MonElite

yeah - I know, ideally Id like to work with someone that is experienced, but hey gotta take whats available, so to speak. Regardless, we are having a great time, bring it on more often I say!

you have seen it all in the comfort of your lounge room, under your newly washed duvet

I wish! Rex is an old fart and his chocices in life are to either sleep on the sofa or in front of the heater ;-) I will ask about my posture, but for now I dont have a sore back, and I usually get a sore back in a split second. As to the dog loosing interest - she is also oldish and isnt being trained at all been retired for couple of years, she is a pet and we get her out so that I can practice on her and the helper can learn on her too. So it doesnt really matter for the dog, as the aim isnt to improve anything the dog does, the dog is a learning tool for us humans. But to answer your question I did recommand. We all enjoy it and she loves me too, so its all good.

We are learning.... http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rjDumhdEr6I

Great post Luke - exactly what I have been thinking. Just the fact that Midol thinks that schutzhund dogs are trained to attack is a scary thought. Sch "protection" side of things is really a glorified obedience routine. As a side note - I wonder why do people when they speak about schutzhund talk about the biting of the sleave. Why do they forget the obedience and tracking???? That are just as important, and just as difficult to train!

ditto. That is practicing an type of teaching/training/proofing of any behaviours you can think of on your current dog/dogs.

He is allowed, he can do whatever he pleases........ And Im glad he is stuborn, hopefully he will stick to what he says he will do, and wont get bored/discouraged with the amount of work and funds that are required.

I cant see anyone getting shot down, or are you chucking a little boyish tantrum? Your statement is totally incorrect. The reasons are that people go and get unsuitable dogs than their dreams are crushed that they cant do the sport with thier lovely pet that is suited to being a sofa decoration rather than a attachement to a protection sleave. Second reason is that the amount of training that is involved is so large that most people dont have time and cant commit to the amont of work that is required to be put in. Third is that one needs a helper with a lot of knowledge as the helper might stuff up and injure a dog. Hard to find a helper... Fourth is the costs associated with it all. And fifth is that it is looked down at by ANKC. Im glad you are determined. And good luck.

I happen to ahve a different opinion. Depends on a dog, perhaps you havent met a very dominant dog as yet Midol. And potentially your puppy (assuming you will get a right temperament one for PP) will be...

I was an instructor at an obediecne club for couple of years before. And I still didnt go and got myself a dog suitable for personal protection.... You are free to have your own opinion, I happend to ahve a different one to yours Ill make a comment about this if you are getting a dog for PP perhaps you should start practicing not allowing your dog to be dominant.....

Im still learning and will continue to learn. I love learning But in short - got a dog, went to obedience club, made million mistakes, tried to fix them probably made the dog worse, gone to a pro trainer, learned a bit there. Got ecollar, great tool, used it with success, but not for everything in my dogs life, only for what I had issues with. Became an instructor at the club, handled dozens of dogs. Gone to various seminars, various trainers, to get a wider view of methods that people use, to pick and choose what is it that I like and what will be most suitable for my dog. Gone and got myslelf another dog with a potential view that I might do schutzhund with it. Dog isnt suitable (its a shame) but allows me to learn more about what to look for in a dog for specific purpose. As an example if my dog was bred for one purpose in its life it would be tracking - she excells at it, second sport she is great is agility. Fun for both of us, and a great learning curve. I try more positive methods with that dog, even gone onto experimenting with free shaping with a clicker (found this a waste of time in the past and was very positivelly surprised with the results recently) Tried not to use ecollar, nor prong and my younger dog has a fabulous recall, doenst pull on lead etc. Why didnt I use some tools? - to see what can be achieved and how can it be achieved. Not with my own dog. A friend has lend me his dog to do a protection part in schutzhund where I learn to correctly handle a dog, look for body language, together with a helper at what do do and what not to do. I find this extremly stimulating, and lots of fun, but also very difficult. In the mean time I also train my younger dog in obedience, try a bit of agility, tracking and whatever other sport I might find interesting as all give my views, experiences, knowledge and motivation to learn more and more to become a better trainer, instructor and handler. You can ask several people here that have met my dogs and Im sure that most if not all will tell you that my dogs are very well trained pets.

I dont do any sort of protection training wtih my dog! and I dont have and ISSUE with what you do, not my dog/dogs dont know you forma bar of soap and dont really care. I am pointing out to you that some people in this thread have a lot more knowledge than you do and you for some unknown reason dismiss that knowledge and their advice. ETC - taht I dont do any protection work with MY DOG

Hmmm, I dont think its exactly the right order of things and where to start.... NDTF is great but the rest... First learn about training, practice on some dogs than go and get a puppy. Not get a puppy and dump the responsibility on a trainer as you might just pick up the wrong puppy. For now I see you are having problems with your dog being crate trained, chasing chooks, pulling on lead and no recall etc. Not so great basis when considering you want to get yourself into personal protection training with a new dog/puppy. Why dont you try training the dog you already have to respond to some techniques you are learning with NDTF? or you havnent progressed that far as yet? And if you are going to employ a trainer I hope you have a nice pile of money stashed away - personal protection is an expensive "sport" On the note of positive trainers - have you researchd the sch trainer I mentioned?

Im trying to grasp the concept here Midol. So you dont have the knowledge about protection training, by the looks of it you have a very limited knowledge about dog training full stop. You are looking to get a puppy to do the security work with??? Why not get yourself into a company that already has traine dogs and see how you go with those? Or am I missing something and you want to train the dog for Personal Protection for yourself?

What dog are you going to do the security work with Midol?

Midol OT question re this what do are you going to do this with? Do you know whats involved? Do you have a trainer you will be doing this with? and lastly do you have the knowledge to engage in this type of training?

the simple answer to your simple questions is - it possibly is dominance.

Im glad you found my answer thought provoking Choppa.

I didnt draw this assumption, perhaps you read more into what I have written? Ill do a shot in the dark, pure theory potential explanation here. This is not to say this is how it is. Training asside, what dogs find rewarding asside. The dominant dog treats you as a pack leader, the submissive dog treats the dominant dog as the pack leader.

I didnt say "sleeping on the bed leads to no recall". I said that those two things (with dozens of other aspects) CAN be a contributor. In the teaching/training and dogs understaning of the requirement, or maybe you have the wrong assumption about the pack order. Does the lowest pack member "recall" to the other dog? Who knows where YOUR glitch is, this is pure theory and speculations.

Yep. Lack of correct pack structure can be attributing to lack of recall. Sleeping on the bed and demanding attention can be a sign of incorrect pack structure.

How do you know? Perhaps its the reason you cant get a reliable recall.... There are plenty of people that use positive methods and never put an ecollar on the dog and they do protection work. Try googling Uta Bindles as the first example that comes to mind. Where I have nothing against an ecollar when its used correctly and belive strongly that its a great training tool, I belive also that it is possible to get a very reliable recall without this particular tool. And plenty of people have achieved that.

Yeah - go Kaos!!!!!!!!!!!! well done, congrats!

But lets say a check chain wouldnt? Inconsistency in the rules....

Uta (judge from the SchNationals I attended) was in Sydney today and visited where we train, I told her that I got motivated to do more of a clicker and that since the seminar last week I tought Divani to bring the dumbell and that today she has even done it over the jump. Uta asked me 3 times if Divani has done this before than asked for a demo and was seriously impressed She said it was brilliant for a weeks or so worth of scattered training. It only confirms that my dog is a genious Oh and for she said that the heeling we do can be really pretty if I work on it more. Showed me some tips, now I just have to do it all...........