moosmum

It is a smaller sample than I think is ideal, but the wording suggests breed is an unreliable predictor rather than a useless one. Not hard to believe to me. In pedigree breeding adhering to the standard in looks takes precedence over behavioral traits, many of which can be masked in a show ring setting. Unless very visibly negative, behavioral traits are more often a secondary consideration after conformation standard so I believe it only natural there would be increasing unreliability for the behavioral side. That it would 'slip'. Some generalized predictors were recognized in the study, but stereotyping is not a reliable predictor. I really don't see that can be disputed while buyers are encouraged to research not only breed, but breeders and their priorities. In working dog circles, there is a common saying; If you want a good personal protection/security Doberman, get a Mal. GSDs are also known to have traits in direct conflict with their ability to perform traditional roles Even in working strains, prey drive often takes precedence over traditional traits for the snappy responses and trainability to show/ perform well in a ring setting, though that be ring sports. And its commonly recognized that dogs very successful in ring sports don't reliably perform in real life scenarios- they are not 'protecting', they are looking for reward from the sleeve. The performance tests and training methods are ritualized enough that breeding for the rituals and not the job is affecting breeding practices and the traits rewarded through selection. A more rounded approach is less likely to achieve recognition as its judged. As in the show ring.

I hope it leads to better protection, enough to preserve their species diversity without hybridization.

Sorry you haven't had any reply. I think most of us see board and train as missing the most important step, of training the owner.

I think it can manifest that way as well, though I don't know much about it. I've never had or seen one, or known anyone who has. That doesn't give most people much reason to look it up or google the subject.

Seems the gene in Dobes is little understood and tho' some have specialized in trying produce natural Bob tails, Unless there have been advances made, the gene has been some what lethal and has not been worth the heart ache for most. Often expressing as only a kinked tail, maybe a 3/4 or more, or minus an anus. A perfect bob tail being far from the only result.

Projection, Much ? Why would you take Rebannes comment as a personal critique, instead of simply linking the relevant info? The nastiness is unwarranted.

I hope so too. We really do need something to represent the ordinary, unaffiliated dog enthusiast.

I would say its little known in Australia that Dobes can carry the bob tail gene, and to say its well known is obviously not correct.

Only on face book? I don't do that, but I'd also like to look at this more....

Hmm, I like Companions for Humanity as a name. Glad to see this started though.

And a Cow. Put the interests of many, under control of a separate, independent agenda.

Your not addressing the information given, Just discrediting the bearer

Yes, and Its good that you did. But Its also against rules to promote them. Hard for members to say anything positive, since it could be construed as promotion. I think it only fair to point that out. There would be few here, if any, actively involved in breeding cross breeds for the market. This site can't speak for them about what is or isn't available in that market. We are not representative of it. No criticism intended. Cross breeders shouldn't be the sole source of information on Pure Breeds either.

Bear this in mind. The points people are making are part of the picture, but advise would be more complete coming from those more familiar with cross breeds.

Central registration is the only option that can represent all stake holders as a unit. But not by Govt. Its a failure of current registries that Govt. has been forced to take on that role, and it will be ineffective. A government registering body gives no direction or responsibility to its membership. It does not represent its membership, only set their limitations. The term 'registered' was not misappropriated. It has a meaning that is being used entirely appropriately. I agree with Anne, that ANKC needs to change their language to avoid confusion. A 'Mongrel Pedigree' and central registering body "owned" and operated by its constituents would be far more effective tool to return Dogs to their rightful place as part of our communities, not organizations with distinct agendas and objectives. A member owned central register would be best placed to foster expectations and responsibility, with out the need for ever more restrictive legislation that is the only option without it. A Pedigree is pretty useful to breeders trying to achieve more than random dogs. Encouraging its application to Mongrels would seem a sensible way to vastly reduce the random misbegotten and encourage more thought and purpose. Instead of increasing the costs of registering entire dogs with council, it could be conditional on DNA testing for breed and health with results tied to microchip details and publicly available. Bottom line, a member owned central register is needed, to unite people under the common purpose of having Dogs in our lives, before we can properly formulate the expectations and responsibilities that come with that. It can only work though if its representative, not restrictive. Legislation does not cause responsibility, it can only limit our ability of response. Canine organizations with arbitrary objectives are the reason it can't be had without a central register now.

There is also this- Limited register serves to restrict what gets shown and bred, to what conforms most exactly to the Breed standards as written and expressed today, in the show ring. Reinforcing the existing statehood of Pedigree Dogs, not the need to redefine or discuss.

Likely the 'other' problems are what put them on the same banned list and their Brachycephaly was more incidental.... so breeders would be more inclined to take note.

Agree with the above posts, Worth mention too is that many livestock animals are considered "pure breed" after 4 to 6 generations of 'up' breeding to pure bred stock. The likelihood of traits in evidence from other breeds does drop significantly with mating to pedigree stock, but that reliability should not be expected for several generations.

Rest in peace and love, beautiful Genie. So very sorry for your loss of a beloved family member.

Agreed. What I can't agree with is that you can work effectively at prevention (as per the stated intent of the organization) when your reward and effectiveness is judged on successful prosecution. The monetary reward is not in prevention.

I don't know about other tests or their quality. Embark is available to Aussies. Postage is pretty steep.

I think its also a massive conflict of interest, for a charity formed on the stated purpose of Prevention, to then receive Government support and sanction to Punish animal cruelty. We have laws and Legal systems that should more appropriately handle matters of Justice. Accepting the responsibility of prosecutions, The Organizations success will be judged on successful prosecutions rather than Prevention of the need for them. Surely that is a massive conflict.

Nothing to feel guilty of. You sacrificed. Your feelings of loss, for her future. You will mourn her loss, but theres no guilt to that. Looking at might have beens now does not guarantee them, and with her, may have been put out of your reach anyway. Dealing with her issues to your changed circumstances would have been that stressful to you both. When I was in my early teens I found a lovely collie type cross I named and fed, hoping my parents would eventually notice her and let me keep her. I had her 2 weeks when she went missing. I looked for her at the local High school where I'd 1st found her after hours. 2 kids came out with her on lead and asked was I her owner as they were there with their parents looking to take her home. I explained what I had to do with her and they offered me the lead several times, not wanting to take her from me since she was clearly pulling to me. I told them my parents hadn't even noticed her, I already had a dog and If they could keep her with their parents consent I preferred she went with them. I still remember her being lead away, looking back at me all the way out of sight. They seemed like lovely kids with responsible parents. She might have had the same with me, but I couldn't guarantee my parents would even allow me a second dog. I did the right thing, though I've never forgotten her. You've done the best for her.

Very similar happened to me. Sold a pup to a home that sounded great. Daughter wanted to train her own dog, family were very experience with GSDs in Ob. and breeding but had no dogs currently. Mum offered her support. Pup was picked up one afternoon and I got a call early next morning asking to return. Pup got to her new home after a 3 hour car trip and refused to settle- Not crying, just wanted to play, all night. Daughter could not handle the sleepless nite and Mum said she was more than happy to help with training, but that did not extend to taking over in those situations. Pup was returned that day with a full refund. I was happy to give it knowing pup was safe, and buyers did the right thing in returning her. I was very proud watching them lead her up our long drive behaving so well and confidently on leash and treated it as a great socialization experience for her.

I would be quite happy to look into it regardless, If I had an interest in doing so. If the class action can be separated from the dodgy doings of some its supporters, I doubt any thing less than a class action will bring the accountability and recognition of wrong doing people are asking for. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If they are too tangled.... You can't win.