Yesmaam

IPO is not banned in any state. There are restrictions in how you conduct business in C phase but as long as you comply with legislation you can still practice IPO in all 3 phases in Victoria.

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Very ordinary stuff shown here.

Nekhbet, are the youtube's Australian? All this stuff looks great but where to next is my question. How is this type of training transferred over to an operational environment? Can the ball popper be incorporated into other objects/ apertures after using it in a wall eg: if it is always a black box the dog will look for this won't he....... Or is the ball popper phased out after the initial odour recognition training? I understand the focus type of training using apertures such as the holes in the wall.

Here are some differences between this and IPO tracking. In IPO, the dogs nose must be deep ie: on the ground and he must stay in the primary scent. The phrase we use is 'ploughing the field' Air scenting, casting or high nose is not allowed. The dog cannot be resting at any time during the track and must maintain a consistent speed. Restarting a dog if he stops will lose you points. If it is hot so be it, same conditions for everyone so no allowance for this. The dog must indicate the articles - most teach a drop so that the article is between the front legs. Head flick and move on would be considered a miss. Article size is 10cm x 3cm and doesn’t matter about colour as the dog is taught to recognise human scent on article. You can run into problems if you always train on objects that visually stand out and you would have to ask yourself what you are teaching…. ie: dark colour - seen it a hundred times when a dog passes something just off the track and the dog darts off course to look at it thus loosing points. This would be considered a distraction. During training we will sometimes deliberately set the dog up for this scenario. Most people I know use food to teach behaviour. Motivation teaches speed and is undesirable in IPO. Scent/ food drag is not tracking. All members in our club use basically the same method and if that isn’t suited to the dog then usually the dog isn’t good enough for IPO anyway. In the end, tracking in IPO is obedience and forms part of the overall temperament test.

10cm x 3cm. can be made of leather, wood or carpet. quite often people train on smaller.

I only have experience with IPO tracking (the word Schutzhund is being phased out worldwide but it is the same). It is meant to be judged quite strictly because it is part of the overall temperament test of IPO. Yes, food is used to teach the association between crushed grass (footsteps) = reward. It is not present during competitions and dogs at that level don't have much food in their training tracks. As far as I understand there are big differences in IPO v's ANKC tracking.

yes yes but wolves for 99.9% of the time hunt large prey in packs where shaking isn’t an option (Elk, caribou, bison, deer etc...), but in saying that they are opportunistic animals and will catch smaller animals if they have to. Generally, shaking isn’t an option for large prey. In this instance, the bite that kills is the bite around the throat, full solid and calm, while others also hold the prey down, again, full solid and calm. I don’t really need to explain this, just jump on utube as there are plenty of videos to show you. Re:I don't think its safe to assume that the said wolf has a poor nerve costume just because it shakes the prey. Yes, but in terms of SchH, a dog that shakes the sleeve is generally the same type of dog who also shifts on the sleeve or bites with a shallow grip and is sometimes vocal (take note of the word generally). These dogs are generally weaker in nerve and the pressure of being on the sleeve shows it to you. They are usually vocal throughout all of the pressure phases in the C work and a simple drive with the correct amount of pressure and a stick hit will expose the rest to a judge for you. That is the beauty of SchH - It is an open forum for handlers to showcase their dogs, nothing more and nothing less. People will always like different dogs for different reasons and having the ability to see the different dogs is again another great aspect of the sport. It isn’t meant to be some kind of "real" this or "real" that, it is merely a temperament test. What people do after that is their own decision but SchH gives people a platform to start on and without it we wouldn't have the great working dogs we do today in any arena. Anyway, we have gone way off topic here. All I wanted to know from Bobby the Samoyed was what kind of dogs he was referring to, as the ones in the kennel he mentioned he liked were littered with sportdog titles....

If you are referring to dogs that shake a sleeve, potentially yes. Poor training can result in shaking but generally those types of dogs are the same that shift and growl when being driven on the sleeve or even pop off or dont close their mouths during a courage test and fly off the sleeve. I have seen this many times over with Dobes and Mals. Generally, these types of dogs won't bite with a full solid calm grip (that wasnt a breed specific comment btw) as genetically they can't handle the pressure.

