m-sass

What we need to accept and understand from a public viewpoint is that the majority of the serious attacks and the death of Ahen are the same type of dogs over and over again. On this news page alone, 3 serious attacks, 3 dogs of the same "type". It's not so much what these dogs are as such, it's what they are not, they are not GSD's, they are not Rottweilers, they are not Belgian Malinois, they are not Standard Poodles, Greyhounds or Great Danes, they are 95% of the time a crossbreed Bull something reflective of the "type" already BSL listed. A type or "style" of dog that continues to feature in serious attacks at the proportion that these Bull whatever breeds do, will naturally raise public concern wanting this type/style of dog ejected from the community. The arguement that all dogs have teeth and all dogs regardless of breed can be dangerous in the wrong hands is all bulldust as everyone knows, this model of thought process concludes that if the Ahen killer was a Labrador as registered by council, the Lab would have done the same thing which is absolute rubbish. The arguements put forward by anti BSL crusaders are too stupid to be taken seriously in the public view. No government is going to release restrictions upon breeds or types of dogs considered a danger to the community whether that is right or wrong whilst the same type/styles of dogs continue to feature in serious attacks and the sooner we accept this and move on the better IMHO.

What's this crap??, terrified dogs are spook dogs, fear biters, weak nerve WTF would anyone want to bother with dogs like that for, they are sadly duds that take a lot of work and time spent on spooky behaviour where the time spent on a decent dog could be so much more pleasurable with a whole lot more achieved. Dougie, I am sick of your crap. You are not a dog lover. If you knew anything about dogs, you would know that dogs who are lost & end up in the pound are usually stressed & display totally different behaviour than they would if they were in their own environment. OK, that's it, not feeding you anymore. Who's Dougie I know that dogs terrified by the inablilty to handle the stress of environmental change have a nerve issue, one of the primary factors that will fail a police dog candidate, inefficient stability. The event of the stress encountered by the lost dog at the pound reveals the true character of the dog under pressure and it fails the test of temperament stability. Too many excuses for dogs of poor temperamemt.

Breeding dogs shouldn't be the given rights for just anyone in a free for all environment, breeding dogs IMHO needs to be controlled sooner rather than later and the breeders of crap dogs need to be held questionable as to what they are producing. Given that primarily only Bull breeds and crosses are potentially effected by BSL, if you buy a papered one instead of a BYB, you don't have to worry about what the council reckons do you?? Tell the ranger that and it will all good then??

Excellent post I totally agree

What's this crap??, terrified dogs are spook dogs, fear biters, weak nerve WTF would anyone want to bother with dogs like that for, they are sadly duds that take a lot of work and time spent on spooky behaviour where the time spent on a decent dog could be so much more pleasurable with a whole lot more achieved.

It's interesting to note how people are fast to determine that a crossbreed dog of Pitbull appearance is not a Pitbull or has no Pitbull ancestory where in fact in most cases of crossbreed combinations the breeders wouldn't know the ancestory behind the breeding let alone the buyers.......so what's the "no Pitbull" based on??, the breeder said so I suppose which makes it alright then?? Point is: Crossbreed Bully pups could be Pitbull X or near on pure for that matter and the choice is buy one and take a punt or not

The bottom line in this situation IMHO is that in most council areas there have been restricted breeds in place for years. We understand that many people don't know and don't bother to research council law and how it applies to a dog they intend to potentially own, but that is their choice not to research dogs, breeds and the application of laws and making the wrong choices is no one else's fault but their own. Pitbull's have been restricted to some degree in most council areas for a long time and have always been determined by appearance and dogs have been determined as Pitbull's in the past with the associated restrictions applied.........I know of one personally who bought a BYB puppy supposedly a Staffy X Boxer that was declared a Pitbull a couple of years ago and they had to comply with the enclosure, signs and leash/muzzle laws, the dog was dobbed in for excessive barking by a neighbour........"the Pitbull next door barks too much" and the dog was declared becasue the owner couldn't prove ancestory. There was nothing wrong with the dog, it was a good dog and the owner was pissed at the declaration, but it goes with the territory even back then that if a dog looks like a Pitbull it can be declared. The point is: If you take a punt buying Bully crossbreed pups or dogs with Pitbull appearance and lets face it, rarely do you see two dogs declared as Pitbull's look the same, it's a breed that has quite a wide range of accepted features, colours, size etc, you could always have faced a problem with dogs like this long before the tightening of laws and crossbreed targeting and the policing of, nothing has changed other than you used to be able to get away with Pitbull featured dogs more easily and lies were more easily accepted as to the dogs determined breed. With that said, no one is forced to buy a Bully crossbreed pup, they could have bought a papered Staffy or Amstaff if they like that style of dog and remained safe and off the radar?

