Simply Grand

An unlikely benefit of walking on harness occurred to me this evening on our walk. My three walk in Easy Walk front attach harness with Quinn on one lead and the two boys on a coupler on the other lead. As we were walking down the footpath we often walk along a big Dane type dog came racing out into the back yard of the house that backed onto the road we were on, barking and bouncing and carrying on. The top of his head was level with the top of the chain link fence when he was standing with four feet on the ground! Fortunately the back yard was higher than street level (as in the ground level he was on was about waist height on me). So he would have had about a 2m drop from the top of his fence to the ground on our side, but if I was his owners I don't think I'd rely on him knowing that. Anyway, we continued on past and he stayed in the yard but I did think, if he'd jumped out I could have reefed my two boys up on their one leash and chucked them over his fence to get them out of his way, leaving just me and Quinn. I wouldn't want to do that to them by their collars :) In all seriousness, I actually have grabbed Saxon by the harness and held him aloft over my head when I was grabbing him out of the mouth of a much bigger dog who decided he was prey.

Hehe, I often wake up and think I should take them up there in the morning, but I usually end up stumbling out the door for a walk around the block instead I'm finding it's better up there in the evenings now than it was in summer, as in it's a fairly regular good group that still go when it's cold and wet and nearly dark. And often the small side is empty so I can use that to let my three run with each other without having to keep quite such an eye on them.. Whenever we go, if both sides are occupied I assess whether we know and get along with the dogs in each side, whether there are kids there, what the people are doing and what the dynamic of each side is and pick the better match (if there is one), keeping either Quinn or Riley on lead so they don't overwhelm / be overwhelmed respectively if necessary! It's an exercise in logistics and focus and sometimes it's all too hard (for me) so we just go for a walk on lead instead :laugh:

I think all the ACT govt ones have the separate areas now... My only concern with it is that I think some people take the attitude that if you are in the "big" dog / open area it's at your own risk and you have to deal with rough play and rudeness, especially if you have a smaller dog in there. Same goes the other way, it allows small dog owners to avoid issues with their dog reacting negatively to big dogs rather than dealing with them. My ideal is that if you are going to have a dog at an off leash area they should be able to interact politely with dogs of all sizes. However, my ideal is not the real world :D so for safety's sake they are a good, practical idea.

I think your best bet is to get a good behaviourist to come and look at them personally. You've got a few complications going on with the pups, your girl becoming a mum and also that she would have been coming into maturity anyway. Given the seriousness of the fight this morning I don't think it's worth the risk of trying to figure out what's happening without seeing them

Great post. We use front attach harnesses and don't have any issues with pulling. Same. And used head collars plenty too, for exactly the reason Aidan said.

It is illegal to sell pups before 8 weeks in NSW and ACT, possibly other states as well, I'm not sure.

Geraldine's Animal Training http://www.geraldinesanimaltraining.com.au/ Or Paul Welsh, The Canine Coach http://www.caninecoach.com.au/ :)

Great idea :) teaching new tricks is excellent mental stimulation, and fun for both of you. You can start teaching him to walk nicely on a leash around your house and yard from now too.

Plenty of people raise pups while working full time BUT it means you have to be really dedicated to your dog ALL the rest of the time :) I'd definitely work on getting your yard fully secure ASAP (you'll need good, high fencing, BCs can jump ) so he can be outside pretty soon. You probably need to do lots of little mental stimulation training sessions, starting from now and will need to give him more and more as he grows up. a good training school would be great for you but seeing as he's so young (still too young to be away from mum and litter actually) you'll need to be very, very careful where you take him until his vaccinations are complete.

Do some research on randomising your rewards, that's how you wean off treating every time and avoid the dog only performing when it knows you have treats. It basically the pokes principle, if they're never quite sure when they are going to get the reward but it comes often enough to keep them trying to earn it , they'll keep the behaviour basically indefinitely. Another way I attempt to explain it in class: If you were playing a poker machine and you kept hitting the button again and again and not winning, you'd think this is dumb, I'm gonna go and get a drink instead (stop the behaviour and do something else more rewarding). If every single time you hit the button you got $10 after a while you'd go I feel like getting a drink, I'll come back later to get some more $10 coz I know whenever I feel,like pushing the button I'll get my $10. (Again, stop the behaviour to do something else rewarding). But, as with real pokies, if you push the button a few times then win something, then a few more times and win something else, then lots of times and start to get frustrated but then win a big amount then a few more times and win again then you're highly likely to think ok, I'll just try a bit longer before I leave to go and get a drink because I'm never sure when I'm going to win something but its often enough to keep me trying! (Continue offering the behaviour in the hope that this next time will win you something, and find it really rewarding when you do win something :) )

That sounds fantastic, well done Re using her name to get her to look at you, I don't think that's a problem, I do it with my guys and it works well. It's good with the three of them coz they can tell which one I want the attention of (although they usually all look anyway in case they can score a treat *eye roll* :p ).

