Simply Grand

Everybody loves Cocoa Add me to the list, she's gorgeous

Funny you should say that Redsonic as my girl Quinn has figured out the same thing about jumping on people, I was rewarding her when she approached someone and didn't jump on them, so now she runs up to people, deliberately doesn't jump on them then runs back to me expecting a treat...sigh. It's better than her jumping on people but not what I meant to teach her! Afraid I haven't figured out the solution yet

But I don't think the poll gives you enough accurate figures re. population vs sample, skewness, significance etc to draw any real conclusions. Interesting to read people's experiences though.

Oh that's horrible dogmatic Absolutely agree with you, no way is that going to teach the dogs to come to him, if anything I bet his dogs attempt to avoid him, at least subtly, whenever he comes close to them.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think it's a valid training strategy! I don't think it works to teach the dog recall, it just teaches the dog to desperately try and avoid punishment, without understanding why it is being punished. I doubt people that punish their dogs end up with a dog that goes to a distance and reliably comes back when called, I expect the dog eventually just stays close to the owner as it's too worried about the punishment to try and do anything at all. Wouldn't make for a happy doggy

Dogs can be capable of making some quite complex associations, I wonder whether in these cases the dog has made the association that "me at a distance + owner saying 'X' + that tone and body language usually = getting a belting (or whatever punishment) soon" and "Being close to owner most of the time doesn't = getting a belting" so the dog thinks "better get out of scenario 1 and into scenario 2 to try and avoid belting". Even if the dog comes and it still results in a belting (scenario 3) there are still likely to be more occurrences of scenario 2 in life overall, so when dog finds itself in scenario 1 and doesn't actually know what to do, it goes to the owner trying to get back to scenario 2. So whilst it appears to the owner that the dog has understood that it was the action of not coming when called that resulted in the belting, by the time the dog is back at the owner it doesn't know why it ended up in scenario 3 but has never been taught what the owner actually wants it to do when it's at a distance and the owner calls so it just keeps trying the only option it knows about, which is attempting scenario 2. Sorry, I know that is super cofusing, hopefully it makes some sense Oh, and it's only my conjecture! ETA - teaching a recall by rewarding the dog when it does come is the telling the dog what you actually want it to do part, so it eliminates the confusion :)

Espinay, if I was in the situation to need to challenge an order that's the approach I would take - I wouldn't bother arguing against council officer's assessment of the dog according to their "test", I'd be bringing all sorts of evidence of features of non-restricted breed dogs that meet the assessment criteria and could be combined to result in a dog that looks like a restricted breed, any evidence I could find of cross bred dogs of documented heritage that end up looking like a different pure breed and as Melza said, whatever results I could find of the inaccuracy of visual assessment of breed.

I just couldn't do the phone thing. Why? because if I did I would have 2 border collies just sitting at my feet!! I have to keep moving for them to move around. Lazy little buggers. Very annoying if I feel sick and don't want to walk around! Lol, i was going to say the same thing :) I take my 3 to the fenced off lead park most arvos, I walk around all day at work so sometimes I'd like to just sit down but if I do I instantly have the Sheltie on my lap, the poodle x tapping my leg asking for treats and the Aussie shoving her head in between them in case she misses out on something. The only way to get them to actually run is for me to walk laps of the park :laugh:

Oh Lhok

Saxon still has his Seaworld stuffed polar bear (named Polar Bear) which was his first ever toy, he cuddled with Polar Bear in the crate on the way home when I got him at 6 weeks old, now he's 4 and a half years :) I don't know how PB has managed to survive, the only real damage is one lost eye and chewed ears, the younger dogs play with him too and they destroy every other toy ETA - Saxon does still regularly find PB and bring him over to poke at me, and he knows PB by name so if I say "where's Polar Bear?" he'll go and search around til he finds him :D

It's nice isn't it, too many people are exercising their right to protest a non-fact based decision, so we better get rid of that right...

I was just reading through the bill, here's the link to the actual proposed amendment re. identification of restricted breed dogs: http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubPDocs.nsf/ee665e366dcb6cb0ca256da400837f6b/9C767619F3953038CA257C210010E0F6/$FILE/571421bi1.pdf 29 Power of authorised officers to make declarations as to breed of dogs After section 98A(3) of the Domestic Animals Act 1994 insert— "(4) If a declaration is made under subsection (1) to the effect that a dog is a restricted breed dog, then for the purposes of any proceedings under this Act, including a proceeding in the Tribunal, it is presumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the dog is a restricted breed dog if at the time of the making of the declaration— (a) the authorised officer who made the declaration had completed a course of training for the purposes of making declarations under this section that had been approved by the Minister; and (b) the Minister's approval of the course of training had been published in the Government Gazette.".

