MonElite

K9: something in your eye? if you meant me here is something I wrote earlier and I wrote that I dont train her, I take the begginers classes, she isnt in begginers. Attendence in class isnt compulsory in our club, some people come once every 6 weeks... No you are right, I brought some with me to the workshops I organised and send few for private lessons. Mostly students, tho. Trish (the only instructor from the club) that attended the drive workshop. ruthless that came to the club after she had been to you. Oh and my friend with two dobes - she came to couple of workshops and had a lesson with you I think, not sure... maybe you should contact her if you think that as she isnt using the ecollar at all... and hasnt used it. Feel free to PM me your fee Ill ask them again, but not till March as we broke for summer. We train on Saturdays so you would have to be available on a Saturday. I would like a summary of what you can offer to the club, otherwise there is no point me talking to the rest of the commitee. Or if you have aversion to dealing with me Im sure you have got Trishs details. Good luck any club needs improvements and they are best noticed by the outsiders

Just got a parcel from them. Extra speedy responce. I have an ecollar - FieldPro Ranger, I think its their most expensive remote trainer. One remote two collars. One collar decided not to work, I had rang them, than send the collar to them, got it replaced with a brand new unit within 3 days. The day I got it back the second collar did the same as the first one. I had send it to them together with the charger in case it was the charger making them fail. Got it back extra fast, collar replaced with a new unit. Before I had this collar I had the "something" smart one. 3 times the remote got replaced, the collar twice and the charger once. Each time with no questions, really, and very fast. Their service is brilliant, but their gear just keeps breaking down! Today I got a voucher for $20 to use on their products before the end of the year. Shame I got it now I lost the antenae for the remote two weeks ago and had to buy a replacement... arggghhhh, off to visit their website to spend $20 on something if there is anything Ill be interested in. Im in two minds about recomending their products. Would you?

I also use management for Rex - just couldnt be bothered and dint see the light at the end of the tunnel so I gave up. However with Divani I perservered and at the ob club Xmas party she was happily off lead with countless dogs people and kids around her. That made me very happy I must say I thought you got help Kavik. Mind you having the baby didnt help with the timing did it? Are you back at training at Homebush?

In the same sentence I wrote Meaning the woman decided to take on the advice given to her. And have I mentioned how often or how infrequently she comes to the club???? You as in me? or the club? You wouldnt know what kind of a job we do or dont do. I recall extending in invitation to you to come and give a self promo lecture to the members and you wouldnt take it up for less than what was it? $800? for couple of hours? I will sugest to the club again to employ a professional as they might have ideas on things we could be doing better. Just not sure if the club will be prepared to make that sort of an investement. BTW - so far I like all the replies in the thread but would like to stay on topic a bit more pls.

I guess you are making a big wide assumption about abilities or inabilities of the instructors (that you know nothing about) in the club. I also cant recall ever stating that the lady achieved minimal results with her dog nor that I specified the time frame she trained/managed the dog in....

She is. but she cant see a reason to go and spend money on professional advice or expensive gear. last summer I lend her my own prong, as there was no way she would buy one. She only took mine as the dog pulled her of her feed and she had a knee reconstruction. Seemed to work well enough she has him on a martingale and manages well enough in class. She has progressed into higher classes, I dont get to instruct her often (if ever), I take beginners. meant to say she had a knee reconstruction prior and was affraid about what will happen if e pulles her "properly"

They/we (as Im part of the club and one of the instructors) have recomended the long line, to which the lady took with reluctance at first. This is a typical scenario of a wrong dog for the wrong person. But I must say that after hitting my head on a brick wall for months its seems that the stuff I tell her (and what other instructors tell her) starts to work, so its not that she or the family isnt doing anything. Oh yeah and I have send the woman to you as well, but I dont think she ever bothered to make an appointement.

I am definitelly getting one LL

PF - the owner is doing it already, mind you I ahve no way of checking to what extend, and what she tells me might not be what she does. I have to say that the husband once brought the dog for the class, it was as if he brought a different animal with him Now re prongs - do you remember about a year ago how someone got chucked out from EP on a rottie day for having a dog on a prong? And prongs can come off.... and when they do its usually in the really wrong moment.

You are smelling? It stinks a mile away There is only so much I can say/do/offer. Nice dog tho and smart. And definitelly line smart. And line took ma a loooong time to convince. She loves it now at least but would like to get rid off it at some stage, and cant. Moving forward in the subject - I had a lot of probs with Rexs recall and I have finally tought him with the ecollar. For a piece of mind I always put the collar on him when Im going to let him off in a high distraction area, just in case. I personally have no need to wean him off the ecollar so I never bothered, but Rex is for sure collar smart. On that note, those that use prongs to train the dogs to walk on loose lead, and continue to use them later, why dont you transfer later to the martingale or a flat if the dog isnt pulling any more?

