MonElite

leo- the argument is that dogs are pack animals and they need to be in the pack not isolated. Pack can be dog or human of course.

Bringing dogs up separeted from other dogs isnt a new concept and many people do it. I find that those that are serious about trialing or those that do IPO do it. The breeder of my girl never brings up her puppies with older dogs, the puppy grows up in his/her own pen for as long as possible, a year ideal. And althought she doesnt trial any more she has had some serius wins in the ob rings in the past and anyoen will tell you that her dogs are the most obedient dobes around the show ring.

Rom find the description of the BH test, I have one handy but its in Polish

Rom - its not schutzhund its Dogsports or IPO these days

I know for example that I turn too much towards the dog, hence I give it a signal to lag behind me. Those that know me would know that I wave my arms, that I train as a drunk etc. What I mean is how do I not give the dogs wrong signals and confuse it? I guess the level of training Im at is not high enough for the 1 degree movements :p Kavik Ill be happy to hear your discoveries after next weekend. Rom I question everything anyone says, I find "conflicting" info amongst the best of the best all the time.

I have the same prob Kavik. My body posture is too all over the place when I train, I move waaaay too much, than when Im ready to be "trialed" I am as stiff as a broom stick and the dog freaks out.

There isnt a person like you describe that I can train with on regular basis. There are people that I like their body language, there are people that I like their frame of mind, or the methods they use or the great timing htey have, but there isnt one taht has it all and especailly near by that, I can train with. I guess Ill just get those that wee the errors I make to continually tell me I make them. And there is plenty of tape in the video camera Thanks for the tips, I also think Ill stick some tape into my back to keep me up and straight. (Trick from my past physio life)

I have got a shocking body language when I train my dogs. No wonder they are confused half the time. I can teach them tricks really fast, they are relativelly reliable in all excercises they know, but the "finish" - we have NONE. I have video'd myslef and I can see how I lean towards the dog, how I try to cover up their mistakes in a crooked sit or return etc. I see it on the video but cant correct it during training. I guess I could mirror the whole backyard, but that it hardly an option. A friend free stacks the dog in the show ring by the smallest movements of her shoulders and her body. Another person I know of gives slight hints to the dog doing a slightly crooked recall just with her eyes. How do I get to half that level? What do you people do? Do you have a person telling you what you do wrong? do you train in front of a mirror? What?

Are you able to provide more info on this? I imagien they used the prong or ecollar as punishement for repeat bites? correct? Id like to know what did they do after the correction was used and the dog released, what was their reward for the dog?. How was the reward delivered, actually what was the reward? My theory - the dog liked the bite a lot, considered it very rewarding and bit repeatedly. Corrections made it release but whoever trained it didnt provide a high enough reward to counteract the rewards of biting. To me the trainers didnt own the rewards, the decoy owned the reward and it was the agitation sleave. Hence the dog learned to bite and loved it so much. No correction would outweigh the reward, as the dog was probably very high drive and very strong nerves. Are you able to confirm or abolish my theory?

Very true Yvonne. However the book (author escapes me) called Schutzhund obedience - Training in Drive, shows prong and names it fursaver, as well as Ivan Balabanov on one of the videos names a prong a fursaver.

I already said somewhere - numerous times I had seen these collars called fursavers. Suits me just fine.

I think Ill print it and will carry it in my back pocket ruthless Than again maybe not, I might receive 250 penatly units for tormenting my dogs doing their nails

Very true. He doesnt pull, he walks nicely on lead. He doesnt know how to heel but if you go to the club or get pro to train you, you will learn how to do that if you have a need for this. Dont ask me how to teach heel, my dogs heeling is cr@p, so when you learn you can teach me, pretty pls.

what was said LL?

ruthless speak in another thread that they dog still pulls on lead

She can try Vets All Natural - its like musli for dogs. It needs to be soaked in water for 24 hours before feeding and mixed with minced meat. No probs with feeding chicken, just tell her to feed other things as well. Vegies, fish, other meats and other bones.

- this comment made me think that ruthless got professional advice on what collar to use for the dog.

Christians thought that pagans are cruel and that was their reasons for crusades What you THINK not what you KNOW. A brick can also be cruel if you throw it at a dog.........

he owns a dobe

They say in that article that the info from the study comes from an Anne Marie Silverton seminar. I googled Anne Marie Silverton, found a website with an email address and contacted her last year trying to chase down the exact notes of this study.....I didn't get a reply so I wonder if this study was actually done? Yes I know what are you talking about. I ahve seen this study on the net few years ago, it went into the details, not just this what was said in the link I posted. I cant for the life of me find this study.

Confirmed with who/agains what? The person can confirm but has he actually confirmed? :D Ask the person to confirm against some legislation or some official statement. They are illegal to what? own, use, produce, import (without permit) :D Ask the person what is illegal about them. *********** on various sites, as well as on several training videos from overseas I have heard of prong collars being named fur savers. From now on Im going to call my collar a fur saver

ruthless is it this study you were looking for? http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html#AStudy

All this only brings one thought to my mind. Why dont we open our own club? I ahve sugested this before but there were not enough people interested. So there you go, Im offering this again. Anyone in this time around?

I was nearly thrown out from a (shall remin to be nameless) club for having a prong. I wouldnt mention I own one in yet another.

That is not correct at all. Importation is illegal WITHOUT A PERMIT. Its legal if someone has a permit, and there are people around that have permits. From the customs website - resticted imports The Australian Government controls the import of certain goods into Australia. The controls either take the form of: *an absolute prohibition, which means that you are not allowed to import the goods in any circumstances, or *a restriction, where you need to have written permission in order to import the goods. The following information broadly outlines what goods are prohibited or restricted, where you can obtain more information about the control and, in the case of restricted goods, the mailing address or e-mail address to use to apply for permission to import Dog collars - electronic and protrusion (restricted import) Description: Dog collars designed to cause an electric shock, or dog collars designed to puncture or bruise an animal's skin. (my note - ) Administered by: Minister for Justice and Customs More information: Customs Information and Support Centre Telephone: 1300 363 263 E-mail: [email protected] Address: Inquiries should be addressed to: National Manager Trade Policy and Regulation Branch Australian Customs Service 5 Constitution Avenue CANBERRA CITY ACT 2600 E-mail: [email protected] this was taken from http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4369 I will also add that customs will not issue a list of those holding permits. Word of moth works well though