Longcoat

The unsuitable dogs cannot do bite work in our club, some do obedience along with dogs of ineligible breeds to trial in Schutzhund, some do tracking. They are not rejected from participation in other activities other than Phase C.

Because they see the 'bite work' and because the media stirs things up and calls it 'attack work' or other nonsense, the general public sees this as a display of aggression in the same vein as they do when they see dogs attacking people/kids on TV. It's called ignorance. The other issue are those that train that have no idea what they are doing and push dogs that do not have the inner strength to perform this sport. We can't control what people do when training in private, but I can tell you for a fact Angelsun, that no clubs in affiliation with Schutzhund Australia train and push unsuitable dogs. In fact it's sad to see the amount of supposed champion breedings that fail the initial character test and are rejected as unsuitable for the sport.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids. The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing. It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow. There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow. And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this. The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets. Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned. THE FIRST DOG. Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common. Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls. I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?" "AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers. The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!! Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers. How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!. This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed

I don't think the requirement is "desexing", it's "steralisation" which means cannot reproduce. A tubal ligation and vasectomy results in steralisation and complies with the requirement.

We have a Golden Retriever and a GSD, and it's very noticeable walking either dog as to peoples reaction. Can't really recall a time anyone has obviously steered clear of our GR, as they do when walking our GSD. There is a woman who fitness walks regularly in our area and walks past our GR and crosses the road when I am walking our GSD towards her???. She may have had an experience with a GSD in the past too??? when we walked our old GSD when we walked him on the path people would see him and cross the road to stay clear of him There are a lot of people scared of GSD's and don't like them, and many will tell you that they don't like your GSD and critisize the breed. Most that are critical of the GSD usually call them Alsations for some reason I have found

We have a Golden Retriever and a GSD, and it's very noticeable walking either dog as to peoples reaction. Can't really recall a time anyone has obviously steered clear of our GR, as they do when walking our GSD. There is a woman who fitness walks regularly in our area and walks past our GR and crosses the road when I am walking our GSD towards her???. She may have had an experience with a GSD in the past too???

Most people that hate Pitbulls do so by the negative media coverage they receive. Most of those people have probably never met one or perhaps even seen one but they make a judgement on what they hear that sounds plausible which is just human nature for the most part I guess

It's still difficult to determine which behaviour and thoughts a dog may have is correct, as many of the authors of these books all have a different idea

Actually, this whole thread is a candidate for the report button and should technically be in the "Off Topic" section shouldn't it???

This is where some laws need to be in place........at the root of the problem, not trying to shut the gate after the horse has bolted. It should be an offence to breed dogs for anyone other than a registered breeder. It should be an offence to breed cross breeds without being a registered breeder and applying for a permit to breed crosses for a valid reason with strict criteria. It should be an offence to sell unregistered breedings or advertise them for sale. It needs to be made difficult for the average yobbo to breed and aquire dogs in general. Where did this crossbreed dog that severed the lady's arm come from???. Was it attained by screening potential owners by a registered breeder and offered for sale for $800/$900, or a giveaway to any yobbo that would take it??? Dog control and laws need to be in place where dog's begin in the breeding structures. Any one who wants a Pitbull or any other breed dangerous or not that researches the breed and pedigrees, finds an ethical breeder and pays $1000 for a puppy who the breeder believes is worthy of the purchase is likey to be a process attractive to irresponsible owners. BSL, targeting breeds, mandatory desexing etc etc, are all bandaid measures to what essentially is too many poorly bred dogs attained by irresponsible owners too easily IMO

There is no place for aggressive behaviour and the "old school" methods to deal with aggression IMO work best.

'kamukeli' date='25th Mar 2010 - 11:08 PM' post='4417543'] Found this on facebook... found it interesting. The GSDC's anti-Schutzhund policies is purely of self interest. It's a blatant lie that the GSDC has any interest in preserving the breeds integrity whatsoever

Most of the working dog breeders that do require Schutzhund titles by world standards to maintain the breeds integrity are breeding show dogs preferring the minimal amount of effort required in training and preparation in order to enter a show. Schutzhund training and titling breeding stock is too hard for these breeders so they all get together with the breed clubs and make up their own rules. The sad part is, they are destroying the breed in the process ;)

I think you're missing the point of what people are saying a little. No one would argue that behaviour problems are not created by poor training/socialisation etc etc. Of course they can be. What they are saying, is that the path the dog takes in relation to the 'mistake' the Owner makes, is mostly decided by genetics. So Dog A that is poorly socialised might still end up absolutely fine and bomb proof. Dog B might end up a basket case. It was the same mistake and the same environment, but the response from the dog is primarily genetic. Our first GSD was heavily socialised with people from 8 weeks of age as we took him to work with us, met a dozen new people per day and was a friendly happy outgoing puppy of good nature. Around 5 months of age, someone new came into the reception area where the puppy then had access and he ran at this person, barked and lunged tearing the guy's shirt He scared the hell out of the guy as a 5 month old male GSD is a reasonable size and obviously scared us also as this behaviour suddenly came from out of the blue. ;) We removed his access to the reception area after that incident. He tried to lunge a few more times aggressively at strangers to the mistake we made was avoiding situations where he could react which escalated the problem when he did come into contact with strangers, he would fly off the handle at the end of the leash. To cut a long story short, it took a lot of training to manage the situation and correct the fault which was genetic as his bloodlines were purposely bred for sharpness by mistake of perceiving this temperament type is necessary in the development of guard and security dogs. For a GSD, his temperament was faulty, but the same temperament we later found out was evident in his ancestors and other breedings with the similar parentage and bloodlines.

