Simply Grand

Yep, everywhere (except WA as posted) an additional "pet bond" is illegal. Bond can only total four weeks rent. Which doesn't go far if rent stops being paid and the eviction process has to be gone through, let alone if there is damage. And landlord's insurance will cover malicious damage but I think with some policies you would be hard pressed to argue the difference between malicious damage and wear and tear when it comes to pets. THE most important thing for a land lord when it comes to claiming costs, whether pets involved or not, is an accurate and really really comprehensive entry condition report. It's worth paying a good agent for one, or doing one yourself. Literally hundreds of photos and signed off by both landlord/agent and tenant. As a multiple pet owning tenant I wish pet bonds were legal as I'd be happy to pay, and in lieu I am happy to (and do) make any temporary modifications necessary and pay for any repairs necessary in order to have my pets not damage the owner's property. Having said all that, in this situation I'd say no too WM. I'd also ask your agent to conduct a routine inspection and take heaps of photos ASAP so that IF they happen to get a secret dog anyway you have evidence of the current condition of the house. Yes, I'm a total cynic, sorry. Real estate will do that to ya! ETA - and definitely always go with your gut!

Thanks Mjosa, that's really useful info, I'll remember it! Good news is they've found a vet nurse to care for the bubs and they are actually a little older than first thought, eyes are open and up on their feet so they should be able to lap and start eating food soon too. So heartless that someone dumped them, but hopefully they will be ok from now on.

Thanks Mjosa, sponge as in soak a sponge with Divetalact or similar and let pups suckle? (I really don't have the capacity to get involved with this but am trying to help where I can! So knowledge is power)

I've just seen on FB that Deathrow Unchained Rescue in SE Qld has a litter of 8 neonate pups dumped in a bin near Toowoomba. They are in (very) temp care but need somewhere to go, ideally with a surrogate mum, or experienced neonate carer who can bottle feed. See https://m.facebook.com/offthechaink9/ for more info

Good girl Thistle :) All forward steps are good ones! Molly surprised the heck out of me this afternoon, I was out in the back yard with her and the neighbours 1 year old entire male Buddy came up to the fence/gate between the front and back yard (he does this all the time, he's constantly out roaming and likes to visit us...part of the ongoing fun of my crazy neighbours' household). Molly seemed interested in meeting him so I took her over to the fence and she seemed to love him!! Friendly greeting, no tension, relaxed tail wag, sideways body, greeting sniffs... and even when Buddy got a bit jumpy and whiney wanting to come in and play she stayed happy. It is literally the best dog meeting I've ever seen from her! I wish they could talk so she could explain why she is ok with Buddy but not pretty much all other dogs

Oh he is gorgeous! We've just had pups come in to our foster group that look just like him, they are listed as Border Collie x Wolfhound

:laugh: I think it's probably real! There was another one floating around that did a similar thing.

There are some good fenced dog parks in Canberra, to start with I would work outside the fence with your girl and do distance work initial with rewarding her for keeping focus on you instead of the other dogs, then gradually work up to greeting dogs through the fence. Do lots of observing of the other dogs and owners as well so you learn who behaves appropriately and who would be a good match for your girl to interact with inside the park eventually. My rules for dog parks are: keep walking around with your dog/s, don't just let them wander, keep up lots of recalls and rewards so your dog is always paying attention to you, if you're unsure at all about a situation call your dog away asap - better safe than sorry, don't let your dog get in the middle of groups of dogs, even if they're playing it can turn ugly fast, and don't let your dog be a pain to others. A lot of people don't like dog parks at all, which is totally understandable, things can definitely go wrong but Canberra is a tough place to meet people but I always found a good regular community would build up at the dog park :)

I think I've probably undone all our good work this week, being busy and distracted I've not once but twice done a stupid slip and ended up first a Molly vs Quinn fight (fortunately Quinn in crate so they couldn't get hold of each other really but someone drew blood from someone) then, running late this morning and needing to leave the house ready for an inspection, a full brawl between all four Fortunately I somehow managed to get the two girls separated, after nearly strangling Molly with her collar, and when they started listening to me the two little ones got out of range but it was scary for a minute there. Interestingly up until today I thought Molly would win in a fight but after Quinn's performance today I'm not so sure. I will try very very hard to avoid putting them to the test again. It's always been a big part of my concern thought, I know that the longer I have Molly the more the chance of these slips increases On the positive side, I do think Molly is calmer and more confident in general now, she is doing well with human strangers and is more relaxed out in public. She has been able to watch Saxon wandering around while Molly has been tied up too over the last few days so I'm hoping she can still move forward. Sigh... Wine time now!

