MonElite

Are you able to give several examples of very highly trained dogs that have very high drives and are hard headed, that have only been triane with pure positive methods?

Im not qualified to answer as I havent trained another animal but Id say Soviet Bear Trainers werent using pure positive methods. And what about elephants, or camels?

Dog runs towards the target ignores the comand gets a correction, dog turns to run back to me, gets to me gets rewarded. Dog wouldnt be if it wasnt proofed, weaned off the collar. Or more dog - untrained/unproofed dog off lead runs off _ I wont waste a come comand on a dog that I know wont come. I than would whistle and hide. Different excercise to the come in the dogs mind. Reward when it gets to me. an ecollar has a sound button, its not unpleasant to the dog. YOu have an option of using it as a clicker type sound or warning of a correction or a blind comand. What do you mean by more? more tahn a long line? - My Rex is 100% line smart and somewhat collar smart. I have tried weaning him off the line with no sucess, somewhat tried weaning off the ecollar but in reality I have no need to wean him off so he can wear it for the rest of his life. Its often not even charged when he has it on... but as I said - I have not tried to wean him off the collar as I have no need to do so, and it gives me a mental assurance (for me not for him)

Out of interest what do you do? BTW - I dont use a check chain.

What I would do - and assumptions are that the dog knows what come means. Dog runs towards the target, I give a comand, it gets ignored, the dog gets to the end of the long line and gets a correction on the collar, of if I was using the ecollar it would get the correction on the ecollar. Dog returns - heaps of rewards. Is say dogs have a extra strong understanding and bond with human packs, I dont think dolphins come anywhere near as close to humans as dogs.

I just have a simplistic view to life and therefore to dog training. And I dont type fast either.

Well how is it going to get it right if it doesnt get an opportunity to do it again and be told that is right? In child terms v's dog terms in a pure positive training concept. A child gets the answer wrong, we pack up and go home, Next day the child gets the answer wrong we pack up and go hone the next day .... you get the point now I hope. What if there is an exam on Thursday? Im my opinion it would be I will show you how to do it. You do it I tell you when its right. and Ill see few itmes you got it right. Ill tell you you are doing great. You refuse to do it, you get a smack, than you get to do it again and you will get rewarded for doing it right You dont get a smack for not understanding it, I get one for not showing you how to do it properly.

The person I know gives a lot of praise, pets, kisses etc. Never a piece of food, never a play with a toy after, never a tug. Corrections with an excellent timing. Excellent body language. She gets dogs prancing next to her, ultra speed about tight turns, dops that sound like an earth quake. Forced retrieve and no chewing on the dumbell, and no slowing down on the come back. How - I have no idea. DITTO!!!

How domesticated and how pack driven are chickens and rats we keep as pets, on average? The friend that I have mentioned earlier is this type of a trainer and her dogs do not show any signs of FEAR. You can bagg my methods all you like, I actually dont care. If your methods work better and faster than mine Im willing to learn and apply. I sort of dont understand the above. My dogs are pet, they are taken for walks, they are to perfomr basic stuff of come,stay, sit etc. I also do some obedience - is this what you have in mind? Than I ask - how is the dog to know the difference of a sit at home before I open the door as oppose to sit in the ob ring. Or better still - why would I want to bother teaching this separatelly. Edited to add - many people have different comands for drive tought excercises v's non drive excercises. is this what you are on about?

My female is far from being hard headed, she does receive corrections tho, if I need to apply one. Id say this would be the case if the corrections you received were too harsh for the situation and you were to shut down and reach the learned helplessness stage. This is far from what I would ever want in my training. lets say my dog loves to chase ducks, I call the dog doesnt respond, so I pack up and go home, - yes my dog will go home and will chase ducks each and every time we are out. You might say - keep the dog on lead - ok, the dog will lunge towards the duck and will get corrected, will it not? Ive got no idea, I have never trained another animal. What other highly domesticated animals are you talking about? Horses? pigs, cats? or did you mean non domesticated ones like dolfins?

My dogs pulled the whole 20kms, the judge just didn't want them lagging or looking tired. My dog also pulled - not the whole 20 km, but the 18, he actually run next to the bike on the last lap. The first 8km I dont think I peddaled once, and I pressed the breaks heaps of times. the danger is that the dog can overheat and fail.

