mita

Thanks for that.

Haas the case gone before a magistrate yet? Though I understand it takes time to put together an appropriate case. I'd guess the future for the seized little dogs would rest on the court's decision.

There was an interesting article by researchers at UQ a couple of years back. They did the maths & concluded that, if pounds worked at providing quality rehabilitation, assessment & rehoming strategies, it would actually be economically cheaper than the current total costs of putting dogs down. As much a case based on economics as on animal welfare. BTW the San Francisco SCPA is often held up as one model way to go. They used to have the contract for the city's animal management/pound, but changed that to build a parallel set of services that made an adoption pact with the city's animal management. They answered critics that they're only leaving the city to do the killing, by providing quality, very comprehensive services.... interesting to read a listing on the site below. Like one... they pay people to bring in feral/stray cats for desexing. Seems they've been master of public relations & fund-raising, too! http://www.canismajor.com/dog/sfscpa1.html

Broadly speaking - it's against regulations to say money goes one place then it's used in another. I dont mean saying your "$5 will buy a magazine for someone to read during chemo" means tht $5 must be spent on a mag but it must be used for the "recreational supplies" line or what ever magazines would be written off. We used to come up against this a lot when I worked for MS Australia - as MSA used monies fundraised for people "living with MS" - this covered therapy, doctors, aide. We had one event where all monies raised went to scholarships for people with MS to use for education or a few other things. We often found people wanting us to use their money specifically for research - which was under the umbrella of MS Research Australia. In those cases we'd have to agree to a variation and give the money to MSRA. My point is - they'd *technically* be allowed to do what they're doing - otherwise they're at risk of losing their fundraising approval. Thanks for that explanation,it was just what I wanted to know. It must be technically OK to do this, as you say. I'd always thought it must be just giving an idea of values in using donated money. Like, I didn't really think my $50 would have to appear on the charity's accounts as buying an ante-natal kit, so I was glad to read your example about the $5 for the magazine. I'd only been guessing before... so it was good to hear how it applied to your work in an actual charity. BTW the equivalent of PetRescue in North America, is PetFinder. It started as a data base, too, back in the 1990s, then not for profit. But, as it grew, it became for profit & today is owned by Nestle Purina Petfood Company. I'm not suggesting that Australia's PetRescue should go the same way. It's just interesting. North America (US + Canada) has a much bigger population so I guess it would've looked attractive to big business.

A genuine question. Some of the charities I've donated to ... have a list of amounts of money indicating what that money would buy. So you tick whichever amount/use you're donating to ... & it gives an idea of what the value of that money might support. For example, respected charities like Doctors Without Borders (one of my favourites) will indicate something like $50 will buy an ante-natal kit for 1 woman' . I think I've also seen the same method used by a large animal welfare organization, where the options relate to services/items for the animals. Is this Pet Rescue attributions to various amounts, just doing the same?

We adopted a young sheltie from a registered breeder. Shelley had grown too tall for showing....she had nor been in-house raised, but in kennels (with time for exercise, of course). Soon she started ripping to pieces soft furnishings when left home alone. I'd never heard of separation anxiety & totally misread the situation. I thought she needed reassurance & took a lot of notice of her....patting & cuddling. Little did I know I was making it worse. I took her to a vet-behaviourist at the University of Qld Small Animal Hospital. In just one session, that person 'educated' me about separation anxiety, what causes it & what the dog is actually doing. Most of all she made the point, you can't change a dog's behaviour but you can change your own behaviour.... which then causes the dog to act differently. Penny dropped.... this is the same principle for dealing with children with behaviour problems. So all the things she told us to do, then made perfect sense. They weren't all that complicated but the vet told us the benefit would come from doing them consistently & persistently (same again with children!). Because for new learning to over-drive old learning, takes time & practice. Short-term use of low-dose Valium was prescribed. Valium does not sedate the brain.... it's a muscle relaxant & that's how it hoses down anxiety. So the brain (no muscles there!) is left at full alert to absorb the new learning. Yes, Shelley came good. So best thing is to have good guidance from a qualified behaviourist preferably vet-behaviourist, or a behaviourist who works in with a vet...where both really know what they're talking about.

You are right.... those are the expectations I heard yesterday. And those were people, not breeders, not animal rights folk, but ordinary dog owners with a care for animal welfare. It's been interpreted by the public that Dogs Vic has been given the responsibility of monitoring members re animal welfare law. Which didn't seem right to me. Self-regulation of ethical codes of conduct presents enough internal difficulties.... much less trying to monitor for breaches of laws of the land without any authority to do so. Muddied waters is a good analogy!

