Simply Grand

One more thing, I really do appreciate the time and effort people put into posting their responses, they are definitely valuable and I hope I haven't upset anyone by posting this thread. It want really to make a point, I just genuinely wondered whether things would go differently if I posted my story in a similar manner to how LMSW posted hers. It is a genuine incident and I actually posted it in the other thread in response to the questions about whether some of us who posted about that would feel differently if the sizes of the dogs were reversed.

:) It really wasnt meant to be a parody, it was an experiment and I really really appreciate the sensible and measures responses. Saxon is fine, we moved to the small dog side of the park where there were no other dogs (it's the Scar at Qbn park) so he could have some more pleasant time at the park before we left and he was happy pottering around sniffing. We've been back since and he's quite happy there. It was a big lesson to ME though to up my vigilance and take even less risks with unknown dogs. I am aware that my knowledge of dog behaviour is above the average person's and I therefore feel that I have a higher level of responsibility to do what I can to prevent incidents between my dogs and others. Although I know it was the owner of the other dog's fault that it happened, and listening to her talk afterwards, it was pretty obvious that she was clueless about dog training and that she was one of those owners HW mentioned who took her dog to the park coz it was too hard for her to control it anywhere else, I know more than she does, and I know there are people like her around so I should not have let Saxon be in that situation, and will not again. I wonder what it is that has made the responses different in this situation than the other one? Is it that this was at a dog park? Do people really think there will be less of that type of owner around at a pets day out than at a dog park? Surely not. Is it that we were off lead? The first bite happened when the dogs were standing still sniffing each other so regardless of what happened next the big dog responded inappropriately to normal dog behaviour from Saxon regardless of other factors, and it seemed to be the point in the other thread that that is never ok and should ranted about, never "accepted". Is it something to do with the size of the dogs involved? Well, it could be because my dog could have been killed so I have no option to go around lamenting the fact that some other people don't do a great job managing their dogs, I HAVE TO take responsibility for my own dog.

Interesting isn't it. Given that whether at an off lead park or an on lead pet event dogs are legally required to be under effective control and are not allowed to bite other dogs, I don't see a significant difference in the circumstances of this incident and the one LMSW posted about in the other thread, yet the tone of responses in this thread are completely different. I do note that the people who responded in both threads have given consistent advice to both of us :)

Do people think, dog and owner behaviour and interaction wise, that there is a discernible difference between a fenced off leash dog park and an on leash pet event where dogs will be in close proximity to unknown dogs and people in an enclosed unfamiliar space?

The other day I was at the dog park with Saxon, my little poodle x who is about 5kgs. A big dog I didn't know entered the park, greeted the other dogs in there with sniffs then came over, sniffed noses with Sax and did the circle to sniff butts. She then bit Saxon on the back of the leg (hard enough to leave a bruise). Saxon yelped in pain then ran away trying to get to me. The big dog chased him, pounced and grabbed Saxon around the torso (he ended up with swelling, bruising and a graze on either side of his torso where this big dog grabbed him, as well as on his back leg where she bit him the first time). The dogs were right at me at that stage so somehow I managed to grab Sax by the harness and hold him up over my head while the dog jumped at me trying to get him and its owner jumped around squealing and trying to catch their dog, which had no collar on. Saxon has a sound temperament and is well socialized and trained so he didn't react towards the other dog but instead remained calm and tried his best to come straight to me after the first bite then stayed focused on me until I could lift him right up and get him out of the situation. The owner of the big dog responded to all of this by saying "oh she's never done that, nothing has ever run away from her before!" and then "she's never been a good dog, she doesn't listen to me, she's just stupid". No apology, not even is he ok. He could have been killed. It's happened to me so many times and I'm so frustrated and sick of big dog owners who excuse their dog's behaviour towards small dogs by saying "oh she'll chase if something runs from her", "he thinks it's a toy that's why he's grabbing at it", "it's the squealing and running, it makes him chase". I should be able to take my dog to a park where dogs are required to be under effective control without him being attacked when he's behaving in a totally appropriate manner!!