I do all sorts of things. Fear isnt really part of my training reigime, but corrections are. So is a lot of rewards in all sorts of forms. I use clicker to teach tricks and some new behaviours, I use toys for training in drive, I use food for teaching obedience. I use an ecollar as the escape/avoidance method as well as corrections if the dog knows the drill and ignores the command. I say argh as a verbal correction. I use a prong collar for teaching the loose lead walking if I have no sucess with other methods. I do not correct the dog when Im teaching the new behaviour, but once the dogs knows the command and chooses not to do what I want it to do I will correct. A friend of mine that used to compete at the highest levels in obedicne used a lot of corrections, never gave a piece of food, never gave a toy as a reward and her dogs worked beautifully, happy, never chewed a dumbell (she tought them the forced method) - all that for a pet and a good word from her. I have seen a video from many yers ago of her competing at the state titles and winning them, and it was just a pleasure to watch. This is in my opinion a heavy handed owner/handler. Funniest thing was when she finished the routine gave a break command to the dog (dobermann) the dog jumped up really happy into her arms and she carried the dog out on her shoulder out of the ring. Today her dobermanns are the best behaved dogs around the show ring (she only shows these days)

what is you release comand? I just say OK, people say free or break. So if your dog wants to go outside, do you make it sit than open the door than say your release word for it to go? Maybe you can practice that a bit as well it will help you in any training as well as every day activities.

Hang on a sec, so how do they actually eat? You give them the comand ot go and eat? A Release word to go and eat? If so than give that comand/release word to go to the lid.

I would teach the dog to touch an object not a hand, as hand is too simmilar to a shake. In one day I have tought my girl to touch and thanto go and touch an object at the distance. If it was my hand I wouldnt be able to teach her the send away.

NILIF and TOT reddog this should fix it

is she human agressive reddog? :rolleyes:

I place a lid od an ice cream container on the floor with a piece of food under it. They usually nose it first, I guess you can click this as well at first, but I didnt. My dogs are very "paw-ie"anyway so they use the paws all the time. I also think that if you were to put your hand on the floor and not have it high up they might try to paw it. Another sugestins would be to put a treat on the other side of the door so they have to touch the door to move to get the treet, but Id start with the hand or the lid of a container. Lid is big and bright in colour.

find a thread in the traing section, done by me, titleed - She doesnt like man- some advice there that would apply to your dog.

unfortunatelly there is no course like this is Sydney for pricing in Melbourne contact NDTF

Im with squeek on that one, and I have a great suggestion - run it in Sydney!!!

My thinking is - if you are not very fit and you will be riding at first on hard surfaces the dogs will also be running on hard surfaces and they might wear their pads out, it happends very quickly (as I found out the hard way when I was training) Than it takes ages for the pads to be good again, I had to apply paw paw ointment fair bit and it was touch and go before the test. So unless I could ride on hard surface and the dog run on grass I would build up the endurance on hard surface by myself, than move onto grass and than take the dog. But this is my opinon only, if taking the dog is what you want to do - go ahead, I dont think it will do anything wrong to the dog.

There arent any miracle 2 week things, well done you have realised this. Have you been taking your dog out mongst people?

I didnt mean to upset, my appologies if I did. I though you were laughing at yourself here... Anyway - I stand for what I said - you need a lot of training, if you are not fit, especailly if you are not fit. Im not very unfit and I found it difficult on the day. Im thinking about doing it with my girl next year and I I will start training for it few months before, training MYSELF not the dog. If you are able to do 10 minutes at teh time, perhaps you can do it twice a day? Are your legs hurting after yesterday? Genuine question - im an ex athelete and can give you tips if you want. If they dont hurt, than you can do it twice a day IMO.

Whats rude, that I pointed out the time? I did a lot of self training before I took the dog for the ET. And I have written here many many times about my expereinces with the ET and how I prepared. Shoemonster obviusly needs a lot of training for herself, its not a walk in the park its a 20km ride on the grassy area, and the grass isnt like a green on the golf course. And there is a dog at the front and a dog at the back. Its a 3 hour experience and its TIRING unless you do some form of excercise. I dont so I suffered. I think SM that perhaps you could start on the bike by yourself at first, so that you build the endurance for yourself before you engage the dog. I can tell you that although I trained a lot before doing it on the day I was bl00dy exhusted, my dog pulled all the way through chasing a girl at the front. So I had to struggle with him, I thought Ill end up with my shoulder in a sling after this... There was a lady with a boxer and she basically gave up, lucky there was someone there that offered to do the last leg for her with the dog. What you can do is have someone as a alternative handler, in case you will find yourself too tired during the test. Also dont forget that there is a small obedience test before and after. Good luck, get on the bike and train. If you do the test and you pass its very rewarding.