Excellent training tool for many dogs but not all IMHO

What's wrong with a bit of creative management........we are talking box tickers here......what would you need to produce for a ranger to leave happily without your dog on a seizure mission

double post sorry

What ANKC papered pure breeds meet the standard that are not Amstaff's, and how many papered dogs of other breeds have been euthanised under the legislation to date from the inability to produce Amstaff papers?? I heard that most of the vets wouldn't participate because they weren't brave enough to put pen to paper in case "their" career was jeopardised. As long as they are ok Jack, bugger the poor dog they have the power to save, weak as water they are. So what's stopping the vets who don't agree with the legislation getting together in protest by signing them all off as Amstaff's to satisfy the legislation and save some lives??

The basis of BSL is the restriction of serious fighting breeds.......there are no serious fighting breeds recognised by the ANKC, it's not based on bite statistics, so what currently recognised ANKC breeds are going to be determined as serious fighting breeds over night contrary to their breed standards? Dogs resembling restricted breeds could be indentified as restricted breeds for years, nothing much has changed in that regard other than the level of policing and action taken against them. Council's have had the power for years to see a dog and say "hey that's a Pitbull" and slap a dangerous dog or restricted breed order on it regardless of what the dog is registered as or what the owners reckon the breed is.......Bull crossbreeds have for a long time have been risky if council wanted to make an issue of it, it's happened to people along with as I mentioned previously, dogs that resemble Dingo's have been under the spotlight in the past also. Simple, take the dog to the vet and get a letter written confirming it's an Amstaff :D What ANKC papered dogs have been seized that have supposedly fit the standards and weren't Amstaff's. The rangers won't seize a Staffy for example after the owners produce the ANKC papers, that's silly They are not going scoop up a Rotty with ANKC papers and declare it a restricted breed because it doesn't have Amstaff papers are they??

To include crossbreeds which appears to be what people claim the offending dogs to be in Pitbull incidents, the characteristics of a Pitbull X dependant upon what it's crossed with will naturally extend the standard beyond the that of a Pitbull. The owners of these targeted crossbreeds have the option to prove otherwise and some have successfully done exactly that, but unfortunately, ignorance of the laws in this country doesn't provide a statutory defence. Every council practically has a list of restricted breeds and a set of rules for dog owners, but I suppose there are people around who didn't know their dogs had to be council registered either so I guess having no idea or researching their aquisition has come to bite some on the bum it seems? No, I am speaking purely about crossbreed dogs that resemble restricted breeds.

So the government has definitely listened to the THAT'S NOT A PITBULL but a CROSSBREED cry and with the collection of data where Pitbull types have been falsely registered as crossbreeds.......what??, you can't understand why they are targeting crossbreeds??.........I surely can!! Do those worried about their dogs of unknown heritage really have as much to fear as the owners of the pure breeds most commonly nominated in the pit bull masquarade? The amstaff & staffy in particular & to a lesser extend the bull mastif, rhodesian ridgeback, the labrador etc. Some of these breeds have already been banned in various locations simply by the association. Do they even really care about the fate of the at risk pure breeds? I'm guessing the coroner of this thread recognised the M.O. of the owners of suspected restricted breeds & made her suggestion to place the onus of identification on the owner rather than them claiming "xbreed'' & challenging the authorities to prove otherwise. The easiest option is impose a blanket ban to cover all the possibilities. As has happened O/S If it came to pass here, your ANKC papers wouldn't be your saviour. There is no risk to ANKC recognised breeds..........it's already been tested when a court ruled the Amstaff was the same breed as a Pitbull and was fixed immediately. Same applies with the Amstaff's very pointed exemption in the Victorian legislation.........they are after Pitbulls and crossbreed of, or anything that may contain Pitbull that the owners can't prove otherwise.

