Simply Grand

I think that's one side of things - somehow educating and encouraging owners to build their own knowledge and make use of the resources available to them to 1. Decide if they should even have a dog at all 2. Pick the right dog for them, wherever it comes from and 3. Understand what will really be required to make sure the dog continues to suit what they need and want throughout its life. Another side is trying to somehow reduce the number of randomly bred dogs who have health or behavioural issues inherited when a mating and raising of pups (including early socialisation and adequate time with mum and litter mates before going to a home) is done either without thought at all or with a focus on something other than producing animals genuinely suitable for wherever you send them off to. There are plenty of dogs out there born with a predisposition towards (or guarantee of) having issues that make it very difficult for the average pet owner - as in someone who wants a fairly easy to manage pet dog that can fit into the household, interact with other humans and animals in society without hassle, not escape and destroy things - to manage. I don't really feel it's entirely Average Joe Petowner's fault if the cute puppy they buy from the pet shop or Gumtree or the friend down the road (because that's where they thought you looked for puppies, and a friend had one and it's great, and they were told mum and dad were great dogs, and no one else wanted them and we didn't want them to go to the pound, and we''ve had the breed before but this one's different etc etc etc) turns out to actually have strong resource guarding tendencies or an instinct to bite first, ask questions later with other dogs or wariness of strangers and, being average pet owners, they don't realise and don't have the knowledge to work on these things before the puppy gets big enough and rehearses the behaviour enough to become risky. In those cases I think it's safer for the dog to end up somewhere where it will be properly assessed and tough decisions made if necessary than to be passed from home to home unable to manage it. I'm sure plenty of the irresponsible or unethical breeders and people whose pets just get pregnant and have puppies which they sell or give away, have no more idea about the consequences for the pups down the track in those situations, or if they do they don't care, however if the dog had not been bred in the first place it wouldn't be anyone's issue. ETA - don't get me wrong, I'm also well aware that there are plenty of people out there who just say it's too much effort, the dog is a pain, it's too naughty, it's not cute anymore, it should just know not to steal a roast chook of the bench (yep, someone really said that about a dog they'd had for 3 months and didn't want anymore) when really all the dog needs is a little bit of effort from the right people.

Of course it is. It is a bit like telling someone who is buying apples that they should be supporting orange growers . So stupid. Good analogy DD

I love cats, so funny :laugh:

I don't think she's being negative about rescue or rescue dogs in general, the following quote explains for me who she's aiming at: "I do not ever want to live in a world without dogs. What a terrible place that would be, yet so many professed animal lovers are campaigning through shaming to create just such a world. Because thats what it means when you say things like adopt dont shop, dont breed while shelter dogs die, and people who buy dogs from breeders should be ashamed of themselves." I'm not sure how effective it would be in changing anyone's mind about the issue though.

I'm amazed at that! ( tho obviously I believe you). I'd LOVE a black tri Sheltie...no offence to my Sable boy

Thanks Esky :) I think the boy I met today would be around that height, and probably 40ish kgs (totally based on my estimations). He was 12 mths max. Nice dog, foster puppy liked him and instigated chase but a clumsy 10kg 15 week old wasn't quite a match for the big boy :p I didn't ask about his pedigree of course so don't know his background.

OT but seeing as you mentioned it Esky :D... How big (height/weight wise) do you expect Fritz to get? My little foster pup is allegedly mastiff mix x "bull Arab" - mum (mastiff mix), possibly dad too, actively used in pig hunting. She's 10kgs at 15 weeks and looks quite Dane-ish, but I don't think she'll reach anywhere near that size. Today at the park I met a Dane sized Bull Arab, he seemed big compared to the other "bull Arabs" I've come across and I wondered at the time what size the proper registered Bull Arabs are aiming to be. It doesn't matter at all re. foster puppy, I only ever say she's a bitsa, and will be large, but just curious about the Bull Arab breed...

Me too KC, I have a spare lead and treats on hand. Like you said though, it only works sometimes. I guess we all tend to only tell the stories that have a good outcome on here so it must seem like wandering dogs can mostly be caught but thinking about it I'm probably 50/50 on getting hold of them and not. I had one the other day where a little fluffy was running around on a main-ish road, busy at peak times but not too bad during the day. I turned around and pulled over, the little dog wouldn't come near me, ran away but looked like he was heading home. I followed him into a cul de sac, he was hanging around one house that had pathetic fencing with gaps he could obviously fit through to get out, although he wouldn't go back in through them for some reason. I tried for a while to get hold of him but he wasn't having a bar of it, growling when I got close and running back towards the main road if I went the wrong way. He ended up getting under the neighbours gate, the neighbour came out and told me the little dog is always out and the owner's always saying he'll get around to fixing the fence. We chatted for a while and I said I could take him back to the shelter I work at so the owner would have to talk to us at least but the neighbour was clearly uncomfortable with that. He was nice and seemed concerned but he does have to live there I guess. I asked him to make clear that the dog was on the main road and it was only a matter of time til he got hit. I hope the owner does something about the fencing and it doesn't end horribly for the little dog