I agree with you if you're dealing with a dog that has a history of success with pulling and refusing to move on and hasn't learned handler focus. In that case I'd definitely be working on short leash, maintain focus on me and ignore all distractions until that focus and responsiveness is built up. I think though with a dog like Didi who is already able to focus on Terri in many situations and has value for her she should be able to achieve it.

Ooh, great exercise raineth, I'm going to steal that one

Just another thought too. I'm not sure what kind of corrections you're using when you say you're using a mix of corrections and rewards (assume things like leash pops and verbal corrections?) but unless that's a training approach you really like and want to use, you don't need it to teach loose lead walking. The only correction you need to use is stop still and allow her no progress for pulling. This is most effective if you don't say or do anything, you just immediately stop, hold tightly to the lead until, as Raineth said, she CHOOSES to make some sort of movement to loosen the lead, as soon as she does you start moving again. The way I try and explain it in training classes is something like this: If the dog is pulling forward away from you - stop still, no progress until they do something to relieve the pressure on that lead. When the lead is nice and loose and the dog is moving along AND when you give your time to move along cue, whatever it is, and the dog does - mark and reward. You can reward from your hand, or by dropping the treat on the ground where the dog can see it - mix it up to keep it exciting. If you give your time to move along cue and she doesn't - go to next step. If the dog is pulling back behind you (wants to keep sniffing instead of keeping up with you) - do something unexpected to make yourself more exciting than whatever has their attention - change direction, start running, wave your treats then reward as they catch up to you. For you I'd add, loose lead while sniffing, until asked to move on - she gets the "life reward" of being able to continue sniffing. If she progresses to any of the above, respond accordingly.

Exactly right, it's completely up to you what you're happy with. I know of a dog whose owners decided it would be allowed to sniff for exactly 5 seconds each time it stopped so they'd count down the 5 in their head then move her on every single time. She learnt the time period herself and eventually would move on herself after 5 seconds :laugh: For me, like you said, I'm happy for them to sniff whatever most of the time but I don't want them pulling me all over the place and if I'm sick of them all sniffing the same bush, taking turns to pee on it, then all sniffing the same bush again when it's freezing cold and I'm hungry :p then I want them to move own without a fuss. When I say be consistent, I don't mean you have to have that 5 second rule for every sniff but more that you decide ok, she can go to the end of the lead so it's straight but she won't get to pull any further than that, ever and that when you say leave it or come on or let's go or whatever you want your cue to be she will move on, every time. In these early stages you're actively training that every time so it's hard work for you but eventually she'll become conditioned to responding so it will become much easier and you won't have to think about it so much. Definitely build up your nice strong 'leave it' but don't forget if you're asking her to leave a really good smell you need to reward her with something even better if you want her to do it more willingly the next time. Easy way to do this is use that sense of smell for your benefit and use yummy smelly treats like cooked chicken, cheese, bits of hot dog, and as you're telling her to leave it waft that near her nose - when she leaves what she was smelling and moves a step forward with you again she gets the reward! Pretty quickly she'll be jumping at the chance to leave it because it means she gets the reward, then you can start randomising and phasing out your food reward and use things like praise instead. I actually only use 'leave it' for specific higher value items when walking, like if they want to sniff a dead bird or get a bit too interested in some poo they've found, and they get a bigger reward for it because I want them to associate that cue specifically with that big reward so they will leave those higher value items (if that makes any sense!). I use 'c'mon' in a happy tone for just time to move on because that's easier for them to do and I'm not going to give them as a high a value reward - but the reward still needs to be better than the pee they were just smelling :) Sorry, I'm trying not to overwhelm you with too much info, it's much easier to teach this stuff in person!

You can easily teach boundaries where 'sniffing what you can reach without pulling on the lead is allowed and sometimes it's ok to stop and have a good sniff but when I tell you it's time to move on you have to come'. You just have to be consistent about where the boundaries are.