Thanks Makes sense that similar might've been applied to the greyhound authority. That might make it easier for me to find the original deal online. It still seems like a poisoned chalice to me ... even those invested with 'policing/investigative' powers (RSPCA, Police etc) within the law, don't have open slather & have to be cautious in exercise of that power. With all their resources, too. As I said before, there'd be high expectation of Dogs Vic along with fierce condemnation when there's some dissatisfaction. Hard to win!

Do you know where I can find the documents that describe what the deal was that got Dogs Vic 'exemption' from what, by doing what? The people I was discussing it with yesterday were Victorians & they appeared to be saying that Dogs Vic had been given some power? responsibility? to check that their members were doing the right thing in relation to welfare of their dogs. Now animal welfare matters are covered in the law. That takes real policing powers (like RSCPA & Police & Primary Industry Officers have) to do all the things required to investigate...& resources. Which obviously Dogs Vic don't have. So what actual responsibilities are they supposed to be meeting... given that, at best, they can only ask nicely. That's why I said I thought that can't be right....given I didn't know then about the 'exemption' (whatever that entails). I'm speculating, but it sounds like big expectations set up, that would be hard for Dogs Vic to meet.

Thanks for mentioning 'exemptions' in the Victorian context. I'd not heard of these being granted in Victoria... & only yesterday, in my ignorance', I replied to someone who mentioned that Dogs Vic had some responsibility because they .were supposed to do the 'policing'. I said that can't be right, police investigatory powers re the law (& as for RSPCA), can't be handed over to non-police. Looks like I was wrong in Victoria's case, as a deal HAD been made. Shall have to go back & apologize. Goodness, Dogs Vic would've been taking on enormous responsibilities in doing the 'policing'. Just the sheer logistics in man(woman!)power to do it, alone. And the consequences that'd follow any problems.

Yes of course they need socialisation etc but a dozen chi's running around a lounge room is a lot easier than a dozen larger breeds in a back yard The case being discussed involves 10 dozen. Looks like I will have some strong words for the person....a tibbie breeder I trust, just told me that tibetan spaniels are in this bunch of 120.

Does anyone know the breeds involved yet? I read chihuahuas figured largely... poor tiny little mites. The News reports also mentioned 'spaniels'. Are there cavs or cockers or some kind of field spaniel. It was hard to make out breeds in the TV news reports I saw.... there was just a frantic tumble of small dogs.

I so much agree that a case like this colours public perceptions about 'show dogs', purebreds, registered breeders, the whole box & dice. When the majority are decent ethical people ... I have only the greatest respect for the sheltie, poodle, tibbie & ACD breeders we've had dealings with, as pet owners, here in Qld. Their hearts would ache as much as anyone else's for the suffering of the little dogs. I also know (not mounting a defence!) how hard it can be for the decent breeders to get something done about a rogue breeder in their midst. There was a well publicized case here in Qld, few years back, where there was a rogue breeder in 'care' of large number of seriously neglected dogs of a certain breed. ) Many decent breeders of her breed tried to get something done about it. . (And these decent ones are on my list of the top people in breeding & rescue.) Their efforts were met with the rogue breeder bringing legal action against them for defamation & such like. Finally, the RSPCA could get enough evidence to satisfy a magistrate to go in & rescue well over 100 of the breed. But it didn't stop there.... the rogue breeder acting for herself fought the RSPCA thro' the courts to get the dogs back. It dragged on & on .... and the fear was that some legal loophole would see them ordered back to her. And who put their hands up to foster & rehabilitate all those dogs? The many, many decent breeders from the breed club. They did a magnificent job. On the day the dogs were all presented now at their best ready for adoption, they looked a million dollars & were so happy. Finally, thank god, the court proceedings ground to an end & the dogs were able to be adopted to people who loved the breed.

One of the trickiest things for beginning psych students to cotton on to, are the differences between positive reinforcement & negative reinforcement & positive punishment & negative punishment. (yep, there's 2 of those critters!). Clearest, neatest explanation I know, was in an article in Scientific American... where they explained operant conditioning, which involves those above. The article comes to a splendid conclusion in describing which of these strategies were used by the trainers who taught the dogs in New Zealand to drive a car. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/thoughtful-animal/what-is-operant-conditioning-and-how-does-it-explain-driving-dogs/ Best wishes with the survey...you've rightly stated, for the purposes of this survey, your terms will mean what. But the article above might be of interest to anyone who'd like Occam's Razor applied to the whole box & dice of operant conditioning, so it becomes clearer. And we add to the mix by making (rightly so or sadly not so) ethical decisions about how the above is used. Like how people in this thread refer to the ethics of what they would not do.