Oh it is too. She's gorgeous, love all the pics :D

Aww, look at him

I don't think you failed him at all! You tried hard at considerable risk to yourself to get the dog out of a dangerous situation. As much as we'd love to have all wandering dogs understand our intentions to help them, not hurt them, if they really don't want to be caught they won't be and there's not much we can do about that in a one off situation. I've had a few situations where I haven't been able to catch a dog that's been running loose on a road or once when I did catch him but he slipped his collar when I got him out of the car at my house and ran off and I couldn't find him. I felt terrible in that instance and thought he probably would have been better off if I'd left him to wander home again, but I still overall think I'd rather at least try and help. It does disappoint me how often people don't do anything to help when one or more people are abviously running around trying to do something, and as for the d*ckhead who suggested running him over, well

Someone earlier in the thread said, I think, that jumping is a training issue not a breed trait. This is not a view shared by anyone who owns a wheaten terrier. Or an Aussie Shepherd (I say after just retrieving my Aussie from the wrong side of the courtyard fence for the second time in 15 mins, she's just realised she can jump the gate with ease, sigh). Obviously inappropriate jumping on people is a training/management issue (and ongoing battle in my life with Quinn) but I do think some breeds are more naturally inclined to jumping in general than others. Sorry to go a bit OT.

What a great update :) I agree Kirra is a lucky girl to have found your family.

Ah, I see, thanks MUP. Hope he went to/goes to a good home

Do you mean this one MUP? http://www.tams.act.gov.au/city-services/pets/keeping_dogs_in_the_act/lost,_found,_impounded_and_wanted_dogs/impounded_dogs?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuZG9tZXN0aWNhbmltYWxzLmFjdC5nb3YuYXUlMkZJbXBvdW5kLmFzcCUzRkFjdGlvbiUzRFVQRF9JUCUyNlBvdW5kSWQlM0QzNDY3MCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D How do you know she's a Beauceron? Isn't Rottie mix more likely?

Oh, I much prefer "Bouvipoo"! *sigh* ETA - we had a staffy crossed with something smaller in the shelter not long ago, I so wanted to market her as a Teacup SBT and see how much we could get for her :p (not seriously of course).

Quinn finally realised she could jump the baby gate just a few weeks ago - she's two and a quarter now and would have been physically capable of it for at least 18 months, she used to hang the whole top half of her body over it but never realised she could jump it :laugh: The other week I had Saxon and foster puppy at the door about to take them for a walk, she could see us from behind the gate and just got so excited wanting to come with us that she propelled herself over it. She didn't realise how she'd done it at first and when I put her back behind it she was poking at it trying to open it for a minute then jumping must have occured to her coz she was over again. Now I just hear "thump" "thump" as she leaps straight over it whenever she wants *sigh*. I have ordered a higher one, we'll see how long that lasts. Sorry for joining in wuffles' hijack!

Seeing as the thread's back up, I'll give you an update :) I kept meaning to do it and forget. Foster puppy is now 12.5 weeks and still feels the carsickness The Travacalm ginger tablets have definitely been the most effective thing in making it less severe, as well as no food for a good few hours beforehand. If I give her the Travacalm 30 mins before the trip starts she can do 30 minute drive with only a little bit of drooling and appears much more comfortable than without it (although she still goes quiet in the car, and she resists her car harness and walking towards the car a little bit). I've tried front seat, windows open, music on with no luck and having the other dogs in the car doesn't help either. She doesn't seem to be having any adverse effects from the Travacalm, the ingredients say it's just ginger root powder so I thought it probably was safe. I started off giving her half a tablet, she's now a bit over 8kgs and I've been giving her a whole one.

I don't agree with that, not every adult has knowledge of dog behaviour, or child behaviour for that matter, let alone both. It depends so much what happened, had the owner shut the dog out the back and not expected the child to go out there? Did she explicitly warn the mother not to let the child out the back while the dog was there? Was the mother aware of where her child was? Did either dog owner or mother realise the kid was out the back? I think if both dog owner and mother were aware that the kid was out there or was likely to go out there they are both responsible, but even then it's quite possible that the mother had no idea what dogs are capable of and that the dog owner had no idea what kids are capable of and it didn't occur to either of them that they needed to be more vigilant than they were in this situation. ETA - I definitely agree with the judge's decision.

Love it! Based on that photo the Kelpie is totally owning that situation. (I'm assuming they sorted it out and neither dog was hurt...) ETA - and look at the sheep, "lets get outta here, nothing to do with us )

Does it not say? My guys orange Limit reg papers say ' Limited Register' at the top. If it doesn't say that I'd assume main reg.

I was just telling what the vet said but..ok, so i'll just ignore what a QUALIFIED vet says and take advice from someone on a internet forum shall I???? Sorry mate but I have no idea who you are. I just had a pervo test done 5 days after a vaccination and it was negative Wow, just so rude Benz. As has now been explained, you certainly can get a false positive parvo result following vacs sometimes. I do hope you stick around as DOL is a wealth of knowledge.

All good advice above IMO. As much as leaping straight to the medication option is a bad idea, so is not considering it when it could be beneficial for the dog. Don't forget Steph, whatever path you guys take, it has to be one you are comfortable with. You are clearly committed, caring and sensible dog owners so by all means take on all the advice you can get but trust your own instincts as well

Just to be clear, this isn't my situation or that of anyone I know personally, it's just a situation I'm aware of and found interesting.

Thanks Nek, what you've said makes sense. Der, I see how "normal" wasn't a very helpful description! I meant could they have non-aggressive interactions, sounds like you have come across some that aren't constantly trying to eat people, but that do show indications that they'd be more likely to show aggression if they thought it would work for them than other puppies. Stafftluv, the pup you talk about sounds like a whole 'nother level, no wonder you say he was a scary dog