that's perfect, well done. Those easier, "reminder" recalls each time are great because each time you're reinforcing for her that you are stull offering lots of opportunities for reward, plus you're showing her that coming to you doesn't mean the fun is over coz she gets to go off again and keep playing :) I think a lot of people make the mistake of only calling their dog over when it's time to leave (or when they are going to be in trouble) so of course the dog quickly realises that avoiding being caught is much more fun!

Oh that makes sense, I couldn't find anything on the normal FB terms of use. I was thinking about how useful FB is for rescues and shelters and hoping it wasn't the case.

Wow, is that for real? NO animals?

Congrats to you and Malcolm too PK, great progress on the relaxation protocol. Fingers crossed the Clomicalm helps.

Thanks PK :) I'm amazed actually at how well Molly is doing (which is dumb because I know the training I've been doing with her works but I guess I didn't quite believe it). I think it has been reassuring just having someone who knows what they're talking about assess her. Yesterday we went for a walk with me walking Molly and the VB walking Quinn (they've been completely separated since the first couple of weeks coz they were fighting) and they were totally fine! They had one bout of yelling at each other early on when they stared at each other but then they settled and by the end of the walk they could walk next to each other and Molly made a couple of attempts to sniff Quinn. The VB said that she thinks Molly has accepted that it's ok for Quinn to be the boss, which is great because that's what was causing the fights (Molly not backing down to Quinn). It was interesting coz by the end Molly was the most relaxed I've ever seen her when out and I wonder whether she actually quite liked having another more confident dog on her "team". She's much more relaxed around Saxon too I've discovered. She got to the point where as soon as she saw him she was trying to get at him to attack, even when i was carrying him so they've been completely separate as well but now she can look at him and stay relaxed, and she even lay down and chilled with Saxon near her in a crate.

Unbelievable I can't believe anyone would have dogs off lead in that area in the first place, so many people and buses driving around that could easily hit them, let alone letting them get anywhere near a guide dog. ETA Tempus, I have to say that is the situation I was picturing unfortunately

Well, after lots of things getting in the way we finally managed to meet with the VB this aftwrnoon, and she is confident that Molly can get to the point of being safe enough with other dogs to be adoptable :) Molly initially reacted aggressively when the VB arrived, which I strongly suspected she would, but she hasn't met anyone who's come to the house before so I wanted to test it. She recovered really quickly tho and was fine with the VB as soon as she realised she was a welcome guest. We went to the park to assess her with dogs, and Molly actually did me proud. Usually I have her in LAT mode the whole time but obviously we needed to see her natural behaviour so let her react how she felt the need (through the fence of course), she went off at the little dogs barking at her, again as I knew she would, but recovered quickly and focused back on me as soon as I asked her to... OT but I could not believe how long 3 or 4 separate owners let their small dogs stand at the fence going off at a big dog immediately on the other side of the fence who clearly wanted to attack them. They didn't even intervene, which was useful for our purposes but Jesus Christ *head shake* She actually managed to stay pretty relaxed when dogs approached her on the big dog side, again through the fence. She did have a go at a couple of dogs who I think approached a bit too confidently for Molly's liking (she is much more comfortable with submissive dogs who don't challenge her) but again she could recover really quickly, and she kept looking to me asking me for the guidance I normally give her, which was pretty sweet. I would have likes to have shown her an actual interaction, not through the fence, but there were too many dogs around to go into the park and see if we could approach a suitable dog (it's our regular dog park so I know a lot of the dogs), but the VB is going to come back and do a walk with me with Quinn (my girl) and Molly to see of we can get some sort of calmness between them, and the VB runs classes that I can bring Molly to to practice interacting with dogs in a controlled environment, which I haven't been able to before because the rescue group I'm with doesnt have any other carers out near me or really anyone behaviour experienced enough to come out and help me. So I'm feeling positive that at least we can move forward from where we have been stalled and see how she goes!

