Simply Grand

Bolded bit is exactly what I was thinking as I first watched the video! The second thing I thought as I watched it was "why the hell are you putting your hand back there!?!" He did admit in the interview I saw (which I think is linked in the thread) that he had a brain fart :laugh:

The child entered the territory for which the dogs were defending.....the dogs were not targeting attacks on children. Yes, that's normal behaviour for dogs defending territory in unison to stop entry of an unfamiliar person. Mum and dad could have educated the child not to enter the neighbours yard especially given that the yard was signed. I doubt the neighbours didn't know the dogs were there? The dog's weren't targeting attacks on children, they were defending territory which is what dogs of territorial drive do. Perhaps the dog owners have been victims of serious assaults or home invasions and territorial driven dogs help them sleep at night. Territorial drive doesn't reserve it's self for only children. The dogs may have been quite social away from their territory and be fundamentally good stable dogs. Parents need to educate children that dogs can defend territory and not to enter enclosures containing dogs without the dog owner's presence. If you have not socialised your dog not to see children as such a threat to property that they will be maimed and if you wish to own dogs whose drives and temperament will see them do this then you have a responsiblity to contain them in a manner that does not see them do this. The consequences for the dogs and their victims are dire. As a community, we need to understand that kids are not adults, they don't think as adults and the consequences of behaviour may not be considered before action. Hands up everyone who as kids did everything their parents ever told them? Not many hands are there. And I'm sorry but I do not consider the sort of dog that will commit this kind of attack as merely "defending territory". If you have a dog that sees a 10 year old child as such a serious threat, then lock it the hell away from your front door. Most dogs do not maim intruders as a first response. 20 puncture wounds is one hell of an opening "warning". Exactly HW, especially the bolded bit. Regardless of the legalities, regardless of fault, regardless of the intended purpose of the dog (even of it was to be an actual guard dog) there is no way that this was a justifiable or desirable response from a stable dog. If a dog does not have a stable temperament as a base AND has DEMONSTRATED that it will react with aggression if pushed (as opposed to warn/avoid/shut down) then it's a dangerous dog. Amax you talk about stable temperament and good nerve all the time, surely you can see that whichever dog it was that couldn't be called off is an example of the opposite. ETA just noticed that you commented that they could be good, stable dogs in other circumstances. IMO it's either a good, stable dog in all circumstances or it's not stable. If the dog does not react in a predictable and appropriate manner when pushed how is stable? Sad that the other dog got caught up in it (if it is fact that it called straight off)

I don't know about that, it sounds like it was a pretty full on attack. If any dog of mine responded to a kid jumping the fence like that I'd have to think long and hard about keeping them alive

Now that's a slime trail td! I never took a photo of my poor carsick foster puppy (now adopted) with her twin trails of drool whenever she was in the car I especially liked it when she leaned against my arm for comfort and continued to drool into my sleeve for the whole trip...

Agree, I think it's a nice idea :)

The dogs' owner said on the news this afternoon that the boy jumped the fence into the yard

Oops, dbl post

You can see how it is that many attacks (for lack of a better word) are on kids by dogs known to them when you watch something like that. I can see it playing out as when the owner is around the dog feels really uncomfortable with whatever the child is doing but looks to their owner, who seems fine about it all so the dog defers to that and just stays still waiting for the kid to go away. Meanwhile, owner, kid and everyone else miss the signs that the dog is uncomfortable and assume that because the dog hasn't tried to move away or given an obvious negative reaction it is ok with the kid doing whatever it's doing. However, suddenly when the owner isn't there but the kid is, the dog is on its own, it doesn't have anyone around that it believes will keep it safe from the weird behaviour of the kid so it feels like it has to fight the kid off itself

They would, wouldn't they, especially the ones with the kids in them.

I got the impression shapeshifter was talking about wanting a specific response to the question of which breeds are impossible to break into, not which breed would suit the OP.