Who the hell punches a horse in the face?? That's the kind of guy you'd like to hear about in a news story where his "awesomely trained" horse kicked him in the crotch and his genitals unfortunately had to be removed...

You are changing how he feels, even if he doesn't realise it you are subconsciously creating a positive association with other dogs ("there's a dog...now I'm eating yummy peanut butter"), the two are getting linked in his head :) My favourite treat training comments are about recalls, "oh they're only coming because they know they'll get a treat"... exactly, that's why they come every time I call them, your dog's still over there because there isn't enough value in coming to you (like Steph said).

How terrible, the poor poor woman Agree about the things mentioned above ringing warning bells, and like Melza I wonder if the child was left alone with the dog.

Good on you for seeking advice and getting a professional in Chances are it is frustration and you may have to make some adjustments to her training and lifestyle in general in order to deal with it but I'm sure the trainer will give you good advice and you'll get on top of it. Labs are dogs just like the rest of them I'm afraid, any breed can have a bit of an issue, but you're doing what you need to to fix it up. Like the others said, let us know how you go :)

You've been such an amazing doggy mum to Charlie, Emmy and Skeeter, I think you'll be an amazing human mum too :D Such a lovely family.

Aarrrrgh, so gorgeous!!! (dogs and bub). CONGRATULATIONS :D

Yes, but the RSPCA as usual are hiding behind legislation to avoid having to potentially pay compensation to either owner. Bet they're kicking themselves that they didn't euthanase, would have saved them a world of hassle. Why would the RSPCA have to pay compensation to either owner? They didn't do anything wrong, and they did try to retrieve the dog and return it to the original owner but legally the dog does belong to the new owners so they can't just take it back.

I reckon a microchip, along with everything else, would be ok in your case, and most cases really. Rego, vac certs and IME paperwork from breeders etc have the microchip number on them so that should be enough to identify the dog. It's only really non-chipped dogs I'd be worried about.

I was just thinking though that even if someone has receipts for purchase of the dog, rego and vet bills, if the dog isn't microchipped what proof is there that the dog in question is actually the dog the person paid those things for? Obviously photos would help if the dog looks different enough from other dogs (or if you happened to have a DNA test). Not saying this is relevant in this case, or that it comes up often, but just thinking that it could be an issue if you had more than one party arguing over ownership.

Me too Noishe, that's hilarious and gorgeous :) I'd return the dog in those circumstances. Although the new owners did everything right and have the legal right to keep the dog, I agree with others that lack of a microchip and a clear issue with the dog sitter aren't good enoureasoners for someone to lose their dog of 7 years.

It's so nice to hear about the dogs being settled in homes where they've really become part of the family, it's really all most of them need. There are some that need extra stuff, but for so many of them, they don't need expensive toys or luxury kennels or huge, landscaped backyards, or even to sleep on the beds or go to training or dog sports every week, just having owners who SPEND TIME with them, give them some consistency and love them makes just so happy. A lot of my time is spent doing training with the dogs but sometimes I just take them for a play session in the yard, where they run around like idiots, play fetch and roll in the grass, it's really bittersweet, especially with the long termers, because they're just so happy and tired after a short session of that and I think it's so unfair that they don't have something as simple as a spot in their own home to go back to rather than a kennel. But that's what makes it so fantastic when someone like Jetta, and the others above, goes to such a great home :D

That's exactly what I think wuffles. I've mentioned in the Big Brother thread in OT, he reminds me so much of my Quinn Juice and I have briefly discussed him before in the BB thread, we have differing views on him, I suppose it comes down to what different people enjoy in a dog, which is totally reasonable. Btw Quinn does get off the furniture when I tell her, after she's jumped up uninvited...it's not something that bothers me though so I haven't trained her to wait to be invited.