It was the case really at anytime for years a dog with a Pitbull resemblence could be declared a restricted breed if the owners couldn't prove otherwise and the dog if not seized depending on the council area inwhich it was registered could be placed under restricted breed limitations and that has happened many times in the past. There has always been a risk involved with dogs of particular appearance.......people have been through the same thing with dogs who resemble Dingo's, so to me there has always been potential inevitability if you sail close to the line with dogs resembling restricted breeds or Dingo's that you couldn't prove otherwise that dramas could easily be approaching. It's no different in some parts of the USA........you dont do the GSD X Husky route as they are likely to be scooped up as a wolf hybrid which are illegal in those areas......same thing really??.

BSL really only ever effected Pitbull owners, as the other breeds listed are virtually non existant. Personally, I don't see a need for anyone to own a Pitbull and if someone wants something similar they can safely buy an Amstaff even put a studded collar on it and call it a Pitbull if they wish, I don't care one way or the other, but to jump on board with the Pitbull supporters in anti BSL regimes on the basis of scare tactics that other breeds will be next, I strongly disagree with that suggestion which has already been tested as I mentioned in an earlier post with the Amstaff's exclusion. The Amstaff is the closest you will get to an APBT and if they have provided Amstaff exclusion from the legislation, any other ANKC recognised breed is as safe as houses.........unless you want to keep a Pitbull legally, BSL is really of no consequence to the rest of the dog community IMHO??. I have absolutely nothing against Pitbull's and I know of a few personally bar one who has massive dog aggression, the others are nice dogs, but all are registered with the council as crossbreeds to mask their identity.......people with Pitbull's have been doing this for years to avoid restricted breed declarations.........and you wonder why the legislation has been extended to crossbreeds ........perhaps the Pitbull owners who have lied about their breed to misconstrude their true identity for so many years have contributed to the crossbreed hunt for like characteristics and the amount of times a dog is reported as a Pitbull incident all you hear from the Pitbull and anti-BSL crusaders is THAT'S NOT A PITBULL IT'S A CROSSBREED ........so who has bought the crossbreed under attack then??, more than likely the very people trying to do a turn about after putting their foot in it So the government has definitely listened to the THAT'S NOT A PITBULL but a CROSSBREED cry and with the collection of data where Pitbull types have been falsely registered as crossbreeds.......what??, you can't understand why they are targeting crossbreeds??.........I surely can!!

And this is where you're going wrong. People aren't advocating the breeding of crossbreed dogs. People are saying that just because certain dogs happen to be a crossbreed, it doesn't mean it should be killed. When there are breed restrictions in place which has been the case for 20 odd years, if you happen to have a crossbreed dog who resembles a restricted breed and you can't prove it isn't, then you have a problem which has always been the case. If someone doesn't know what they are buying in terms of breed or know how a puppy may turn out physically as an adult, that's the chance you take with crossbreed dogs.........my point is, if don't want to be tangled up with BSL problems, don't buy dogs like that, plenty of BSL safe choices.

Who's forcing anyone to get a dog from a shelter, again it's about choices isn't it??.

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??. Why on a pure breed forum are people trolls because they support only pure breed dogs............wouldn't it be common sense to expect on a pure breed forum to encounter people not supportive of crossbreeds and restricted breeds and their look a likes?? Because not everyone supports restricted breeds and crossbreeds doesn't make them trolls, but it's interesting to see debates unfold where the BSL supporters are lost for answers which to me is obvious as a loosing battle, a waste of time I think people need to accept the laws and get on with it and next time don't buy a dog who's breed cannot be proven to satisfy the requirements?