Agree 100%!! T. Another, mostly agree. It's not unusual for there to be some shape-shifting as an organization providing a service, which started on a purely voluntary staffing basis, grows in size & public 'face'. Also saying, I retain respect for Shel & her small team of volunteers who had the original 'vision' of meeting the need of a one -stop, viewing platform for pets with shelter & rescues (big & small). And it grew.... And an acknowledgement.... not a ticking off.... that most of the rescues are completely voluntary, with people juggling jobs, studies, families & other responsibilities. Even tho' I'd agree in the best of all possible worlds this might involve paid staff, in the meantime viability & consequences of that, would need consideration by those involved (not by roadside fusiliers, which would include me!)

My tibbie, Nina Zena is 16 yrs old. Still as agile & nimble as ever. No arthritis. She gets the same food I've always fed the tibbies ...they do better on good, plain natural food. Her teeth are doing fine....I've always included some Science Dental in her food. She's an expert at getting attention when she wants it.... she'll come stand in front of me, facing away, so I can't go forward without speaking to her. When I say 'Nina Zena, you're in the way!', she turns with a vague look, 'I'm just an elderly lady in the wrong place!' I tell her she's planned it....& she wags her tail!!! Be careful what you wish for. Our little rescue dog, Tessa, (thrown from a car as a baby puppy)) had the look of a poodle crossed with a tibbie. When she was 13 years, we thought she was into old age & started to call her 'Grandma'. She lived on, healthy as a little horse until she was just short of 23 yrs (only from 19 yrs on, did she have to monitored carefully by UQ vet clinic). Trouble was she forgot her name, Tessa, & would only answer to 'Grandma'. Eventually, I had to phone council to get her name changed to 'Grandma' on her. council registration. Person at other end of phone thought I was barking mad. Gran, too, had the same basic, good natural diet over her elderly years. But, when she got to 19 yrs, her liver was showing some strain & we had to feed her food lower in protein.

Yes, good point. I've also found it a unique resource in gathering profiles for a breed rescue. Even tho' PetRescue doesn't have a search by breed option, I've found that by Googling two pieces of information, up will come the PR profiles of the breed. Then it's an easy matter to sift out those currently for adoption. This, in turn, means that any of the breed listed on PR can be picked up quickly & the profile links posted on the breed's 'collection' Facebook page....& also brought to the attention of anyone who has already registered interest in adoption. Done in minutes & a big help to the dogs in need.... as well as helping, with publicity to breed fanciers, the shelters/rescues holding them. Worth its weight in gold, in that regard.

Well said, every word.

.I'd second this. Samford Pet Resort is the only place I'd send our tibbies to .

Jennifer White at The Glen Vet Surgery The Gap. Very experienced. Even when I worked at UQ with their brilliant vet hospital (& staff discount!), we still took our dogs & cats to Jennifer because she's so good. Answers the phone herself & will talk with you .... so you get a great foundation to make the best of any appointment. She's been a life-saver... only recently she picked up a congenital heart problem with my tibbie's daughter. Timely intervention from vet cardiologist she referred to... & that tib is set for a healthy life. Also recently she removed a basal cell carcinoma from head of tib next door. Managed it so wound line is in ear fold, so not even a scar shows & her ear sits perfectly. I've always recommended her to the tibbie pet owners .... who will come from many suburbs away for Jenny to do the desexing. She also keeps a mind to any natural methods for dealing with issues, if they're applicable. Also her fees always seem on the modest side to me. I'm not alone in sometimes looking at a bill & wondering if she's undercharged me. I don't begrudge one cent I pay her! Jennifer owns a magnificent German Shepherd herself so is equally at home with bigger breeds. Neighbour who owned & trained champion greyhounds, that he loved, travelled over to The Gap to Jenny because he trusted her totally.

Agree, too. Wise advice about letting neighbours know you are considerate of them & are working on a solution. Bit O/T, but 'natural causes' fixed the problem next door. Possum came to regularly sit on the edge of the back deck roof. Discovered by tibbie, Brockie, who'd bark at it. One night during this drama, possum shifted position & fell! Right on top of Brockie. Both scared out of their wits, took off in different directions. From then on, Brockie didn't stir up the 'flying' possums.

I hope so much they make it happen. It'd be one of the greatest pics of a dog from Australian rescue (via the pound!). :) :)

The photos are always stunning! I love how Cricket is now a US citizen.

My first thought was Smooth Collie, too. And you beat me to it. :) Lovely, lovely dogs. When it comes to elegance, I think the Saluki is the most elegant dog on the planet, but I know nothing about them as pets. Closely followed by their sighthound cousins, Greyhounds. As pets.... we lived next door to well cared for, much loved greyhounds for 20 years. And they were gems as pets.