Linda K

I am bemused too Steamboat - by you. Have you actually done the conversion to kilos from the standards you quoted? I am rather bemused as well. But for a different reason. From the UKC APBT standard Height and Weight The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy. You do realise that 35-60 pounds = 15-27 kg, and 30-50 pounds is 13.6-22 kg. 40 kg in that case is definitely as the original poster said, way over the weight range, nearly double. But not the first time you have let facts get in the way of making a point

just sick and wrong - poor pug

I could also add, why would an owner want to prove their dog was a restricted breed? - if they don't prove it is a restricted breed, doesn't that mean therefore they are not a restricted breed?

will be interesting to see if they come back saying things are deficient and the only way to rectify it is by using all their supplements

NO Steamboat, please do not quite me in making an opposite point, You missed the whole damn point of what I was saying - what she was saying was backing BSL. What I was saying is that continually blaming just the breed of dog is nonsensical, without going into their care and welfare / training etc (which she should have taken the time to do but didn't, a huge education opportunity lost because she stopped just at the breed of dog, and went no further into any of the above.

who is the lab - there has been a scammer around the cat world that was quoting way cheaper prices than some of the other labs, and sadly some people got fooled into using them, their results have proved bogus compared to the same tests done at UC Dsvis, and they are just after money. Agree this screams of scam. The only thing that we use hair tests for is thoroughbred foals have hair follicles taken to use for parentage confirmation, and this involves the vet pulling hair follicles from the mane - anything with the cats is just a cheek swab, not hair.

and given the latest opinions of some people on this topic, no wonder we get stuck with ridiculous laws like this - knee jerk laws to sooth people who do not have a clue, but having a law now makes them now feel safer, even though the reality is that they are no safer, as the laws have not tackled the real issue - it is the person at the other end of the lead causing the issues, not the dog.

sadly it does not surprise me - as others have stated, didn't think it was ever going to be other that in total support of the gov knee jerk legislation, esp given the recommendation was also centered around suggesting something that has already been in place for many years. A disappointing waste of time, and sadly achieves little to stop it occurring again, whilst people live in blissful ignorance with the reassurance that their gov has done something, so everything is OK now

no it is a thread about whether it is right for pet shops to have any animals in them, and an in total agreement with Steve. As for the comment about you don;t want to leave one behind, well, that hardly hold any water unless there is only 1 animal there at a time. The whole it is OK for rescue / shelters to do whatever they like, since their animals have only come from deserving sources, and so therefore the objections don;t count is not realistic. Tell me of a breeder that would not be stormed by the AR masses and welfare advocates if they were to publicly announce they had only 1 days supply of food left for their animals they had there, and needed more food urgently or animals would starve, and yet a certain group here in Vic did just that, and then wondered why they were inspected again by their council - they would be the first to complain though if action were not taken against a breeder in the same circumstances, and yet they are agitating yet again that this council is picking on them. We need to get away from the whole pet shops are wonderful places to get an animal, any animal, no matter where they come from, NO EXCEPTIONS

hear hear

used to make quilts out of them with my horse show ribbons - just sewed them all together with zigzag stitch, and then it could also be a throw rug too

in total agreement with Steve - they should not be there period. It is not all of a sudden magically OK because they are rescue animals

totally agree Steve, and that is the problem with so many shelter supporters - all these things are perfectly OK when it comes to what they are doing, but not OK for anyone else.

why do I assume impulse buy - I don't, however if people bothered reading the posts above mine that everyone is quoting, they will see that (I think it was Cosmolo? but could be wrong) someone else had just made this point in this thread, saying that impulse buying went on in shelters, and if I didn't think it occured I should think again. The point I was making which seems to have been lost in translation, and was made in the very first post in this whole thread, and that I totally agree with, is it does not matter where the animal has come from, it should not be for sale in a pet shop. The 2nd point I was making is that to me it does not all of a sudden make it OK for animals to be in pet shops for sale just because they are from a shelter. By all means, have adds for them in the pet shops, but not the animals themselves. I am just staggered how many people think it is all of a sudden OK for it to be done if they come from a shelter or rescue group.

