "emotionally" dog with a huge pain threashold, what do you call her? If you needed to use an aversive on such do what would it be???

Kylieandpossum - I think you totally misunderstood my point. I said that IF someone was to click the dog WHENEVER they WOULDNT get results at all. And you can buy a cliker pretty much anywhere. In fact I own one, and yes I have tried using it. I have seen others sucessfully train the dogs with them. I havent persued the method well enought to say I had any results. There isnt a point of getting one if you dont know how to use it - wouldnt you agree???? Its the same as with a prong. oonga - my experience with dogs is vast no not really, Im pretty hopeless and helpless as a handler, majority that know me personally will tell you that. I never said that a prong should be hanging next to the potatoe peeler at the supermarket, I said that once you know how to use it you can use it on any dog. Where I understood you suggested that a DOG should be assesed by a pro to get one. Its the person that needs to know how to use it. I belive that a dog that will work on a flat can (doesnt have to) wear a prong, its up to the person how a prong is used, if it is all.

I, dissagree that prongs should be sold for particular dogs. By a professional - yes, but once you have learned how to use one, which is BTW far from brain surgery, you can put one basically on any dog and work on that collar. if the dog doenst need a correction it simply wont get one, the collar will just sit there on the dogs neck not do anything. Those that have been to K9s handlers workshop might remeber what dog jbbb and I got to work with - an obused pit cross affraid of people. One of the first things I did was to change her from a harness to a prong, as she was pulling me around ont he harnes and I couldnt hold her. By the end of the day she loved us and we got to check her ears, teeth, give her belly rubbs, and lift her up. Not bad for a dog that didnt want to be standing with a vacinity of a human being near her. Imagine getting a clicker and clicking it "whenever" - Im sure one wouldnt get great results. Just like with any piece of equipement its the method that goes with the tool not the tool alone.

Not as a main reason, no, but IMHO this one looks pretty good......

PLEASE FD dont ask my puppy to jump up, I DONT want to have scratches like you have....

Ill try to be gentle PAX, cant promise to be actually "nice", you know me well enough Funny thing happened today actually at the club - I had a new student a man with a teenage daughter. I got Ms Poisonality out of the car - he loved her...... (weird man obviously) asked if I want to swap her for his mega pulling Kelpie. I almost did

Im not avoiding answering.... Just like you said that a gentle reminder can be applied with a flat collar its the same with a prong collar. And what I call gentle might not be what you call gentle. So the dogs wont be the same as well and whats hard for one will be a fly buzzing for another. And this is a reason why one will do well on a flat, one on a martingale and another on a prong.

why bother with a collar at all? sure is, so a flat collar would be used as an aversive during the "gentle reminder"?

I have a vague idea. Whats your dfinition pls?

Your 21 year experience obviously excluded combining of the use of a collar WITH positive training. Perhaps this is why you didnt have a lot of success :D

Im sure that your opinon makes no difference to those that are experienced with the tools. Just like you are free to have and express your opinion about something, other have the same right. And untill you are blue in the face telling others how a prong collar or an ecollar huts the dog (that is of course based on some theory YOU developed, not an actual experience) others (myself including) will defend the use of a prong and ecollar. Shall we try? :D

Feralpup, not sure where you have ordered your jumps from but I spoted agility equipement on this site Air Dogs if its a different place you ordered from perhaps these people have lower delivery fees.

Thanks persephone!! I might not give him flaps than, he doesnt particularily like them anyway. And yes he does smells rotten after

Puggles - the vet you also know. yesterday when out walking he did a poo (how do we alwasy get sidetracked to that lovely subject? lol) and it was like a rock so hard he had trouble getting it out and it was obviously giving him pain. He must have had some blockage and finally got it out by the looks of it. Still not eating what he normally does, but he is all happy, running around and playing.

On saturday night I fed my dogs lamp flaps (they are on BARF) but as I didnt have enough and they looked hungry I did the emergency food = dried science diet Rex ate fair bit of it, than threw up. Its on not a biggie, happends. On Sunday went to the park as per usual, he run around like a maniac but I have noticed he had the runs. Drank a lot at home and did nothing for the rest of the day. In the evening I gave the dogs pork bones for dinner. He ate about a third which was odd as he must have been hungry formt he night before. Half an hour later I look at his belly and he is swollen and looks like a preagnant female. Being a dobe I immiediatelly thought - BLOAT. Rang my vet, no answer. Rang my vets wife at home - no answer. Rang Divanis breeder. Panicking I said how does bloat work, how much time I ahve etc? She asked me questions as if he is resting in the sphinx position - he sure was, is he resteless, he sure was, and few other question and as Im speaking to her he is by the minute looking worse and worse. She says get him in the car and drive to the vets if its boat you might just make it. I got in the car the vet rings back. phew! Asked me more questions, check the gums, check his belly, tap his belly. Described everything to him, he says - doenst look like bloat to me, observe him. Anyway Rex got slightly worse throught the evening his gums going a bit pale, and he started to shiver, but got to MY bed curled up and rested normally. So I wasnt going to kick him out and just looked at him and petted him checking him every 10 minutes. In the morning he was fine!!!!!!! I still dont know what it was, sound as an upset stomack, but oh how worried I was! And lucky my vet is such a nice guy. Thanks Pax for intorducing me to him ;) ;)

Cant you organise for your own courier to pick up? that is if you have one of course.

I have also missed you!