moosmum

As an example, this time last year you could expect to find between 2 and 3 thousand adds on Gumtree in N.S.W alone. Now its pretty much between 3 and 4 hundred.

Prices have also sky rocketed due to covid. People who who are now home more, lockdowns or working from home etc. has made many who previously weren't interested to now want a dog.Same thing happening overseas, apparently. I expect there will be a lot of re-homes coming up, followed by unplanned litters. A price crash on the way and and shelters will be over run Prices seem to be easing tho' very slowly as those willing to pay the inflated prices dry up. (adds are on a bit longer for some)

Bernese?

I agree with the sentiment of treating others as you would wish to be treated. I don't agree with politicising race. It does the same thing in characterising a human condition by some thing beyond the condition itself. Causes the problem its claiming to combat. By making it part of an entity divided from its environment by its characterisation. To be accepted as part of that entity, I have to agree to my oppression and division from my human environment. My marginalisation. a person has to agree to the characterisation regardless of external conditions they may face individually. ie. I find it very patronising to be considered part of an oppressed miniority who is owed extra help, because what I was born with can not possibly be good enough to be equal without that. And if I dissent from that identification, I am no longer a valid representative of my own conditions. So will be marginalised. What would have been the reaction if I had stood up?! If black, Not representative of the accepted narative or characterisation and marginalised for that!. If white, held up as an example of racism for refusing to recognise my privilege. Further marginalised either way. Theres no unity or equality in that. Ever.t The differences are insurmountable. Racism doesn't combat racism. It breeds it under the guise of virtue. My character can not be defined by any single condition I have. I deal with a diversity conditions. Far too many for anyone to define what I am by any one of them. If the word Woman for instance, comes to include the oppression of women in how its used, doesn't that change the way I'm going to be seen and treated? Rather oppressive to my mind, to be viewed as an object deserving of sympathy and 'special' treatment. Ahh the bigotry of low expectation. Its not just language. Its encompasses reality and physics in order to express them, and instruct, so that we can respond. If there is going to be a human identity worth working for, its conditions have to be recognised for what they are. What they are Not, is irrelevant!

Not at all. But characterising a breeder by anything other than the purpose or action of a breeder ( breeds dogs) will guarantee that at some point in time, sooner or later they will be seen that way. Because its the only resource an identity has to maintain the margins or lines drawn by its characterisation. Its inevitable in the face of external conditions that must be met, once a characterisation or identity is agreed. It shifts responsibility from meeting the needs of an environment that will be supportive and accepting of breeders, to maintainance of the characterisation, or breeder identity. We no longer consider ourselves part of the environment or world we are given. We've drawn a different, smaller margin to distinguish ourselves as part of something 'better" than that.We are not.We are all part of it. We are it. Responsible for its conditions and what they might come to support.

It would be a mistake. The same one made originally by the Kennel club and ANKC. A dog breeder is some one who breeds dogs. Full stop. Its not an 'Identity'. Its a practice. A thing people do. A direction. To a purpose. The purpose and the value is a Dog. To define a breeder by any other measure than breeding dogs implies an inherent 'character' or identity to what is an activity. That can't be done with out limiting and defining the conditions able to support that activity. Endlessly. Because an identity has inherent characteristics that must remain stable in an unstable environment to be recognisable. And is in entropy because of that. An identity has margins it can't step beyond or include. Trying to characterise breeders is the mistake the Kennel club made, and that has been 'inherited by ANKC. As long as there are breeders there will be good and bad. Like Sandgrubber, I think the difference is a good breeders purpose is to the dogs they produce. A poor breeders purpose is to some thing else. A different value. Money, prestige etc. An idea from another thread to put it another way.... A good breeder should aim for a dog able to live as close to its own physical and mental 'nature' as it can to be accepted with open arms. To offer not just whats acceptable, but sought after, by its own nature . In the world we have now. Not the world you demand or think they deserve.

An extension of the same is the 'solution' of spey and neuter to address welfare problems like dogs ending up in pounds and rescue or poorly bred. If the problem is that dogs can procreate, there is only one way that can end. So why do we treat that as the source of the problem? I am looking for a dog. Found a pup in rescue that sounded promising but pounds and rescue are not a source I can access- because I choose to decide if and when a dog I am responsible for will be rendered sterile. And my fences are not 6 foot colour bond. My dogs do not leave the yard with out me, or wander. They are trained. I do not have unwanted or uncalled for litters. They are managed. Entire or sterile can have bearing on their effectiveness and reliability to their purpose that only I am in a position to assess, based on the dog in front of me. How do you assess an immature pups fitness, abilities or potential with out testing those things in the environment it will live in? What is that making of the dogs that do go on to breed? What and whos environment are they being assessed for? Again, it seems the 'design' of the dog takes precedence, not reliability or effectiveness of the dog. Not its ability of response or value to the environments it might live in. I don't think most breeders, let alone the general public have a clue what potential is being lost. Or what has already gone...... they have never seen it and we can only base our expectations on what we know. The blurb on the pup I thought interesting mentioned his potential with the right handler- Seems he doesn't have much after all if those qualities could not possibly be worth expanding on in the right hands, and he can't be expected to learn boundaries. They should have said 'Great potential, but limited to our low expectations of anyones ability to bring it out..

Buyer beware on any pup purchase. Cross breeding (or purchase) is not the issue, care taken is.

If the dog is trained to find the tangible source of the scent, then retreating from it is counter intuitive. On the other hand, the dog could be trained to scent for a secondary objective, or intuit that on its own. ie 'home' or last place of encampment. A place, rather than a mobile subject. Or going back to refresh. A bit more abstract. I teach 'home' so think it could be done, but doubt the concept is deliberately translated into tracking for dogs that are more almost always asked to find the emitter, from the last known place of encampment.

Possible, but very unlikely. it would be counter intuitive to train and would likely cause a lot of confusion in the dog and handlers communication/confidence in each other. It would likely need a dog trained to work only to track in reverse, and not whats generally required. So possible, but highly improbable. IMO

They also hear stories of 'how unethical ' it all is re; pedigrees too. If thats what you put out there, thats what will be returned. They will see what is making owners happy, and emulate that. If they don't see pure breeds doing it they have no reason to look. But they have to be there, seen. Representing pet/domestic dogs as well as anything else. They give crap about how hard it is to get a dog. So how 'unethical' all breeders are, and puppy farms are at least among the most regulated. .

As for 'elitism', Its been the main driver for the changes harming Breeders today. The elitism people refer to is the refusal to recognise a breeder who does not conform to your ideals. Its presented by those people who see fault in my position, with out any effort to understand what my goals, methods, precautions and purpose are. Or to consider any real value in the results given by such a breeder. The elitist says "Thats not a breeder" so gives it an "other" name. Elitism is the dismissal or discrediting of a breeder based on their position. Where they stand-ie: In a pedigree environment, or else where. Surely you must see that discrediting BYBers or Commercial breeders or any other group you want to distance, because some fail miserably, can only set up your own downfall.Because you are saying a group is judged by its failures. Not an individual. That removes individual responsibility. And there will be failures in your group. You will be judged on those as a group. As is promoted. Any wonder then when people think research to buy a dog means look into the 'breed' standard and know the breeders affiliation? Why people fail to research the breeder? Or the dog? If you say affiliation decides value, thats all we should need to understand. The breed as a collective, and the collective affiliate of the breeder.

The moo did this while she was young, and yes, we did cure it. The brain games have always been our 1st solution. (expect more, not less?) I did use an umbrella at times to prevent the jumping. In Moos case I think she liked to sniff our ears on greeting, So going to her level before she could do that helped, if she wasn't too over thee top to begin with. A growly sounding Aht ! on jumping. I figured do what her mother/older dogs would do. Also, if she did not stop at 1st warning her access to us was cut short. Go back in for a bit then try again. These fixed the problem for us.

For the 1st time in 50 years I find myself dogless. Oh, I have Goose. His purpose is different though to what I need. He is much too small and hasn't got the traits I need for 'the big jobs'. Live stock protection, home and hiking companion, childrens playmate/guardian, and personal assistant! Hard enough to find such dogs in normal times, especially when they must be capable of 'responsible' personal protection as well. By that I mean safe even in a crowded party. Will act. Confidently. But in clear language, with least force and wait for instruction. Almost a therapy dog. I don't stress over what I might miss while my focus is on other things, or I sleep. Active athleticism and health are essential for my purpose. Its what I grew up with. Its possible. Its what comes of centuries of people breeding for their own purposes and situations. For their own needs, in their own back yards. But we have got ourselves side tracked on to this idea of a design for dogs as shortcut to function. Almost like people think " If form follows function, then we perfect the form we believe works best, ability to perform must follow. But it can't. Its an evolutionary rule that form follows function. Purpose.. Only now the function is to conform to a design. And any purpose is subject to that. The so called "designer dogs" are a direct result of that influence. If a breeders purpose is to uphold a standard, thats as good a purpose as any while there is a place for it. BUT. If every person who breeds dogs is expected to incorporate that same purpose, Before they are recognised as legitimate, then purpose is lost altogether. Because Conditions come before response. The environment of dog breeders retracts to those design conditions. Not what I need in my backyard. I grew up with a dog that lived my ideal. It took me 15 years to find it again, because I didn't appreciate how rare it was becoming. This is the response-ability to environment that gave us breeds -recognisable to the purpose served in their specific environments. It took another 7 years of more focused search to find others that met MY standards. If pedigree dogs can meet them, I'd love to know where. If they can't, and I find what I need else where, No one has the right to even imply Its some how less than responsible to try and make that available to my children and grand children who have also grown up with these high expectations. Its not irresponsible to understand your own needs and the traits/qualities needed to achieve them. Its irresponsible to insist that your purpose/standards in breeding dogs must be universal. Its irresponsible to say the conditions that gave you a pedigree dog over- ride the conditions that give me, what works for me. Because with out the experience, I would not have these expectations of a dog or an understanding of what makes it work. The expectations of your environment are not the ones I live with. So it is irresponsible to discredit my experience or my dogs and irresponsible to limit experience. It would be more responsible to ensure people understand their own purpose in getting a dog, Whats required and how to make it work as best you can. It creates experience that is more valued, and that creates higher expectations. Possibilities and direction come from expectation.. Where you can go. The 'form' of breeders also follows function. Purpose. Breed Standards can work, very well. They are environmental conditions, set up to benefit breeders whos purpose is to a continuous design. They can't be THE purpose for dogs, and still have a dog that evolves as part of a whole human community. Its no longer a 'domestic dog'. Its environmental demands lie in another, separate direction. A fixed condition! Direction can only be into "itself". Thats not a direction, its a position. Pedigrees can only work if they are seen as ' a purpose' in a range of purpose. Not the only legitimate direction a breeder can take for validation. Value is for the environment to judge and decide, not for the subject.

YES!

She was very patient with my getting her to stand or down while getting the shot.

more. Moss was 7/8 yrs in this and the one just below.

Dear Mossy Moo, Nearly a year has gone since Moss suddenly passed at 12 years old. Sounds like a good run to some, but not for The Moo, who I thought would make 16 easily. Even the vet on her last visit thought she was the healthiest 12 yr old she had seen and doubted her age, saying she looked great to her, though I had noticed a slow down, not her usual appetite. it was a very aggressive fast and untreatable cancer. Not even grey, just a coat not quite as bright anymore. Still leaping the fences and streaking around. Offered my pick of 14 6 week old pups, I looked for a girl actively seeking to bond and She found me, claimed me, and would not allow another to try. A scrawny little dot beside her mentor Lou at home. Clumsy and demanding, she out grew her clumsiness to be the best dog athlete I had known, but by 6 months My O.H was saying 'Rehome! She will never make a farm dog!" I considered it, but decided we were her best hope and home because The Moo WAS Bossy. Domineering, could enjoy a fight and hyperactive, super high and complete prey drive, she would have excelled at security work, but not with multiple handlers and new homes because she needed that special bond with a single handler. Not a breed now recognised as a suitable security candidate. excellent body awarness and incredible agility, bouncing off walls or leaping into trees. Moo was good with other dogs.......IF they accepted her dominance. Moss liked to make things happen. But she tried, so hard to please. 'She tries' was a catch phrase in the early days, when the simple phrase "Good girl!" would send her into a frenzie of uncontrolled excitement and bad behaviour. Leerburg was invaluable. Other dogs toys were stolen and buried. Goose was picked up by the collar and swung like a pendulum. bottles were banned in the house after being bounced off the walls so fast it sounded like fire works and the windows were at risk. Then squeaky toys for emitting unending wails instead. Moss was our Yucky girl. The lovable Psycho. 1/2 Doberman, Rotty and a lot of unknown, I some times think there may have been a little Dingo there. Moss was an accomplished and deadly hunter. Magpies in the kennel, rodents 'round the farm, and a habit of finding or flushing prey on the shortest walks. She would have had no trouble feeding herself. (Oh is that a.....Never mind, its gone now and we will never know) Yet she loved the cat we brought home and guarded him from the curiosity of all other dogs for 3 days. She lived with free range chooks with never an accident.....3 gone deliberately after she saw me have minor run ins with them. Moss was unforgiving of any one who challenged her bosses. We could guard the chook who transgressed and she would seem to forget, but only until we relaxed our guard.Then it was gone in an instant. Always the one who challenged her boss. The Moo taught us a lot and became the best trained dog on the place. A training session was the best cure when Moo forgot her impulse control and was impressive to watch with her responses so crisp and snappy it looked like sarcasm. Moo didn't just sit, she slapped her paws on the ground. She didn't lay down, she slammed her body down. We learned that we had to guard our emotions. Moo would pick upon them and act on them.It wasn't good enough to pretend to like a person, you had to feel it too or you would have the Moo growl or bark and jump between you and that person moving suddenly towards you. Yet never a snap and wonderful with children. She and her mum had extreme bonds to their people. I appreciated it most the time we were looking after her Mum for a few months. They were kept separate, both very jealous of their place as 2nd in command. I was home alone and indoors with a total of 5 dogs when Moo managed to jump from her yard and wandered in to see.... THAT bitch! and it was on.. I grabbed Moo, because I knew she would be hardest to get under control and ended up sat on an arm chair holding her for all I was worth on my lap with the slightest move sending her struggling to free herself again and my foot pressed against her mothers chest saying 'back! Back! as she waited for that false move to pounce again. They were eye to eye, inches apart and me hauling back and pushing forward at once. The older girl backed. Very slowly. I managed to get Moo across the room, her mum 4 ft back all the way. Out the door then into the other kennel while I shook! Visitors often commented that "She is very friendly". Easier to agree than explain no, she was very naughty! If she wasn't watched, she would drink from their glass or climb on their laps to sniff ears, knowing very well she was being disrespectful and enjoying it. Moo didn't mooch for food , she would scold us very vocally for not sharing, but would not steal. Moo was a forceful presence, an event whos purpose in life was to enforce her boss's dominion over all. We miss our one in a million 'farm dog after all'. Our grinning streak of lightning, the lovable Psycho whos presence you could not afford to forget. I don't know that rest in peace is what she would want. Go in passionate Joy Moss. We loved you as fiercely.

So sorry for your loss.I have been following your journey with Kane and so sad for his passing so young. Re the grief, I'm an old hand but it doesn't get easier. When its sudden like that, it puts you into shock. long ago I gave myself permission to be a wreak until I'm not. I was just thinking I am ready to write a eulogy for The Moo near a year after her sudden loss and 8 days ago lost my other girl suddenly too. Shock and anger for 2 days, then reality hit and I am a mess. Crying with you in heartfelt sympathy. Not alright, but we will get there.

As well, if you are going to rely on a single 'standard' of inheritance, you are only decreasing modes of inheritance- For that trait and others that were not considered by doing so.

You don't see that there is no difference. This forum is not for the public only because this one eyed collective refuses to recognise all perspectives are valid, and representative. Its easier to dismiss people than work to give them a more complete perspective. Or take one away. This forum is for breeders and dog fanciers because thats all you are left with. The only ones who get any value from staying. This collective won't work with anything they see as less. Selecting the conditions of your environment, by cutting out the bits that don't match your ideology of what you think it should look like, and ignoring the reality of what it is. The Dol identity often struggles to believe they are some thing more, or 'other' than the public space they're given. Some thing distinct from it, isn't very public.. It doesn't hurt you to accept and wrap your head around other perspectives. You don't have to agree with them. Only try to understand where they come from because you have no hope of changing what they are until you understand them.. Dog breeders and fanciers are either a part of their human community/environment, taking responsibility to further their own particular perspectives of value there, or they are something other, with different responsibilities. Responsible to another identity.

'Cos you get what you give

No, These forums are for Dog Fanciers. Who want to discuss dogs and learn. The 'Public' don't generally last long here. Breeders won't change the public, if thats your answer. These are some of the perceptions you do have to deal with. There are 3 choices. Surrender: and have no effect either way on the out come. Accept: and look for how you can change the perception. Because until you can, theres no communication happening. Or, Reject: as invalid, and not worth communicating with. Kinda how we got here. Perceptions are supposed to vary, its called diversity and it allows more effective responses..... In easy language, If humans or breeders (pick your identity) all have to see things from only one unified perspective to be accepted, they're all going to be looking at the same cloud as they step into the rabbit hole.