MonElite

:shakehead: than its that us old timers attack newbies

What was the GSDCA argument - Im not familiar with any details at all. Can someone give me an overview or the argumenst on both sides.

OMG - really???? well that is WRONG. its like saying you cant go over 110km/h speed limit in Germany in a German car becosue you have an Australian drivers licence.........

The other aspect of the problems is that not many dogs are bred to be suitable for the sport, well for the bite work that is. Last WAE held by Dobe Club of NSW seen ZERO passes. dogs dont have enought prey drive nor strong enough nerves to do the sch work. I have know few people that had a dog were interested in doing the sport turned up at the club but than found out that the dog isnt suitable. They can do the obedience or tracking part but really the whole sport is about all 3 areas not aobut one area. And this goes for all breeds not just the dobes Im familiar with. Not many breeders are interested in breeding dog suitable for the sport as well, the bigger picture is that the sport if for the keen few, as it has no recognition, as it has no people that are interested in being banned byt ANKC and also becouse there are no dogs to do the sport with.

I have done lure coursing with both my dogs and I cant see if that has changed them in any way. But I ahve only done it couple of times so far. My girl is absolutly obsessed about it now. Also Casvast - lovely pics. But pls dont put a child on the dogs back, it can damage the dogs spine, and if done frequently ( ie the kid riding the dog for fun) creates back problems for the dog later in life.

You wont be able to trial in Sch with tht breed. Australia follows FCI rules an those limit the breeds eligible to compete. Most sch clubs wont accept non eligeable breeds. jeff Jones posted in another thread

Well - as you know reddog - Im a fan of the sport as well. I belive that there are few clubs around Sydney - one you attended, one at Castle Hill and Illawara one near Wollongong. From what I know clubs are small, they have no "power" and basically have no say with ANKC. Any efforts that sch clubs have done in the past to have the sport recognised failed. About a year ago the American KC has officially recognised, I was thinking that perhaps Autralia will have some hope, but than recently seen thing in the Journal. I dont know what can be done, Id like to help if its possible, but if this will put my ANKC membership in jeopardy than I might not help. I dont think Im the only one with that way of thinking either.

Interesting that there is no Black Russian Terrier

I was born and brought up in Europe and there were two types of collars worn by the dogs, flat leather collars or prong collars. I have seen dashies being walked on mini prong collars as its simply a good collar, if a dog needs one. Europe is a lot more open to dogs, dog training, presence of dogs in cafes, restaurnats, shops etc. Dogs are well controlled and I guess part of the control is due to the type of collars and socialisation dogs receive. Plus most people live in units, hence they ahve a greater need for dogs to be walked daily. If a dog in a metro Sydney is a large dog and a puller it will most of the time be eventually confined into thte backyard as the owners wont be able to walk it with no effective control. Is it what we want for our "best freinds"- spend their entire live in confides of a suburban backyard, not seeing the world, not being able to see other dogs, paly with kids and just walk with the owner??? A prong collar in many cases will help the owners to control the dog and make the walk enjoyable for all. Why deny people and the dogs of such pleasure....

I thought the sport of sch is restricted to certain breeds, I doubt that BC's are on the list.... Unless it in America, everything is possible there

And how about a bit of a talk aobut different types, the half prongs, how the spikes are or are not rounded off for comfort, the rubber tips, the plastic prongs etc. Im happy to find pics of different styles for you if you would like me to do it.

And I think you have NO IDEA about drive training. Drive trainign is a positive way of teaching dogs to do things, certainly has nothing to do with breaking any spirit and nothing with dogs becomeing fearfull. Im wondering how on earth would a dog be lunging for a toy if its getting correted by such a "cruel"collar, wouldnt it just sit and do nothing, or become out of drive andnot willing to do anything????? You have heard something somewhere but what you heard is twisted and not correct. FYI yes people do tie the dogs out and do tease them with toys to delelop more play/prey in their dogs, but that is done on large flat collars as to minimise the possible correction, and often there is bungee cord used. You might be horrified to hear that if you do flyball with your sheltie it is also trained in drive..... Im glad tho that you love the dogs, we all here do, so if you dont want to help with the submission that is fine, there is no need for your input in this thread.

You need to find something that frustrates your dog and the dog will bark at it, make some noice. Mine two will not make any sound at the treat being held, they will look jump, etc but wont make a noice. One day OH was using a cordless drill and Rex started barking at it, so we used this as the tool to teach. Divani so far , but I havent tought her how to speak on command as yet

I agree Jeff. Im just trying to establish what would be the definition of a qualified trainer. Who is it in Vic atm?

I guess my question Jeff is - would you consider anyone that has done NDTF course a trainer that could assess the dog? And a person that has a dog and is thinking about getting an ecollar could go to anyone that has the NDTF certificate?

so anyone that finished NDTF course would be OK? :p

My conclusion is - whoever did did study has no idea on how to use ecollars and should not be allowed to be performing such studies as they are not consistent wtih animal welfare!!!

Where I agree with somewhat resticting the ecollars, who in your opinion would be a qualified trainer Jeff? NDTF? Delta? Canine Council trainers? Rep of a ecollar company? Vet? How would this be policed, how would people in regional areas that dont have an easy access to a trainer be able to get an assesment?

this one? http://aurach2000.rivido.de/video/lennox/lennox-UO-dm-06.wmv dont blink you might miss the first about turn

Don't worry, you're not the only one I wil be sending you LL an emial with the detailed instuctions on how to do it. Stand by.

my previous trainer had another client that I met few times. That client trained with the balanced methods the trainer offered. Was very happy with the results. Than got another dog - puppy. As I ahd lost contact with the person I had asked the trainer - how is so and so going with the new dog. The answer was - the client turned pure positive and doesnt want to know me. Im wondering how many people "turned" pure positive? Is this common?

You did Erny, I meant as in dog terms. Sorry What do you consider fear in a dog v's respect, something along the lines PF is talking about.

Thats what I said earlier as well, what is the difference in your mind Erny?

Fear is part of life, if we didnt fear anything the life would be very dangerous. And its the same in the dog world. Now Im not sure if fear is the right word Herr Rott, but respect certainly is. I like my dogs to respect me. The same with humans. And there is a fine balance between fear and respect in my opinion. Perhaps respect is a bit of fear together with love and understanding. Pure fear - no this isnt a method of treating human nor animals - well, not for me.

My understanding of those people who refer to themselves as "positive trainers" won't use any of the above equipment, under any circumstances regardless. Im with Erny - this is also my understanding. I have been talking a while ago to a friend that is a member of a pure positve list and she showed me a clip of someone doing some work and the dog not really doing what it was supposed to do, the dog simply walked off during the excercise. I said - I dont understand why doesnt this person have the dog on the lead so it cant walk off. Friend explained that the concept is for the dog to work out itself that it needs to be/work with the handler. Wouldnt this slow the training process down?