Longcoat

Shouldn't the person who told the parents that be responsible, not the dog's owner who wasn't on the premises or in control of the dog at the time of the incident???.

I don't think "any" dogs purchased on impulse, puppies or adults provides the best ingredient for promoting a for ever home for the dog. Adding a dog to the family should be a well thought over decision in my opinion

I agree Lhok, but larger more powerful breeds will cause greater damage in all aspects of the attack is the point. If you did have to suffer a dog attack and could choose the breed, I would choose a Silky Terrier over a Pitbull, Rotty or GSD without question like most would if self preservation was the motive. It's a really silly argument claiming that all breeds are equal in their ability to cause the same level of physical injury to a person.........don't you think???.

I'm getting old myself, though I've got awhile to run before turning frail. I would sure as hell rather be attacked by a couple feral silky terriers (I'd clobber them with my cane or kick the little buggers) than by a couple feral Rotti's, mastifs, GSD's, Akitas, cattle dogs, pig dogs or other 25+ kg dogs with strong guarding instincts and possibly strong prey drive. I agree that bad owners of a large dog are likely to be bad owners of a small dog. But the owners of feral large dogs tend to be of the 'size matters' school, and given a choice between a pet rock and a small dog, I think many of them would choose the rock. If you check any data on fatal attacks (Google away to your heart's content) you'll find that small dogs are rarely the culprits. I totally agree with your comments Sandgrubber and I have been attacked by an aggressive small crossbreed dog the size of a Silky Terrier which I swiftly launched off the end of my boot. I have also been attacked by a Miniture Daschhund who experienced the football exercise also. Having said that, after participating in decoy work protection training security dogs, a GSD and Rotty and experiencing the power and momentum of a large dog hitting at shoulder height from a flying leap, it packs one hell of an impact, far more than the average person would ever imagine. The is no comparison between an attack from an ankle biter and a large powerful dog..........none whatsoever

Steve couldn't fix me either and all I managed to do was teach my GSD how to pull on a prong. It's nice to know I'm not alone! Did Steve actually work your dog himself and failed to correct the pulling or was it a correspondence lesson that didn't work for you, just interested as I don't believe that a prong used correctly from my experience training GSD's will not correct leash pulling effectively???.

You can actually train a dog to walk nicely on a piece of rope.........it's not so much the tools, but the training method and the tools just make the job a bit easier. I know that - and thats where I'm hoping to get to with her, eventually, but without the tools, its physically impossible to hold her, you'll end up flat on your face. I cant wait until the day I can walk her on a flat collar, but to get there I need tools! I use prong collars on my GSD's to teach leash obedience then switch back to a flat collar once good behaviour is learned. IMO, physically powerful dogs who can pull you off your feet need to learn that their is a corrective consequence to leash misbehaviour. Some disagree, but my dogs trained in that method walk nicely without a leash too

If you live somewhere other than Victoria, the game of Schutzhund is great for GSD's

Many "serious" attacks are Pitbull types on a regular basis unfortunately. I would wonder if the same severity in attack would have occurred had these owners had GSD's, Rottweilers or Silky Terriers instead???. I doubt that a pair of Silky Terriers could inflict wounds to an adult person equal in damage as an APBT could inflict???. It doesn't matter how serious the injuries were or that if it had of been silky terriers attacking the damage would have been less severe. That a dog attack happened at all is terrible, the poor lady and her family and I also am upset at the fact that the dogs were in a situation that this sort of thing could happen at all (i.e owners who failed them). And so what if they were pitbulls or amstaff? breed doesn't mean a damn thing! and as sad as this may sound it I feel that this can be used for the whole BSL wagon to bann amstaffs if more and more amstaff or so called amstaffs appear to be attacking people.. /sigh --Lhok Injury severity does matter because lesser injuries from dog attacks doesn't make the news or place people in hospital reducing the media sensationalism of dog attacks in general. Irresponsible owners who don't contain their dogs properly would be safer prospects with Silky Terriers than owning Pitbulls.

You can actually train a dog to walk nicely on a piece of rope.........it's not so much the tools, but the training method and the tools just make the job a bit easier.

We had a black Flatcoat girl in 1983 and was the first dog that I trialled, sadly her agility was cut short with HD and had to retire her as a pet to rest her hips and switched to Goldens having difficulty finding good Flatcoat breeders living then in WA. Flatcoats are similar to Goldens in personality except that our Flatty girl was a great watchdog, far better and keen in hearing and alertness than the three Golden's that followed her. She did love a good bark and remember many times dragging her inside at 3am after waking everyone up including the neighbours Funny thing, no one could tell her breed being quite rare at the time and most people thought she was a Labrador cross Gordon Setter was a common identification, or a black dog with a bit of Lab As somone else has mentioned, she was an excessive barker and a cronic licker, but she was just a beautiful loyal pet.

I did, too. Which is why I've also found this thread interesting. That's what "game"does mean in reference to dogs.

Many "serious" attacks are Pitbull types on a regular basis unfortunately. I would wonder if the same severity in attack would have occurred had these owners had GSD's, Rottweilers or Silky Terriers instead???. I doubt that a pair of Silky Terriers could inflict wounds to an adult person equal in damage as an APBT could inflict???.