You on the right track.....what I do is build more handler focus by changing direction, when she surges ahead, before she hits the end of the leash, turn around and walk briskly in the opposite direction and let her self correct, when she catches up make it fun and praise her for catching up and give her a treat......don't let her pull against the leash, turn around before she hits the end of it and what happens is the dog thinks it's a game. The correction is NOT a punisher, it's a "hey, we are going this way" but along with praise and treats for the right behaviour, you have a double reinforcer. If the dog values toys more than food, use a toy or ball as a reward for maintaining composure :) Tell her you just bought a prong collar and she will hate you with a passion :laugh: Correction = consequence that reduces likelihood of behaviour recurringr. Punishment = consequence that reduces likelihood of behaviour recurring. Therefore correction is punishment.

You are not ruining her! :p

Well, she's probably bigger than you so easy to forget she's still a pup! Most people have trouble really letting go when training their dogs but two things to remember: 1. Other people don't think about us anywhere near as much as we think they do And 2. People who don't put effort into training and have dogs that won't recall, won't listen to their owners and have no manners spend a lot more time looking silly than those of us who put in the effort early for the long term benefit! You always impress me with your knowledge and maturity Terri, don't be disheartened!

We also held on too long with a family cat growing up (she was 21, we'd had her since a kitten) and she ended up disappearing and presumably dying alone I'll never forget mum saying she regrets holding on to long so never want to do that myself. My only own pet I've had put to sleep so far was another cat, 19 years old, she had had what I suspect was a stroke and was nearly non-responsive. Rather than put her through tests I let her go. I know if it was me I'd rather go too soon than too late. I've been with quite a number of shelter dogs now and it is generally quite a peaceful experience for them, at least we try our best to make it so. They get spoilt with yummy food, attention and hugs on their last day and I spend the time between when they are sedated and when they get the final injection holding them, talking to them and being calm and happy. I don't want them to feel any stress from me so tears come afterwards. Whatever the reason for their euthanasia, I take comfort knowing they will never suffer again.

It sounds like I did a very similar thing when training Didi initially, it's much easier to do the snail's pace and stop start around your neighbourhood... a bit harder in the CBD or outside a shopping centre or a busy promenade along the beach. I suppose I'll just have to suck it up and be that weird girl with the crazy dog blocking everyone's way :laugh: See that's where being exciting, silly noises, changing direction and rewarding her for following you to show her what you do want can really help, rather than only preventing the behaviour you don't want. With lots of distractions around she may not even care that you've stopped, she's not even thinking about walking on lead so she isn't necessarily learning what you are actually wanting to teach her. But by actively getting her focus back on you you can start to teach her again. You'll still be the weirdo carrying on like an idiot with your dog though :laugh:

You're adding whole new criteria of unfamiliar stimuli (smells etc) and unpredictability when you go somewhere new so it becomes much much harder for her. The more new places she visits where you make it clear that you expect the same behaviours the more she'll generalise her behaviour, so lots of new places! It being much harder for her means you need to way increase your reward rate though, otherwise how is it worth her while to pay attention to what you're asking her to do? Reward history is really important too, so keep going with your rewards when she is in the more familiar environments. If she's going 10 mins on a loose lead she's doing a fantastic job so why wouldn't you pay her for that with treats, not just praise? The more often she checks in with you going "so, can I have a treat now?" when she's less aroused the better chance you have of her remembering to do that when she's more aroused. Remember as well the high reward rate is only while she's learning, the more socialisation and practice she has the easier it will become for her so you reduce the reward rate right down.

snails go sailing past!

Dogs thrive on predictable outcomes of their actions. I think with the work you've put in he's realised that if he follows your lead he can trust you to keep him safe. So rather than " better calm down" he thinks "no need to blow, paying attention and following mum seems to work better at getting me out of an uncomfortable situation"

Reward the good walking more!! Make paying attention to you more exciting than what's going on around her. So keep going with tight lead/collar equals no progress but every time she is in a nice position with a loose lead, mark and reward with a treat. A clicker is great for this. You'll get much quicker progress with a two pronged approach rather than just punishing the pulling. By rewarding her for a loose lead you're showing her exactly what it is you want her to do AND that keeping an eye on you even when there are other things going on is worth her while because she can earn rewards. Start in a lower distraction environment she's already ok in, build up the reward history and use great, high value treats in the more distracting environments. ETA - I reread and you say you are rewarding good walking but I suspect you need to up the reward level way more. With adolescent shelter dogs that are clueless on lead we are often clicking and treating literally every second step at first :) One more thing, if she really isn't listening rather than stopping and trying to get a sit I'd look at surprising her by changing direction, taking jogging steps and talking excitedly (again so YOU are more exciting than whatever else she's focussing on) then praise as she goes to catch up with you and the lead is automatically loose, then jackpot treats when she gets to you :)