I'm still smiling about it, it was so good :)

Long post alert! We had a really busy day of people interested in and adopting dogs today at the shelter where I work (7 dogs went to their new homes today, another 8 or so have applications and will hopefully go home in this week). I was lucky enough to do one particularly nice and totally unexpected adoption :) Jetta is a lovely female staffy x of approx 1 year old. She came into the shelter several months ago and had dystichia (sp?), which the vets treated her for then monitored her recovery, so she was in the shelter a while before she became available for adoption but once medically cleared she went up with no other concerns - she's a sweet dog, loooooves people and pats, fine with other dogs, very trainable, not fearful, reactive or resource guardy, and really nice looking...she seemed like she would be a pretty in demand dog. Her only issue is beng super boisterous! Her greeting style with people is jump jump jump all over you, throw herself at you, do some zoomies, then come back and stand up on her hind legs leaning against you wanting pats :laugh: Cute, but very inappropriate, annoying and sometimes painful. So with all of the above she was in the shelter for a good few months. Today, out of the blue, I went to talk to a customer, she said wanted to ask about Jetta, she and her fiancé had been in a month ago, met Jetta, really loved her and spent a long time interacting with her plus just watching her in her kennel (they were there for a couple of hours). However they live in a townhouse which only has a courtyard and they decided that Jetta, being the lovely dog she is, would quickly find a home with a bigger yard that would give her more room to run around and be better for her, so decided not to take her despite how much they wanted her. Completely of their own accord, without telling us they were doing it, they'd spent the last month keeping an eye on whether she was still at the shelter and, as time went on and she was still there, applying to their Body Corp for permission for a dog, permission to modify their fences if necessary, working out their schedules to be sure that they could exercise her twice a day and give her the training she'd need, researching the distychia, all with the understanding that Jetta could have been adopted by someone else at any time. After a month of thinking every day that surely someone has snapped her up today was the day they decided that if we felt that Jetta would be happy and secure in their home, without the big back yard, they would give themselves permission to take her. I don't often find myself thinking "this is meant to be" when we rehome dogs (more often it's "ok, this can work"), but after hearing the thought this couple has put into this specific dog, the emotion that was clearly there for them and the fact that if I had felt she really needed a bigger yard they would have given her up plus the fact that the dog they wanted was one where I really couldn't understand why she was still there... today I think just maybe this one really is meant to be :)

Interesting to hear that too, I haven't actually had any experience with him but Saxon was booked at one of those salons for his first ever groom as a puppy, I got there and they were adamant that I couldn't stay and watch while it was done, I just had a bad feeling so I decided not to go through with it. Ironically enough I then took him to the other salon without realizing it was the same owner, I checked when I booked that I could stay, and it all went fine (I did decide to groom him myself after that though so that was the only time he's been to the groomer). (that happened 4-odd year ago so I'm just assuming current owner was the owner then. If not, disregard what I said above)

Surely the police would have some indication as to whether it actually was an attack or was an accident she was involved in alone, wouldn't they? There would be blood around etc. Whatever happened, as perse said poor Bella and poor family

How awful for those poor dogs and their owners, I just hate to think of the poor dogs stuck in the cages being burned I didn't realise those two salons had the same owner, interesting.

Hehe RB, human ladies :D Thanks for the responses, very interesting, obviously it can happen, which makes sense as I suppose we train them not to follow other natural instincts. I guess I thought that while plenty of people may want to teach their dog not to hump not many are trying to teach it when entire dog and bitch in season are together so in that situation instinct would take over. I suppose it depends on the individual dog's temperament and drive, and the level of aversive the owner has used (in the context of that particular dog).

Just after opinions/experiences for interest's sake. Chatting about dog and owner behaviour with some colleagues today, the story came up of someone who owned an entire dog who was told off (pretty firmly I gather) for any mounting behaviour for his whole life - 4 yrs at the time. They then wanted to mate this boy so brought in a bitch in season but the boy never showed any interest in her. One colleague believed that the dog refused to mount the bitch as he had always been told off for it, I thought it was more likely that the bitch wasn't at the right stage yet as I thought his natural drive to get to her would over-ride beig taught not to mount in general life. I know there are all sorts of variables in an individual situation, and I don't know anything about the above situation other than what I've written so there could be all sorts of reasons why it didn't happen with that dog, so that's really just background as to why I'm asking the question, which is: Do you think an entire dog can be trained not to mount/hump to the extent that he actually wouldn't attempt to mate with a receptive bitch in season in with him?