I totally agree with what Kavik is saying here This situation happens often in some working breeds and the raising and training of a weaker temperament dog compared to a harder temperament is completely different. Some working dog owners will condemn an owner of weaker temperament dogs for being reactive and brag about how their harder temperament dog doesn't react and do the things that the weaker dog does. It's more good fortune than good management for the harder temperament dog as the owner hasn't had to contend with the behavioural issues that the owner of the weaker temperament dog has. Some people I know have worked extremely hard with stranger aggression and dog aggression problems with a particular breed where someone else with same breed and a different temperament dog has never been faced with the aggression whatsoever.

It seemed to me, from your post, that Ben was unhappy about the children, and would be better with no children - or at least, children coming or going. It seemed to me that he was giving constant warnings about his unhappiness. Now that you have posted a bit more, I suggest you check him for neuro issues, and also have a thyroid test done. Thyroid problems can present like this. I don't think a behaviourist can help. Hopefully, the breeder can help, but I would not send him to any rescue. I think the people who take him as a new home need to speak to you. If he is fostered, that is one more unstable situation, where he is likely to do something wrong. He needs to go from your home to a new one - with no children, and people who are not only aware of his issues, but have seen them. A rescue could only relate the issues to someone else, and there is a big chance of misunderstandings which will end in grief all round. Good luck. It sounds more like a typical case of fear aggression and the dog becomes confident that lunging and snapping relieves his fear of the people in his environment that he believes don't belong. This behaviour is common in GSD's lacking nerve strength. A good behaviourist can help dramatically in this situation teaching the dog how to handle pressure.

What training???............a few months ago Brooke, your dog was running away when someone was attacking you, now it's biting everyone. have you been ramping up the dog's suspicion levels and defense drives and now it's backfired???.

Sorry Brooke, this is a dog forum and talking about PTS to engage in other activities regardless of what they may be IMO is a disgrace when you have the choice. You asked for an opinion and this is mine. Re-home your dog if you must, but PTS , I can't wear that

You must be joking Brooke The dog belongs to you, the foster kids don't.......no contest is it really???.

I dont know ,but i do know that years ago my ex- husband bought a rottie.Beautiful dog-he would not desex him though despite my arguments.This dog grew up with the kids,i was very pedantic with the kids and dogs ie always under supervision,and th ekids were taught from the time they could crawl to be gentle.This dog loved the kids,he would follow them around whereever they went,if they looked like going out of the house yard he would alert me. He turned 2,and one day the 2nd youngest just walked towards his father and the dog just went for him-no warnings,just full on snarling,hackles and teeth showing and the bounding ,stiff legged gait.I was there right next to my son when it happened,the dog had been sitting with the kids only minutes prior. So yes, a dog can turn in an instant,it doesnt matter for what reason,unless the dog is being hurt or has been abused,there is no excuse for it and they should be put down,as this dog was immediately. Thanks for sharing your story Centitout, a very sad situation. You do hear other similar stories with kids involved. I have always wondered if perhaps conflict exists in the pecking order bewteen dogs and kids??? Dogs that have snapped and bitten kids in the family generally have never aggressed towards the adults, leaders of the pack.

Because you are ignorant & illiterate, being dog aggressive doen't make a dog people aggressive, I am sick of wasting my time on people who are brainwashed by the media Funny thing is Mantis, I know two APBT breeders well and have spent time with their dogs who are all extremely placid and freindly pets. I have also played with them with my dogs and are as fine as any pet could be. However, they have also told me the same story that Whippets has just told us...........perhaps they are also not educated enough yet with the breed???. OH I believe you. Doesn't look like too many believe your interpretation of the breed Mantis, otherwise they would be off the list

Because you are ignorant & illiterate, being dog aggressive doen't make a dog people aggressive, I am sick of wasting my time on people who are brainwashed by the media Funny thing is Mantis, I know two APBT breeders well and have spent time with their dogs who are all extremely placid and freindly pets. I have also played with them with my dogs and are as fine as any pet could be. However, they have also told me the same story that Whippets has just told us...........perhaps they are also not educated enough yet with the breed???.

Correct

The are plenty of dogs of various breeds that have the genetic instincts to maim and kill, the studies are wrong, nonesense infact. The difference is in the raising and training dogs of this nature that makes them safe. Did I just read that right ? There are breeds out there that are geneticallyt predisposed to maim and kill , is that right ? The studies that Poodlefan mentions are not nonsense, they highlight some very important factors that are often present, when it comes to how many dogs that are involved in attacks are raised and treated. Statistically, they are also more likely to be male, young and entire. It's complete nonesense SBT123 totally. Dogs know how to attack and bite and are born with that skill. If it surfaces or not largely depends on how the dog is raised and trained. Unfortunatlely it is not complete nonsense. Certain breeds need to have the biting instinct bred out of them. Some dogs bite, but to rip an arm off its owner or even a neighbour, that is bazaar behaviour and has to be involved with training or upbringing. edit for spelling mistake Are we saying that the dog in this incident was attack trained???. I bet it's never had a day of formal training in it's life and acted out of pure instinct.

The are plenty of dogs of various breeds that have the genetic instincts to maim and kill, the studies are wrong, nonesense infact. The difference is in the raising and training dogs of this nature that makes them safe. Did I just read that right ? There are breeds out there that are geneticallyt predisposed to maim and kill , is that right ? The studies that Poodlefan mentions are not nonsense, they highlight some very important factors that are often present, when it comes to how many dogs that are involved in attacks are raised and treated. Statistically, they are also more likely to be male, young and entire. It's complete nonesense SBT123 totally. Dogs know how to attack and bite and are born with that skill. If it surfaces or not largely depends on how the dog is raised and trained.