MonElite

from what I know msm is antinflamatory meaning a pain killer (well this is how I understand it, can someone correct me if Im wrong pls) I give glucosamine and chondroitin to my dogs, as a preventative measure. My boy at 8 years old gets msm as well, for his arthritism, but I dont give it to my 1.5 yo girl. But as if this will harm your dogs - no it wont.

All in all Id like to know why are some people so very much against the ecollars? Do they think that those that use the ecollars are there to purposly hurt their dogs? I own an ecollar and the blooming thing was so expensive, surly if someone was to hurt their dog on purpose would find something cheaper to do it with! I can see a point that someone might think that those with a remote in the hand will get trigger happy way to often. But how many times did you people see someone walkign their large dog that agresses on another and yank that check chain so hard that the dog yelps. Not only that but they yell, at the dog, smack it on the face and whatever else? Is there a bigger pictire why several people are so totally against collars? Some monetary benefit? Political? Status? What is it, I just cant see that bigger picture!

in regards to what this thread is about you can start reading on page 5 of that other thread.

Will you be participating if given a chance PF?

Poodlefan, as always love your work and totally agree with you. I think you should be a spokesperson at that conference. :D PF - from the linky you provided

I dont know what you call a professional world but I work for a Australia wide milti million dollar company, and in my working day I am equiped with a hard drive, monitor, keyboard and mouse. Or did you mean the professional world where the deals are done under the tables, backstabbing is a daily pass time, and the rules are - you scratch your back Ill scratch yours" ? Any time you feel like stuff is getting out of hand feel free to press that report button, or if a particular person annoys you there is an option to put them on ignore. But I would like to know what did you mean aobut people spreading urban legends. And if you say you will leave those areas alone, why didnt you yet? That is an interesting point you make, only yesterday I have attended a meeting where there was talk aobut sustainable living, human needs and wants and "benefits" of developement. Very interesting point was made that we tend to use one reseource to produce another. Id like to learn form you about effect of mobile phones, high voltage powerlines, wireless technology at home on humans. But perhaps not in this thread, as this one was your bitching away. Make more posts, you will than get access to off topics section and Ill be all ears about the electricity, mobiles, etc.

I just remembered. APDT are having a conference in the begining of September in Sydney. I know that one of the subject that will be discussed is the use of ecollars and weather they have a place in the community. Anyone attending to give an update on what was said? Anyone going to represent different views on the issue?

I dont understand one thing. Why do people that have never used a tool (whatever it might be) voice so many opinions about it, sounding as if they are experts in the field, when they are experts in some other field.

I have also read through most of the studies and first thing I have found was this So to me this is a waaaay to high stim that was used, hence yes study showed what it showed. No surprises there. But this isnt how those advocating the collars use them. Some of the studies done there were on containment system. It wasnt noted really that the outputs of them is A LOT higher than those of remote trainers I did like this bit. Totally agree with whats in bold. I find it surprising that ecollars were the tool that was studied heaps, yet we are unable to find heaps of studies on it to read.

Cant remember Lou, but I think it was about page 5 in this threat.

I missed it. Post it again or provide a link to it and I'll be happy to take a look. But the chances are that I've already seen it many times and will be able to show where it's flawed. I think it was a study that had used maximum stim and showed it was cruel to use e collars.

Going OT. Why is it that there are people there that seem to be so against the ecollars, the prong collars, the clickers, the pure positive etc? Is it the bad experiences, is it lack of knowledge, close minds? From personal perspective - I want to learn about any methods that is out there and people find sucessfull, than apply what I choose myslef for my own dogs without harming them. And if that is a pure positive method or an ecollar I shall choose what is suitable for ME and MY dogs.

Perhaps you can emial some companies and offer your services at a right price. All those using ecollars would benefit from further improvements of the gear.

You have a dozen posts to your name, not one in the intro section.......... No website link either. I remember now! snobbybobby was also a member of the same family, and someone else......... Oh must think harder.