Should that not be the responsibility of the parents..... ridiculous! I would question their solicitors ability to argue the case effectively

SECTION 66(4) Dog and Cat Management Act If the plaintiff's negligence contributed to the injury, damage or loss, the damages will be reduced to the extent the court thinks just and equitable having regard to the plaintiff's share in responsibility for injury, damage or loss. I don't believe that Diablo is definitely wrong with reference to Section 66 of the act which applies in SA. It could be argued under this section in SA that the little girl startled the dog by tripping or placing her hands on the ground to the effect of what has been reported and contributed to the dog's reaction. Definitely some legal angle here to mount a defence. I don't know if any similar angle applies in Victoria though??? Other laws also exist in SA where the dog is in possession of someone other than the owner which in the salon incident, the owner of the dog is reported to have been absent from the premises at the time.

I don't understand either why anyone would go to the expense and difficulty of importing an American showline of extreme angulation that is unlikely to be popular for any worthwhile purpose. I can't see American lines winning at shows or used for a working purpose superior to what we are breeding here. My faulty coated boy wasn't purchased for breeding or showing but neither would I go to the expence and trouble of importing a faulty dog as an ideal exercise. So, because a dog is imported from America it is faulty? Not every American dog is over angulated, just as not every dog of German origin is perfect! Both have their good points and maybe, just maybe their good points can compliment each other. It gets on my goat when people generalise about 'types', whatever they are, German, American, English, Working, whatever, they will pick out the most extreme example and bag the crap out of the 'type' as a whole. Of course there are extreme examples, you can find them in any breed in any country. Oh and just FYI dogs of American lines can and do win here. That's what I said, why would anyone import an "extreme example"???.

Happy Birthday Shyla honey.............think I'm in love :D ;)

I don't understand either why anyone would go to the expense and difficulty of importing an American showline of extreme angulation that is unlikely to be popular for any worthwhile purpose. I can't see American lines winning at shows or used for a working purpose superior to what we are breeding here. My faulty coated boy wasn't purchased for breeding or showing but neither would I go to the expence and trouble of importing a faulty dog as an ideal exercise.

Uhm, why do you think the OP should pay the entire bill? If her dog had not been there, I doubt there would have been an injury.I agree with lorraine, people get talking to rellies, around the water cooler at work, etc. And can I add that situations and peoples attitudes can change. Currently going through a situation with a tenant which started out fantastic for about 5 years and has now turned sour. If the car wasn't there, the dog wouldn't have got hit..........so it's the car drivers fault for a dog escaping it's yard is the same thing

The fastest rehabilitation of cronic pullers I have seen have used prong collars along with the required training methods to complement that collar system.

Agreed, it's usually possible but not always in the time available. Another issue is safety. The majority of my clients are women with large, strong, reactive or aggressive dogs. I think it's essential that these owners are relying on the conditioning and NOT the tool, and they are highly motivated so they do learn how to train the dog. But I still ask them to use a front-attaching harness or head halter in case something goes wrong. It can be attached to a double-ended leash. As a matter of interest and I understand that many trainers have different methods, but why do accomplished K9 trainers who specialise in working breeds, Schutzhund, police dog and security training generally frown upon head halters, harnesses etc for gaining reliable obedience??? There are several reasons, firstly you cannot compete or work with these tools and we aren't talking about pet owners. Anyone who cannot teach a dog to walk to heel on a flat collar or check chain has no place doing this sort of training. I think the level of skill is generally higher and the dogs are more tolerant of correction usually, so where you have a large, strong dog and a small or physically disadvantaged handler a prong collar can be an option. A head collar or front-attaching harness requires very little training on it's own, they can often be quite effective with the most basic training in how to use them. For this reason people tend to use them and then have little motivation to teach the dog how to walk on a flat collar. Some people make their own choice to just keep using the equipment and that's their business, it can back-fire if the dog then learns how to pull into the equipment though. Those who want to come and get help in training their dog can learn to use a flat-collar, martingale or whatever. If they would obviously require leverage in an emergency then I encourage the use of a front-attaching harness and a double-ended leash. That way they can still walk on a flat collar, but if the leverage is required it is immediately accessible. You can't train a dog to be rock-solid reliable under any amount of distraction overnight. You have specifically mentioned "... for gaining reliable obedience" so I'm not entirely sure that I have answered your question because I'm not sure how broadly we are speaking here or the relevance of head halters and harnesses to obedience in a broader sense? Thank's Aidan, a good explanation, appreciated I had a thought that K9 trainers were more focused with training the dog what ever it takes and not provide tools of management. I train with a Schutzhund club and the times people have arrived with head collars or harnesses to do obedience it's always been "firstly, get that thing off the dog" scenario.

You will find in most council regulations, dogs are exempt from reaction either in their own yard or seeing a person or another dog attack their master/family member.

How do you figure that? From what RL has told us, his dog was in it's own yard, contained by a fence. The neighbours dog somehow got it's leg under the fence and RL's dog had hold of the leg. If your dogs are on your own property what more can you do? It is up to the neighbour to keep their dog (and it's legs) inside their own yard. A regulation has to be breached before accountability can be determined. In most dog regulations and acts, dog are exempt from reaction with intruders entering their own yard defined as provocation.

Agreed, it's usually possible but not always in the time available. Another issue is safety. The majority of my clients are women with large, strong, reactive or aggressive dogs. I think it's essential that these owners are relying on the conditioning and NOT the tool, and they are highly motivated so they do learn how to train the dog. But I still ask them to use a front-attaching harness or head halter in case something goes wrong. It can be attached to a double-ended leash. As a matter of interest and I understand that many trainers have different methods, but why do accomplished K9 trainers who specialise in working breeds, Schutzhund, police dog and security training generally frown upon head halters, harnesses etc for gaining reliable obedience???

Beat me to it Nekhbet, just thinking exactly that when clicking on your post

Most of the old GSD breed descriptions mention aloofness with strangers, but I have noticed in more recent publications that the aloofness references are not often mentioned???.