Pitbull's have been a restricted breed for around 20 years and even though nothing much in the past has been done to police them, still at any time a dog resembling a Pitbull could have been declared if the owners couldn't prove otherwise and then be subject to the housing and muzzle requirements etc.........I recall a couple of cases where that occurred a few years ago.........so Pitbull's have been in the "grey area" for a long time, hence why owners have falsely registered them with council as crossbreeds or something totally unrelated like the Victorian killer registered as a Labrador wasn't it??. People have known the ramifications of owning Pitbull's for years and sailed under the radar with lies and deception and I am sure half of the supposed Pitbull's anyway are crossbreeds bred by BYB bogan sellers of potentially tough looking dogs...........so really, I don't buy this poor innocent people caught out on legislation condemning their poor innocent restricted breed look a likes which reflects people contemplating the purchase of a dog are merely doing so blindly without any research into what is restricted and what isn't on a she'l be right mate attitude, they don't chase up restricted breed look a likes, just register them as a Labrador now worries?? These situations of scooping up innocent dogs on looks still remains the result of poor choices........no one has to buy a Bully cross breed, plenty of crossbreeds to choose from who look nothing like restricted breeds..........it is the law with the writing on the wall for a long time and anyone who didn't research dog breeds in general enough to get caught in the BSL situation only have themselves to blame when the laws and policing of these types opf dogs became tighter. Only a a couple of months ago my niece bought a new puppy Staffy X Lab........I have had this conversation with her 10 times, she knows, I have told her repeatedly, but she will winge like the rest when council scoop up her dog even if it is genuinely a Staffy x Lab, a prime potential look a like to fit the resticted breed criteria.........it's time people used common sense IMHO.

In the right hands, any breed of dog is safe, but breeds or types of dogs that take extreme handling and management to maintain saftey are hardly fit for the average dog owner in an urban community. Seriously what was that dog good for??, it was a thick head that didn't understand it's boundaries, it chased some kids on their front lawn for what reason..........were the kids a threat that needed mauling the stupid thing it was??, So then it chases the kids inside then looses the target and redirects onto a toddler and kills the poor little girl.........what for?? the dog didn't have a brain in it's head and it's not like it killed an intruder coming through a window at 3am using some territorial aggression for a useful purpose....why anyone would want a dog like that is beyond me........a useless animal IMHO.

I disagree with the fact that other breeds will be next as this has been tested with the Amstaff........if a breed is ANKC recognised it's as safe as houses from the BSL list. No government is going to overturn BSL and release import restrictions on Pitbull's Fila's Dogo's etc, absolute nonesense. As it is a numpty law which has not prevented any dog bites, and it is the same law which has been repealed in numerous places around the world, I believe it will be overturned. If it is not repealed, Australia will be the same as other countries, and more breeds will be included in the mix. Newspapers are already speaking of banning staffords and rottweilers. Do you have any research on import restrictions to allow you to say "absolute nonsense" with confidence, or is that your opinion? They won't be included in the mix at all, the precident was set with the Amstaff........why did the Amstaff get excluded from the Victorian witch hunt and why wasn't the Amstaff added to the BSL list when the QLD court ruled them a Pitbull with a different name.......anything ANKC recognised is protected and will remain that way........there is no chance of banning Rotts and Staffords, it will never happen.

As a BT owner I totally agree with you and I do exactly what you do. I don't allow my dogs anywhere near unknown dogs - people probably think I'm very unfriendly but when another dog is coming the other way, I move as far away as possible. While I'm very confident of the temparament of my dogs, I still don't take chances because it's not worth it. Totally agree with above comments - unknown dogs with unknown temperaments = recipe for disaster. So hoping for good recovery for the poor puppy and his owner. My GSD can still be reactive and I have lost count of the number of times people have approached me with their dog with the common greeting "my dog is friendly" to which my reply is always "mine is not!!". Not always a good line to make new friends but they usually get the message. Reactive GSD's are usually the result of breeding dogs short on nerve or the mentality that reactivity is required in the breed for protection qualities..........we manage and deal with what we have but it would be refreshing to see some breeders who knew what they were doing with the reproduction of powerful breeds.

I disagree with the fact that other breeds will be next as this has been tested with the Amstaff........if a breed is ANKC recognised it's as safe as houses from the BSL list. No government is going to overturn BSL and release import restrictions on Pitbull's Fila's Dogo's etc, absolute nonesense.

And if people didn't aquire restricted breeds they could take them to the vet and not have to worry.