Don't misinterpret what I am saying. There are many components to a dog biting, the actual bite itself being one of them. Dogs are prey animals and like all prey animals, for the bite to be full, calm and solid the bite itself must be in prey drive. This has been well documented for many years in the animal world and as I said, nature governs this not anyones opinion. Your example has nothing to do with what drive the dog is in. Bouncing off a sleeve etc.. is generally a genetic nerve strength issue, along with chewing (shifting on the sleeve) or dropping off the sleeve when being driven. You can have a dog with the highest degree of prey drive chew or drop off a sleeve if the genetic nerve isnt strong enough to handle the pressure of a good drive.

Yes, the type of dog where you wave a toy at their face in an animated fashion and all you get back is a very quiet, hard look of 'are you kidding me ...' aaaand then just back away slowly You guys forget that dogs are supposed to be high prey animals....... If it's not there then something is genetically missing from the dog.

Don't forget that KNPV is also a sport, just like ring "sport" or any other alternative dog sport. There are good dogs and bad dogs in all but the key difference between those and SchH is that SchH is the internationally recognised temperament test. There are different rules for different sports and re-engaging decoy's, shoulder or leg bites is just training. Bite suits are just an extension of the sleeve and high prey dogs can sail through these sports as well..... It's all in the development of the dog............ Re: "nice solid grip too even in pure prey". All solid full calm grips are in prey drive. There can be other components before the bite but for it to be full, calm and solid nature says the dog must be in prey drive.

Before training for protection was banned/restricted to the point of suffocation, there were some really good training orgs who instructed in that field. I found the dogs involved in protection training were actually VERY sound and certainly far from unstable. Dogs without the right nerve and disposition were rejected as candidates for protection training. Maybe what you're seeing Yesmaam, is the result of poxy training, rather than protection training as it should be? Probably talking about security dogs in the private sector, they often like sharp fear aggressive dogs then they don't have to train them to look intimidating? Spot on. Erny, as you know, the term "protection training" is quite broad. I was referring to (p)ersonal (p)rotection training as mentioned by Booby the Samoyed which is conducted by the private sector. Not sure of any organisations that train dogs in PP though.

Oh yeah, thats what im talking bout ;) !! Beychief has a bitch for Izilop lines :D I think Beychief's are primarily working/showline mixes aren't they? Primarily SL, some WL on her website.

Aidan2, there is a difference between a dog bred for shutzhund, and a dog for PP. Sport dogs have very high prey drives. While for PP, you would be looking at a dog with moderate prey drive but also civilian drive. The ratio most PP handlers look for is a ratio of 60/40 with the 60% being civilian drive. Ofcourse the ratio differs between handlers but you get my idea. If you dont agree i would love to hear your opinion on this issue :) Robbie Not really, I have no idea what you mean... My "sport" dog has plenty of prey and "civil" drive (as you call it). I have never heard of a ratio when referring to drives, I didn't know you could breed ratio/ numbers into dogs. You mentioned Czech dogs - The Czech dogs here in OZ are Schutzhund titled dogs or have been bred from Schutzhund titled dogs......... Sport dogs.......... You can get a SchH 3 dog, awesome at doing the circuit he has been taught to do a thousand times. Bring him into a real life situation, where some guy is mugging you on the street thats where i would want the dog to react. The SchH test was originally brought out to show the strengths of the dog. And im sure on a world class level those titles still represent exactly that. These dogs are titled...No thanks you can have them. yes yes very good, we all know the showline dogs are rubbish. BTW, schutzhund is a temperament test designed to not only showcase strengths but also weaknesses. It is merely a platform where dogs can be evaluated. Some are better suited for sport while others can make good service dogs (not bad for a herding dog...). Re "Bring him into a real life situation etc"........ Here we go! Maybe you should join that Specialist Canine Forum....... My experience with PP dogs is that for the most they are generally unstable, much like their owners..... Most wouldn't cut it on the Schutzhund field because they are not good enough, generally reactive and bite out of fear. I would love to hear what breeding of Czech dogs you like. If I was a betting person I would bet that the pedigree would be littered with SchH titles .....