Yep, 3 bed sleepers here too, they manage to arrange themselves around me all on one side of my queen bed so somehow I can't move from my edge but half the bed is still empty... Totally spoilt dogs, nothing to do with the fact that I like having them there even though the younger (bigger) two would be quite happy sleeping elsewhere

I met little Miley briefly this afternoon :) She was looking great, running around and jumping over things, but it has obviously been a massive effort to get her back to that. She had a little play session with Saxon, he liked her a lot :D

Oh no, how scary and stressful. Poor puppies I don't think there is much you can do other than send the most positive thoughts, the puppy is at the vet getting the treatment he needs and will hopefully come through unscathed. Thinking of you!

Oh no, it was the "supposed to be a Greyhound but..." bit that was embarrassing :) I don't blame people for being unsure about Whippets and Greyhounds if they haven't had much to do with them, just like I don't blame people for being unsure about Aussies vs Borders :)

OT but I think I once accidentally really offended a Whippet owner at the park, I was chatting to some teenagers who were there with their family dog and were interested in all the other breeds that were at the park. They saw the Whippy and asked what it was and I told them, then one asked if that was what Santa's Little Helper in The Simpsons is, I said "no, he's supposed to be a Greyhound but he looks a bit small to me". Unfortunately I think the Whippy owner may have only heard what I said at the end and thought I was saying it about his dog :o He said "he's a Whippet" in a not very impressed voice. I felt sooooo bad, how offensive if I had been saying it about his dog

I find this odd, as my Aussie gets the opposite. Almost everyone tells me he is a Koolie! I was going to comment that there seem to be alot of Koolie experts around here. People are always saying my Aussie is one too, although I've definitely seen more Aussies than Koolies around here so I don't know where this expertise is coming from :laugh:

I watched about 18 seconds of that poor little dog trying to get away and constantly seeking help from his owner who just sat there like a stupid numbskull. All I could think of (meaning the owner) was, "Bloody bitch should have that dog taken away from her." Me too. If I'd been there I don't thinking could have helped myself from stepping in myself to move the other dogs away or at least saying something to the owner. I do think the rat terrier stepped up to the husky confrontationally (I don't think it was intentionally to save the brown dog though) then as the commentary said realised he was well outmatched so moved away, the husky was interested in him by then though and chased. I think the husky probably was playing but was highly aroused and on the edge of tipping over into full on prey mode.

I meant understandable literally as in can be understood. Understanding something is not the same as condoning it. Like I said, I understand that some dogs have high prey drive, that doesn't mean I think it's ok for them to bite my dog. The point of the thread was to satisfy my own curiosity about how this thread would unfold compared to the other one, and to see whether anything came up that would change my own views on LMSW's incident. I certainly wasnt trying to catch anyone out as I thought it would be quite obvious that I was intentionally making a comparison, given that I used the same wording.

Where did I say it was reasonable or normal?

I don't agree with anyone who said that Roscoe in any way behaved inappropriately or provoked the other dog to attack him, any more than I would agree with anyone saying Saxon behaved inappropriately or provoked the other dog in my situation. I think there were a number of people offering possible explanations for why the little dog may have reacted to Roscoe and why it may have been unwise to have Roscoe that close, just as there have been explanations in this thread for the dog's reaction to Saxon - prey drive kicked in in response to a small fluffy creature, especially when Saxon yelped and ran. Does that make it ok for the dog to bite another dog? No way, but it's an understandable dog reaction, just as I think it's an understandable reaction for a small dog to not like large dogs approaching it. LMSW and some others in the other thread continually refused to even acknowledge that, which I think is part of what frustrated me and others. As far as owners making excuses for their dog's behaviour, I think it's a common reaction for a lot of people when their dog behaves badly regardless of the dog's size and saying that it is predominantly an issue with small dog owners is unfair and probably inaccurate. I doubt there are accurate figures but I suspect for every person who's heard an excuse for a small dog behaving badly there is a person who's heard an excuse for a big dog behaving badly.

Yes the incident did occur, just how I told it. The bit at the end about being so sick of it was exaggerated and the emphasis on the size of the other dog was to match what was said in the other thread. In reality I'm frustrated by owners of any size dog who don't train, care for and manage it properly. I also found the strong focus on the size of the other dog in the other thread annoying.

It was meant to be obvious, I intentionally used the same wording :)

What do you mean it was an experiment? We've had lots of threads about dogs being attacked on DOL and usually the responses are along the lines of what's been said in this thread, that yes it sucks that there are dogs that don't behave appropriately towards other dogs and stupid owners who make excuses for them BUT it's a fact of life so we all have to deal with it and take steps to protect our own dogs. In LMSW's thread there were plenty of response along those lines but there also seemed to be quite a bit of anger at the small dog and its owners, and LMSW argued against people saying stuff like this happens, you shouldn't put your dog in that situation. I found it interesting (and somewhat frustrating) and I wanted to see whether the same would happen in this thread.