Oh I've seen that Green Feeder on tv! Mrs RB I suspect it's a bit like other slow feeder type bowls, it depends whether the dog thinks to pick it up. As I mentioned, my foster puppy never tried with the slow feeder bowl but smarty pants Quinn flipped it straight over.

When I first got my (ugly, second hand, fake) leather lounge suite I wiped it over every day when I got home to get rid of the hair, slobber and muddy footprints all over it...that lasted about a week and a half, now I just cover the mess with a throw rug until I get around to a proper house clean

That is fantastic! I'm guessing that when he's staying for hours he's actually asleep!

Not even then necessarily.

Thanks Louise, I'll look into it :)

Sorry to post in General, I know this isn't dog related but I wanted to give it the best chance of being seen...hope thats ok. Olivia the pig is at RSPCA ACT. http://www.rspca-act.org.au/node/637 The shelter environment is obviously not ideal for a pig, being the intelligent and social animals they are. If anyone is in a position to give her a suitable home I'm sure she would be very appreciative! You can let me know or contact RSPCA ACT directly on 02 6287 8100.

I agree with this too Anne, I didn't think you gave that impression at all :)

Good explanation RP :) I suppose it depends on the individual rescue whether they choose to take crosses or only apparent pure breeds. Maybe different labels would be helpful, but then I'd hate to think that someone looking at a dog needing to get out of a pound or shelter would not bother contacting a particular breed rescue to see if they'd consider taking a dog that is believed to be a cross of their breed because they thought they would only take pure breeds. Especially as a number of them will take mixes. I completely understand choosing to only take pure breeds though and they should not be made to feel guilty for that

I have a Busy Buddy Twist'n'Treat http://www.petland.com.au/prod1035.htm for Quinn. I don't know that even the large size would be big enough to hold a cup of food and I'm not sure about the size of the holes with your kibble, but it keeps her going for AGES with treats and/or peanut butter smeared inside it. You can twist it closed really tightly so they have to grip and lick and throw it around to try and unscrew it enough for the holes to be big enough for the food to fall out. It's tough rubber too, mine has lasted a good 12 months I'd say. Kong Wobbler takes her maybe 5-10 mins as a comparison and the one time I tried a Go Slow type bowl she had one attempt at fitting her snout in the gaps between the little blocking bits then just flipped the whole bowl over so the food spilled everywhere :laugh:

To be fair, it doesn't sound like the breeder has ADVOCATED forceful weaning or booting them out at 6 weeks. And really, the puppies don't physically need to nurse after 6 weeks weeks old, so long as they are eating an adequate amount of suitably nutritious solid food. I do agree there are significant social benefits to keeping pups with mum and litter mates until 8 weeks if possible.

I think she's getting conflicting advice and isn't sure what to take on board. Tess, are you worried that the pups will struggle to cope without mum's milk once they leave home if they are not fully weaned before hand? If that's the issue, you don't need to worry. As long as they are eating enough solid food (keep going with what you are doing with soaking less and less so they learn to,eat the hard food) they will cope just fine when there isn't milk around any more :) I personally wouldn't bother trying to block them with a shirt or jumper, I would just keep doing what you've been doing, unless she starts to tell them she's had enough and they don't listen! She'll make it very clear if she's had enough of them by firmly telling them to p*ss right off when they try to feed but with only two, she way well be quite happy to keep feeding until they leave. As Perse mentioned, mum should be on rations, no more food than she would normally have he'd pre-pregnancy, and back on adult food, not puppy. Try not to stress too much! ETA and yes, I think Perse had a typo :)

Maybe those experienced breeders could give some explanation about the reasoning behind keeping pups with mum until 8 weeks, that might be more helpful than just saying letting them go before then is the wrong thing to do, and would allow less experienced people to learn something, not just be told they are wrong.

Nothing wrong with mourning DDD. It's unfair and it sucks, you're entitled to feel angry and sad ETA and stunned, and confused and whatever else.

Harsh Clover. Tesslc is on a steep learning curve with this litter (there is a history you may or may not be aware of). She is trying hard to do things right and saying something she's doing is stupid doesn't help anyone.