Not my personal experience actually. Plus the good old recall lead and a lead smart dog didnt give a sh*t about my deep voice, nor about the treats I held in my hand. Lou Castle = dog trainer Erny = dog trainer Poodlesplus = electrical engineer talking about ohms law. I know who I would train my dog with.

Well for starters most of the responsible people that use the ecollars dont use them as a correction tool, so there is no ignoring of the low stimulation as it isnt a CORRECTION. The dog is tought to avoid/escape the stimulation, and if it learns that its actions do that than it receives no stim at all. And I would suggest that if a dog is ignoring a comand under some type of a distraction that means that the trainer is progressing to fast for the dog and the dog shouldnt be placed under that level of distraction as yet. Of course ou could get trigger happy and apply higher stim, but the name of the game is to never hurt the dog with the stim.

I think they were sitting in the front row in the classroom. I would just blame the teacher

To me the funniest is that the IEC has many thousands of electrical engineers and some seem to own very simmilar types/combos of dogs. Just wondering............ do you people think that companies like dogtra or innotek employ/consult some electrical engineers when they design their gear? or simmilar - meaning someoen that knows what they are talking about when it comes to the closed circuits of low voltage stims? or do they just wack few electrodes intot a plastic box, give a remote to go with it and voila we now have an ecollar?

poodlesplus - are you sure you are not the triplet of a lab + poodle and lab and poodle people? you all seem to have a lot in comon, the older lab (with TDX from memory) and a younger black poodle? Am I correct? If you are one of the triplets, I think we have been down the road of this discussion in the past. I see nothing has changed and you havent progressed in your research.... but if Im wrong and seeing you are new here I suggest you use the search button on the forum to see many more threads on ecollars and their use, correct use, obuse and the colours the straps come in. BTW Its TENS. TENS = transcellular electrical nerve stimulation

I was throwing kongs (big and heavy and on a string) for my dogs and I cant tell you how many times I ahve accidentally hit them with the kongs. Both of my dogs got spooked out few times, and would chase the toy, but usually were ok next day. I did hit Rex once in the face and he wouldint play with me for a while, I changed the toy and thre it different directions changing the routine. Perhaps when you are going to clip the lead back on have some treats and reward the dog for coming and letting you clip it. Do it at home in peace and quiet till the dog learns that there is nothing to worry about near you, in fact there is plenty of rewards in close proximity to you.

Hypotyroistic dogs are thin, fussy, like warmth, dont excercise much and usually have very little fur on the insides of the thighs and underarms. What you describe doesnt sound like hypothyroism. You can do a blood test for the T4levels, might as well do her liver enzymes at the same time. Lots of times liver and thyroid deseases are realted, and dogs benefit from natural diet and natural supplements.

this is great!!! are you going to put a link up on ozdobe PAX or should I?

Is Rimadyl also a human drug? Is it like Voltaren? Can Voltaren and such drugs be given to the dogs? I recall using Voltaren myself and not feeling very well at all, just wondering if its the same "family" of drugs.

tugging doesnt have much of a use when it comes to training a dog for the show ring, in case you didnt know L&L

I have two dogs, with the first one I was told exactly by someone "smart"the same as you L&L - never to play tug games as he will become this that or the other. What rubbish......... years later I ahve learned that I could have used games like tug to train him if I knew how to play, it took me ages to get him to play as he was tought that he can never win etc. We got over the hurdle and he loved the games. With the second dog I played tug since she was a puppy, like PAX said - game is on my terms, starts and ends when I say so, tug is on when I say so. the dog loves it. She isnt mouthy, she doesnt compete with me at all, funny thing I often let her win the toy, she doesnt take any objects from me (well unless its liver LOL, but that is food) In my avatar there is my friends son playing tug with my dog. He is old enought to understand the rules and apply them, hence he and the dog get to play the game. I wouldnt let a young child play iwth my dogs at all, no matter what the game is. And haveing said that that would be any dog of any breed and any game. Young kids and dogs need to be supervised.