As soon as you increase your distractions you need to go back and decrease your distance, so if at home she's recalling from across the yard when you are out in the street you start with her right next to you and reward her turning to look at you, then you let her get a step away, then a few steps etc etc as she becomes reliable at each stage. And you can do all the "being exciting" stuff even then, when you don't necessarily need to, because you want to build up this idea in her mind that no matter what else is going on, you are the best thing around! Another useful thing with recall is always being ready to reward when they voluntarily come to you, so when I'm training it initially any time the pup starts heading towards me I encourage them in and make it exciting and rewarding, even if I didn't actually need them to come to me.

Oh I saw this the other day and meant to post it but forgot. I love how all the people who were previously like "no roaming free is the best life for him, he's happy, he shouldn't be moved" when anyone dared suggest it wasnt ok have gone a bit quiet now :laugh:

And actually, just thinking about it, I think being exciting and vocal is actually more useful in LLW that treats (and trust me I'm a huge treat user!) Food may not be more rewarding than sniffing but you can, so lots of vocalsing and direction changes and "yay you followed me when I bounced over here, lots of praise and pats". And then walk over to the grass to and let her sniff, then more "hey what exciting thing am I doing over here?" As far as LLW with treats, you can also do high frequency click + treat with throwing the treats on the ground just in front of her when she is walking nicely next to you, so she still gets the excitement of moving and sniffing to find the treat but also realisea that not pulling and paying attention to you is worthwhile and doesn't stop her from doing the things she really wants to do. That is how we would often start with untrained shelter dogs who had no concept of walking on lead, focusing on the person or getting rewarded, they would have no interest in looking at you for a treat but when interesting things starts bouncing around on the ground in front of them and they get to sniff them out it becomes a game, and they quickly learn that you are leading the game so it's worth paying attention to you.

I'd say just keep doing what you are doing and don't worry too much about actively transferring the value of the treats. You will probably find it happens organically as you continue training and rehearsing behaviours and build up that reward history. Eventually the experience of communicating with you, figuring out what you want and getting a positive response, with or without a treat, becomes rewarding in itself. I tend to stick fairly strictly to a click or a yes = guaranteed treat but praise like "good girl" or "that's right!" or "yay!" also mean you did what I wanted you to, here's some fuss for you. And I'll use one or the other but not both together, and more mark and treat initially then more praise as the behaviour becomes more familiar, and to try and counter back chaining. Re the socks, i suspect it's probably the smell rather than the actual fabric, even washed socks must smell great to dogs. They remain favourite toys of my 7, 5.5 & nearly 5 year olds. So I dont know that you can make a specific sock the reward and avoid losing others, but a footy sock tug toy could still work, if all other socks are out of reach. Maybe wear the footy sock for a day first to make it extra interesting!

Oh I just remembered I used to use the 4 Legs meat ball things chopped up too

When they were younger and learning in distracting environments I mainly used cheese and cabanossi or hot dogs. Now that they are adults and we have the training and reward history I use GoodOs too!! They are way cheaper to buy than actual "dog treats" and I generally break each one up so they go a long way.

Oh he is gorgeous!

Just thinking of this thread as I enjoy the fun of a season in a multi-dog household. Both males are desexed and were desexed prior to the female's first season and yet all three still totally change their behaviour towards each other during seasons. One minute they are fighting, which they don't nornally, the next one or the other is desperately trying to hump another one, the next someone is cranky again. And I'm aware we have it very easy, others have more issues and that's without having to deal with multiple entire dogs. Willem, we all know how strongly you feel about not desexing "for convenience" but I wonder, have you actually lived with multiple dogs where even one is entire, or (given your strong opinion) more than one is? Also have you had a household where you have had to keep dogs totally separated, due to fighting or avoiding mating, or both? I am interested because you seem to have a very black and white view of the issue and I wonder how much you've experienced the grey in order to know exactly how you would react. If you have had the experiences I would really like to hear how they went and how you managed them.

I'm finding it really interesting watching the difference between the excited herding drive instinct in my herding dogs (who don't seem to have prey drive at all, just curiosity) and the prey drive my foster dog shows towards cats, small dogs, possums etc. The body language is quite different and it's quite clear that the herders want to chase or play whereas foster dog wants to kill (although obviously haven't tested to see if she would follow through!). I imagine the target animal, guinea pigs for eg, have some sense of whether the dog watching them wants to just chase/move them or kill them and that affects the level of stress they feel. Just guessing though.