He is (GSD)!!! He has been a bit of a nightmare for the owner, I dont get her in class all the time but she does come to me after classes to double check etc. He has a high value for other dogs. Im limited with what I can recomend to this lady.

The dog recalls absolutly fine from play with other dogs, when the line is on. The line is a bit dangerous as it can get tangled up with other dogs etc. If the owner leaves the lead on the dog knows its a lead not a line. And hey Rachelle - c'mon you should know better , my dogs have very good recalls and I dont teach with a long line

Not my dog, and as its a dog that belongs to the ob club I cant recomend the ecollar.

Yes PF. Perhaps a better example would be that the dog is line smart. Someone is teaching the dog to recall with a long line, dog will recall 100 out of a 100 when the line is on, and not recall when the lines isnt attached. Line has been shortened to looze the weight - dog is smart enough to know when there is a line v's when there is not.

I have used a lot of tools when training my dogs and realise that with one dog I still use the tools that supposed to be a training tool as a management tool, and I never progressed. Some dogs are tool/collar smart and Im wondering if its a faliure on the trainers side to wean the dog off the particular tool. Views?

Great post Rachelle. When do you think the management becomes training? And than when does the tool have to be removed? (if ever?)

Ditto to what Kavik and Tony said, but also have you thought about teaching them things in a different language?

I think the definition PF presented is what I think, and I agree any tool can be a management or training tool. I guess Im asking why do "we" lables some tools as management only? Cant they be training tools?

I was thinking more along the lines of a haltie v's prong collar. Halties are labeled management tools, where prongs are labeled training tools. Do you belive there is a difference?

What do you consider management tool and what do you consider training tool and why?

I dont have a problem with the youngster and didnt have a problem with my old boy for many years. I even took him to Darling Harbour for the Australia Day fireworks one year and he didnt care. Until........... one day in late 2004 some idiot has let my dog out of the yard, this was during storm. He got hit by a bus and was gone missing for 2 days. I got back him in a very bad shape, physical and mental. He now is affraid of storms and loud noises. And seems to be getting worse with age. I took him out during storms tried playing etc with no effect, all he wants to do is be by my side, he doesnt panic but need the body contact. He does stupid things while Im at work and he is outside during storm. Fear of loud noices can be a learned thing.

but the stongest drive in any dog is defence/survival

See Rachelle - we had the same trainer, I went to the same person that you go, for a long time. And I do know what you are talking about when it comes to the point of that the temperament is not breed related. But you are taking it to extreme. What, lets say PF is trying to tell you is that there are certain traits in some dogs that make it easier or harder to train a certain excercise. I agree with this somewhat, but I will say that depending on the breed there is more likelyhood of certain traits to appear So when you say that there can be a lunatic in any breed, I have given you an example of the CAO that I am yet to hear about a lunatic in this breed. They just dont exist. To give you a further insight of that breed and LSG breeds. Its unfortunate that some people get a LSG breed in suburbia. Lack of knowledge is to blame for. They might be good owners but these breeds are difficult and unless you know what these breeds are like you might be applying some techniques that will get you absolutly nowhere. And you will be applying those techniques becouse the dog displays certain behaviours that are typical to pure lazyness. As an example - that good loving owner will take a dog for a walk in the neighbourhood streets. With time the dog will start to show agression. You will applly techiwues to deal with that agression. But unless you know the breed you will not understand that this dog is doing exactly what it was bred for and its actually WORKING. This dog has assumed that the whole neighbourhood that you walk around each day its the territory it has to guard. And it will guard it against anyone, even the members of your own family. All this dog wants to do is to lay down and watch the neighbourhood, this is what it has been bred for, you will struggle trying to teach this dog to heel looking up at your face. It will not have any prey drive, nor food drive and might not have any pack drive. All you are left with are avoidance methods, and those dogs being highly rank might get you in real trouble. If I might give you some advice. You know a lot about training, and by waht you write you have been quite sucessfull with your own dog. Why dont you go to an obedience club and volounteer to instruct some pet owners. 99.9% all they want to have is a dog not pulling on lead, sitting and waiting for food, not jumping on them or other people and a reasonable recall. Really, pretty basic stuff for someone with your knowledge. You will gain a lot of knowledge as to dogs temperaments and you might be helping someone with their problems. If you choose to do so , good luck and enjoy its a lot of fun.

sure you wouldnt, no question there. but it would be hard to find CAOs with highly varying drives, thats all. Have you met any, if any? They are not very popular in Australia at all.

Very interesting approach. Can you tell us who is she how sucessfull is she and a bit more about this