But wit a minute, rescue groups also jump all over the impulse buy things with pet shops, and make themselves out as the paragons of virtue that they do such onerous checks and balances to ensure they are homing to the right home. So once again, we are hearing it is OK for them to sell to impulse buyers, same as it is perfectly OK for them to sell in petshops, but not anyone else. I give up, yes of course these are such wonderful places for animals to be, far better than being raised in a breeders home and being exposed to the hustle and bustle of just what a home is, as so many's peoples homes are just like a shop. Oh wait a minute, that's right, they're not...........

OK, so forget where they come from for a minute then, what you are both saying, aussie 3 & minimax, based on what you say above, is you have no problems at all then with dogs being sold in pet shops, as an enclosure is an enclosure. What about social enrichment, the only times I have ever seen dogs out of cages at a pet shop is when they are being passed te parcel around propective buyers. Guessing you feel that is not a problem at all. Sorry I do, and don't think a pet shop is a place for any animal ever period. Such hypocrisy is exactly the battle breeders face, and you are right Thundercat about OF

Not many shelters have animals in glass boxes.

have a problem with it if it is handled the same way as PP did - do the dogs and cats stay there overnight, how long are they there for. The Petbarn near us at Plenty Valley has them, as does the BestFriends Superstore at Thomastown. I don;t think they should be in either place personally, no matter where they are from. I also, as a breeder, have a very real issue with the hypocrisy of rescue groups saying not to buy from breeders who encourage you to meet them at shows or elsewhere, or deliver an animal to you, that you must see where the animals are kept, inspect every inch of their home, meet the parents etc, yet are only too happy to have adoption days where the animals are bundled up and put on mass display like this at a petshop away from their shelter, so you are not seeing their animals at their shelter or in the foster carers homes etc, and seeing the conditions they are being kept under by that group. Surely if they insist that you see how a breeder operates regarding aniaml husbandry, why not a rescue group? One of the rescue groups I have visited myself (just to see if what I had heard was correct), I could not imagine keeping anything in conditions that smelly or bad ever, and yet they are the biggest callers of breeders being the worst scum on earth and to avoid like the plague.

all dogs have returned. Also assuming typical journo taking out of context, or more to the point that at that stage she was more worried about her 4yo son missing, and if she had to later get the dogs from the pound if they were not found with him and she was concentrating on finding her son rather than the dogs, then that was where her current focus was. Certainly did not take it as she didn't care about the dogs and wanted nothing to do with them, if anything, given they saved her sons life, I think they will be on steaks for dinner for life, judging by her happy reaction to them all being found safe and sound

under our code of ethics for GCCFV, we are not allowed to sell kittens to pet shops, not that I need this to stop me doing that, it is something I would never contemplate.

bought a brilliant thing at the show, which is a very fine toothed scraper, it is brilliant on chairs and carpet scratching posts for cat hair (I have Persians), so imagine it would also be good for dog hair

no problem with that gapvic, just takes lonher using the camera battery, and drains the battery - I have a firewire card reader and it downloads pronto. Tlc - know that when I accidentally unplugged a harddrive before ejecting, it could then no longer be read by the computer (luckily I double u my external drives anyway), so imagine that yes it could trigger exactly the same thing with a card - think you should probably be OK in future but would reformat the card before using it, and just not do that again. I also reformat after each use of the card too.

no idea, but guessing it is a copyright thing

from the DPI Vic own website Restricted breed dogs are five specific breeds of dogs. They have not attacked a person or animal or displayed signs of aggression, but they are considered a higher risk to community safety than other breeds of dogs. The following dog breeds are restricted: * American Pit Bull Terrier (or Pit Bull Terrier) * Fila Brasileiro * Japanese Tosa * Dogo Argentino * Perro de Presa Canario (or Presa Canario). Only the American Pit Bull Terrier (or Pit Bull Terrier) and one dogo Argentino is known to be in Victoria. From 30 September 2011, all dogs fitting the Standard, except where exemptions are given by the Standard, are considered a restricted breed dog. Restricted breed dogs must be muzzled and on a leash while outside in public places.

you also need to be careful what you are then using it for if you buy the student edition - you cannot use it to make a profit (ie for business), if you have not bought the full version but paid student price.