Purple Julie

Hey, Steve, did you see my post on page 10, towards the bottom? You might have missed it, as page 11 started soon afterwards. Sorry, LL. I have a lot of things I'd like to talk to you about.

I am no expert, and I'm sure that K9 can advise you better than me, but I'm sure I've read that it is best not to play and make a fuss of your dog in the 15 or so minutes before you go out, and the first 15 minutes when you get back, and also not to feed him within that timeframe either. Apparently if you do that it makes the dog desparately long for you to come home so that it can have more of all the good things.

Right, some more thoughts from me. Haven: Wondering if dogs do agility in drive, or if it is simply compliance/obedience, what does k9 think? Haven, what does 'tramping around playing GIJoe' consist of? K9: she may have alos been in avoidance... Ah, yes, I forgot about avoidance!! Now, it would be easy to blur the lines between avoidance and neutralisation wouldn't it? Like someone who knows about avoidance but hasn't read this post, who sees one of your dogs ignore something, could mistake that for avoidance. Am I right in saying that neutralisation doesn't equal avoidance (drive). Ok, so poo and nerves is slightly off topic, but seeing as it has been brought up, I have a question about Jyra's toilet behaviour. Jyra pretty much ONLY does her business at home unless she's desparate, and she can hold on a long time! To illustrate, at the k9force workshop in May, Jyra did not go until she got home and we were out all day. Does that indicate anything about nerves or is it simply Jyra's personal preference for the privacy of the back yard? What does the circling indicate? My grandma's boy dog did that when he did a poo out on a walk, but when Jyra does her poos in the back yard, she just goes straight into out without circling. What does that indicate about nerves? Lastly, I'm not sure whether this is a nerves or a habit thing, but often Jyra likes to be escorted outside when she goes to do her business, especially at night time. We can't just open the door and off she'll go (unless she's busting), because she'll just come right back to the door, we have to go out with her (which is a pain when it's raining!). This could just be what Jyra perceives as required routine or something, as when Jyra was 11months to 16months, I lived above a shop and always had to go outside with her and couldn't just open a door and let her out. Bring it on!! This is what I think I need! Ok, so Jyra has pretty good control with the ball, but I don't think I have managed to get it to the same value as the lure at lure coursing (which she has never had the reward of catching, you would think that if she doesn't get the reward of catching it the value of it would decrease). When Jyra is watching Stamp retrieve or when she is waiting for her turn at lure coursing, is when I would like some more control without reducing her drive. Jyra won't hold a sit stay and she'll bark and carry on very silly. When watching the lure coursing, she'll try to run too. The question is, is this a drive issue, or a frustration issue or both? Like with Stamp, is it just that Jyra wants to join in the fun, or is it that she wants to fulfil prey drive? When I am playing with the ball, when I hold it still, Jyra will sit straight away without being told to and wait for me to release it and she is focussed on the ball when she does this. But this is not happening when she sees other dogs chasing things. Do I need to get the value of the ball higher still? Like so that she wants it more than chasing a lure or any other moving object?

FINALLY! Finished reading through all the posts in this thread! Gee, a lot happens when you don't come here for two days! Haven, how does Loki react to birds? Does he chase them? I'm sure I read a post you wrote one time saying that you had found one thing that he does like, just curious, what is that? Steve, K9, I'm wondering how you control flies and birds with relation to your dogs. Obviously we can't control flies and birds, and the dog can self-satisfy its prey drive to a degree by chasing them, and you don't want that, so what do you do with birds and flies? Jyra will chase flies constantly for hours (literally!) given the chance, she will just pace up and down this one spot, going back and forth and then has a mad dash at a fly she has seen. I find it quite entertaining actually! Better than watching TV. The other thing with regards to other dogs what you said, I found quite interesting. I have found that if Jyra doesn't react aggressively to a dog, the two dogs will sniff each other and then ignore each other. A lot of the time Jyra is interested in going to other dogs to check them out, but at the pet expo I was at recently, Jyra walked straight past other dogs without an interest at all. So, I'm not exactly sure where she's at, being sometimes interested and sometimes not. I do find it interesting that the dogs will often sniff each other and then ignore each other, what is behind that? It's certainly not neutralisation training on my part, and probably not the other owner's part either. This has been an interesting thread. Edit: Mistakes

Jyra will probably be fine without a crate or pen, but if it is a warm day, I might like her to be in one when we go out for lunch, if there are any free! Rather than having her in a hot car waiting for me. So, can I reserve one for lunchtime? She can share with Pepper, ha ha ha, evil laugh!! No, not share with Pepper!

I think you would really benefit from bringing Loki along, but the decision is up to you. Do what you think is best. I think Jyra must be the opposite of Loki! She is drived up to the max (in my opinion, however Steve might say that she could be drived up even more), as I'm sure you've seen with her and the ball at training.

I'll be taking Jyra with me.

I'M IN!! WOOHOO!! Oh, gosh, I am so lucky!! I thought I was going to miss out. I'm so glad that I'm in!! Lots and lots of thanks to Steve.

Jyra used to do this too, at her mother's house in particular. I call it 'digging in the water'. One day, I bought her a large plastic bowl for her water and the first day that I gave it to her and went to work, she had destroyed by the time I came home. Boy was I mad at her!! I ended up buying a stainless steel pot from the op shop (like a stock pot, two short handles on each side, not one long handle) and it is indestructable, and Jyra doesn't dig in it, maybe because it is too small for her to dig in, although it is a large pot. I have a toddler's paddling pool too, but for some reason Jyra doesn't play in it, although she loves swimming and playing with the hose. I just discvered the other day at the herding workshop, that Jyra's digging in water habit has not stopped!! She decided to dig in water bowls there! They are the same as what was at her mother's house. I would recommend that you follow the above suggestions, plus my additional recommendation is to get a stainless steel pot or something similar (casserole dish maybe?) from an op shop and see if that makes a difference. Make sure that it's diameter is not too big though. Jyra's bowl would probably be about 20cm in diameter (an estimate).

Here is a site that has a lot of information about herding: http://www.herdingontheweb.com

Thanks Sky for your pictures. All this thinking about rakes and dogs got me dreaming in my sleep! I dreamt that a dog was attacking me, and I was using a rake to try to get it off!! Dear goodness!! I am wondering if there's anything I can do at home to work on herding. I guess it's a bit hard to herd without sheep though!! I also agree with the others about feeling useless and uncertain of what to do at times. I still have a lot to learn! The drive out to Tullamarine is fairly far for me too, and it takes longer when you get lost a couple of times too!

You shouldn't have too much to worry about. David is pretty good. He had us introduce the dogs to the sheep on lead firstly before letting them off lead in the small pens. If you wanted you could have a muzzle on hand. When Jyra was herding in the big paddock, she singled out one sheep and went chasing after it, so they sent Rosie out to help bring the sheep and Jyra back. They'll do their best make sure nothing bad happens.

Ok, LAST one, Banjo watching:

Reilly and Banjo:

Some other pics. Reilly:

Jyra tonight, all worn out:

Now for a few of Jyra herding:

Jyra and Banjo enjoying herding as a spectator sport too:

The Australian Shepherd (whose name I have forgotten, starts with a G I think)

Here's one of Banjo:

This is what Jyra spent half the day doing:

Jyra loved the herding and is totally worn out. David said that next time the dogs see the sheep (dogs like Reilly, Banjo, the kelpie, etc), they might click more and be even better motivated. Now, I just got thinking, what does that mean for Jyra? Gosh she was a handful and a half just waiting to get in to the sheep, what's she going to be like next time?? Here's another picture of Reilly with the sheep: