moosmum

This, this and this again. Why is it in this society the person who is the total tool and the person actually casuing the problem doesn't get their backside hauled over the coals?????? The person who is dumping the dog is the problem. I have entire dogs, they don't roam or fight or pump out puppies. I even have entire dogs of the opposite sex and still can keep them from pumping out puppies - funny that is is called being in control of your dogs and their behaviour. Do something about the people who dump their dogs/puppies and the problem will be fixed. Euthanasia would be the prefered option but for some reason the Human rights mob don't seem to like that. It also amazes me how the leaders and spoke's people for apparent animals rights groups and the otehr loonies out there want to breed out completely the animals they supposedly care about. Me thinks they are in the wrong job! Yep,Infuriating isn't it? I know of one young woman with 2 kids who is responsible for at least 10 of the "dumps" at our local pound in the last 4 years.She gets a cute little pupy for the kids to "play" with (the oldest 3 yo) and dumps it when the poor little mites are ruined for any normal life after being kicked and squashed and terrorised.She dumped a litter with their mum when she had her 1st child. If point of sale miocrochipping and rego. was enforced,there would be tool for authorities to see whats happening and act. As it is,any complaint investigated can only "get" her on having un chipped dog and no rego. Euthanasia sounds good to me too.

Met one of those yet? Don't hold your breath. *Yep,I'm one. And as for the good old fashioned pet show? Why on earth would the ANKC want to organise one. They already allow neuters to compete and frankly my guess is they've got enough battles on their hands protecting the interests of PAYING members - and they include owners of crossbred Associate dogs. *so start an appendix registry,lots of fees,lots of people looking into pure breds and what they mean,lots of chance to educate people to better ways,incentive for some of the more unethical breeders to lift their game and LOTS more learning to look at the big picture. Little old ladies and 15 year old boys can be seen in the ring at ANKC dog shows on any weekend you choose. *Not the ones you need to reach.Some one has to offer an olive branch,and I don't see any one else in a position to do so. Yep,I'm one.Trouble is,no one can say that here and no one else who can speak for you can either.

There is nothing inherently wrong about deliberatlely breeding cross breds.Its when its not a well informed decision,with the breeder willing to take responsibility for the results,and for the quality of life they will live that causes problems in any part of the dog world.

I agree however, we worked pretty hard to get our members equal benefits as the ANKC - we didn't set the system up and until recently there was only one group who could get any exemptions if they were ever on the table. It only means that the group agrees to police their members which theoretically lets the people who are supposed to be policing it need to take a lesser look at them. In an ideal world it wouldn't be so bloody over regulated and there would be no need to beg for exemptions. They justify it by saying its less administration for members of one of the groups which are exempt from the fees. It doesn't mean they are exempt from having to follow the same laws as everyone else - just means they get a reduction in council fees. There is no statement that one group is better just that one group is promising to police their members and so get a reduction in fees. And theres no blame in that.I'd have done the same in your shoes. I guess what gets to me most is that there is no other group in a better position to improve the lot of ALL dogs and breeders/interests.For the most part they choose to distance themselves.Dog shows are not a welcome place for any who want to say anthing positive about their own dog,unless its also a pedigree,same as DOL. Yet the majority of dog owners have cross breds,be they working cross,D.D, back yard accidents,Aunty Socials cute terrier cross.If they could just put some the "dogma" aside long enough to connect with these people as dog lovers,so much more could be acheived.Instead the focus is always on what they don't know,the irresponsibility and lack of planning etc..Very patronising for people who are quite happy with what the've got. Some good ald fashioned community pet shows,where any old mutt can have a category against the world champion Guatamalan dog of splendour.Allow little old pensioners and 15 year old boys with their dogs to rub shoulders with Brazillian Lizard Hounds.That might start the ball rolling.

Buts its very counter productive to keep saying"one group of breeders' stands out as a better example in all these arguments. Why do they stand out? Because they have a community of people they work, with,consult with,compete against,peer pressure and readily available information.Thats what enables them to stand out,and what stands in the way of many other dog interest groups. With every new bit of legislation,dogs are further removed as a "community" interest and pushed further out of the community.Becoming unknown and unpredictable to any one who hasn't owned one....Leading to more intolerance and mismanagement.And finger pointing.And legislation ultimately. We need unity in the dog world. Any welfare aimed at preserving dogs a place in society needs to engage that society,not issolate it. Learn to celebrate dogs as a community and encourage family oriented events where ALL dogs are welcome and theres an incentive to learn from each other. When breeders say "But we are better and should be exempt" they issolate themselves and can teach no one.On top of that,they create resentment. They miss out on other points of view that are no less valid and help to keep the the dog community divided and themselves on their own,with ever dwindling numbers. All sectors are under attack and registered breeders in general are just as happy to see that as long as they get exemptions,because they have set themselves apart as better.Should dog owner ship,and breeding become near impossible for Joe public,pedigree breeders will be more issolated than they ever dreamed. Every sector can has lots of room for improvement,including pedigree breeders,and every sector can learn from the other,but theres no community or common ground in dog ownership for that to happen. Untill there is,no ones going to HAVE the broader view needed for change.

I am working on a submission now.

The O.P was not taken as an indictment of working dog breeders,or others,but some of the responses to the O.P are taking that attitude.You asked for thoughts,I've stated mine. The attitude shown by some posters serves the prejudice. P.S,good post Mita.

This. Stereo typing and generalisation works both ways. I produce working dogs.Cross bred and unregistered.Many are excelling in their field,which is one neglected by many breeders and I know of no other specialising for their qualities. I breed for a demand,not often.I have a waiting list for pups,many repeat buyers and often those willing to take older dogs.I do things to ensure the best of homes that many registered breeders only pay lip service to.I have great admiration for pedigree breeders who work towards producing the best dogs possible,but they aren't able to produce dogs that will do the job my own can,with the degree of reliability my own can.If they did,I would not be doing this. I hardly think all pedigree breeders are snobs.I would have prefered to be among their ranks,or just able to reliably buy from them.Instead,there is a lot of vilification and broad generalised false hoods tolerated or encouraged on DOL that reinforces the idea of pedigree breeders being snobs.Usually from just a few but when no defence is tolerated or even permitted,your going to get fall out.

The Australian Working Dog action Plan is a govt.initiative tasked with advising on up to date welfare stragies. One of their proposals is a research body able to disseminate info.on latest research to relevent stakeholders. I am drafting a letter to the principle researcher asking that an independent(ie: not affiliated with local/govt.R.S.P.C.A or any other stakeholder)"dogs advocate" be included in any such research body. My idea would be that this advocate could intervene where legislation or local by laws directly affect welfare out comes for our dogs. BSL is one example,But I know there are many other examples where R.S.P.C.A or local councill rulings have have been grossly unjust and there is often no avenue of appeal or reason. I am putting this out there in the hopes that others may agree with the need for a "dogs Advocate" with such powers.If so,please write to chief researcher at [email protected]. letting them know you support this idea and how it would aid the proposed research body. The dog world is fractured with no one interest group being heard sensibly and I believe an advocate would unifie interests,point out what questions NEED asking,allow for problems to be solved at a more grass roots level,(Ie education!)and that any research body is incomplete with out a true working knowledge of the various interest groups that an advocacy would provide.

Can't think of a better way to bring about...a world full of idiots. Assume we are and legislate everything, so nothing can ever go wrong,and no one ever needs to learn anything but the rules.

She had a wonderful owner who is devastated,was so proud of her girl.well loved and yes,shes getting credit for saving the young girl. I'm proud of her.But so sad.

Just a warning that though we are into autumn,the snakes are still active.Please be alert. I have just heard of the death of one of my pups at only 5 months old.She was visiting a farm for socialisation with the animals when her owner said "she went nuts,knocking down an 11 year old girl.We didn't know what was happening till we saw she was killing a snake. I got it away from her and checked her out to find she had been bitten twice. I got her into the car and phoned the vets while I drove. She started fitting and passed away just as we finaly arrived at the vets." RIP Ziva I hate it when that happens.

Any chance of a bit of dialog on this subject? I believe any welfare solutions involving more regulation also requires an ombudman type of representaion,able to intervene on behalf of owners/dogs where breaches of welfare or council laws may be in the best interests of the dog.An avenue of appeal. A body able to note unforseen impacts,to recomend changes.Able to make recomendations for council policies that encourage responsible dog ownership and social enjoyment with out undue hardship. The dog world is horribly fractured.The voices heard loudest aren't representative of all stake holders.

In the meantime,the below thread "excersizing reactive dogs" might be useful. :)

At 55 kilos and 80 cms,Piddles. We have had Alias,a fox terrier.

I see a counter petition as essential.If no one speaks out these things are only going to gain momentum and there needs to be other sides to these debates put out there. Should state clearly why its such such a bad idea,but also put forward alternative solutions,such as better policing of policies already in place and educating the BUYERS of their responsibilities,law,and obligations. Encourage better research into where their puppy comes from, what responsible ownership means etc. Why wait for a body such as dogs N.S.W to step in,if they will. There are many interests with a stake here who would welcome a chance to dissagree,and no means to do so ATM.

Trouble is,we all are the same.Ethics aren't excluse to ANKC. As long as ANKC breeders can't see that,a broader view of ethics acceptable to all interests can't be reached. Every ones too busy trying to point the finger elsewhere and theres no Body to represent all interests equally. Whether breeders like it or not,there is a whole industry associated with dogs in the community and we are part of it. Edited to add, and affected by all legislation we ask for, or don't study very carefully and and comment on.

Thanks again for the help. Shes going. They have year to prepare and have looked into everything. They are used to traveling all over europe with dogs,and aren't put off by the protocols and they are familiar with them. Any problems getting her into the country when the time comes and she comes back to me.They don't expect to return,its a well planned retirement,and sounds like a great match. :)

Thanks Wayrod for that link, and Pretty Miss Emma. I have plenty to think about,and make sure the couple have taken into consideration. If they can satisfy me that they are well prepared for all this,I'll see. And if any problems she comes back to me. Socialisation will naturaly end up more neutralisation with this pup anyway,so mixing with dogs other than her owners 2nd small dog won't be an issue. I've only agreed to talk more if they can set my mind at rest with this information. I doubt very much they will have any behavioural problems. :)

Dogs wander around the place, most in poor condition. Whether the dog gets socialised would depend on whether the people have friends with dogs they could socialise with. You wouldn't want your dog socialising with the village dogs, you would really want your dog to ignore them. While they could walk a dog on the street there on a lead, unless they owned property it wouldn't get the same opportunity for off-lead exercise. Thanks Greytmate, The people sound lovely and reasonably financial,but slightly complicated by being an older couple. Might give it a miss.This dog could also be a target by the sound of things. I'd rather be safe than sorry! I doubt whether the dog would need to go into quarantine on arrival as most countries accept animals from Australia without quarantine. Bringing them back here is different. Vanuatu is a very divided society, not everyone there values dogs highly or keeps them contained. There is very little in the way of public infrastructure, and so the quality of the dog's life would depend a lot on the financial situation and attitude of the owner. If there were behaviour or complicated vet problems with the dog, I'm not sure what help they could get.

Has anyone any knowledge of Vanuatu with regards to dogs? I need to know if it is a dog friendly place,and how long quarantine would be for dogs. There is a couple enquiring about a pup who intend to move there. She is a huge dog who will need a chance to socialise and exersise.I wouldn't like to allow her to go if she will be quarantined for long,or if her movement would restricted once there. Thanks in advance for any help offered.

Before training for protection was banned/restricted to the point of suffocation, there were some really good training orgs who instructed in that field. I found the dogs involved in protection training were actually VERY sound and certainly far from unstable. Dogs without the right nerve and disposition were rejected as candidates for protection training. Maybe what you're seeing Yesmaam, is the result of poxy training, rather than protection training as it should be? Definitely! I think the methods of training in prey drive are not so suited to a P.P dog either.I find with the right instincts,the best are the the ones who take everything in their stride,confidently alert and trained to bring out their pack drives. High prey drive I find a nuisance.

I would relax a bit too. I have working dogs and have always encouraged any interaction with willing strangers.Its taught them they are all part of the job and they can learn manners in company from the start,giving mental stimulation.Lots of bennefits as long as you direct the interaction so its positive for every one. In my dogs it serves to help "proof" them,and enables them to detect abnormal behaviour and situations later. Sorry,you guys are quicker! He will grow enough soon that it shouldn't be such an issue.

Me Neither.Free range chooks.

Thanks guys,that gives us a starting point.