Simply Grand

Hahaha, love that holiday report! "yeah yeah, sights, relaxing, but there were puppieeees!"

Did you read the conclusion? Yes but how is that suggesting that there are better options than no pull harnesses? It's saying we need to consider the benefits and risks of using them, which of course we should.

There are better options than these harnesses - that's the point of the article. They are promoted as "kinder" than traditional control tools. Fact is they aren't and it's another factor people need to consider when selecting how they walk their dogs. I agree that any walking is better than leaving a dog in the backyard 24/7 but the benign reputation these harnesses have is undeserved. That was the point of my post. The fact that the RSPCA now promotes these as the default option of anyone walking their dog is deeply concerning. I don't see that the article suggests any other options than just "train it". And like I said previously I'd like to see a comparison of the harm vs benefit of all the tools available before I'd agree that it is fact that these harnesses are not "kinder" than other tools like check chains and prong collars.

I think Diva may be suggesting it's actually aggression rather than prey drive. Pit bulls are often very prey driven towards smaller animals but aggression towards humans is a different issue. I'd suggest Craig Murray in Brisbane (dogschool.com.au) I haven't worked with them personally but have seen some demos and information about what they do and I think they would be helpful in your situation. Craig himself is very experienced in all sorts of training. I live on the Gold Coast now but having worked as a trainer in a shelter in the ACT I've known a number of Pit Bulls, they are great dogs, I really like them, but especially if they haven't had the greatest breeding temperament wise and start to life training and socialization wise they can be very challenging to live with! A good trainer's help, even just as an outside perspective, will be worth its weight in gold!

Totally agree, you need someone there in person to help you with this. It's sounding pretty serious and given that you've tried a few different things and the problem is gettig worse not better I think you'd really benefit from getting someone in before you try anything else. I'd also suggest keeping to dog at home safely away from people or animals she may do damage to until you can get some help. If she bites someone you could be in real trouble

Extender leads left to extend are problematic no matter how they are used, and down right dangerous if a dog is allowed to reach the end of it and 'snap' back. I doubt any trainer would not strongly warn against using them, particularly if the dog has pulling or any control issues. People do plenty of dumb and potentially damaging things with their dogs, especially if they are going without any professional or knowledgeable guidance. Plenty of people use check chains, prong collars, e collars and even flat collars wrong as well and cause damage to their dogs. I'm not sure that saying people should just "train their dogs" and singling out any one tool as problematic benefits anyone. The fact is plenty of people just don't, and won't, put effort into training their dogs like we do. So do what do we do? Say take your dog out and exercise it even if you can't control it? Say don't take your dog out unless you have committed to training to walk properly on a flat collar or Martingale first? That's not going to happen in many cases. Get rid of harnesses and have only check chains readily available as tools to try and manage a dog that doesn't walk nicely on a flat/martingale collar? I'd like to be able to weigh up the big picture of the costs vs the benefits of all the different tools available as well as how much the various tools available make the difference between a dog being walked or taken out at all or not, and which of those scenarios is more detrimental to the dog.

Willem, you can certainly let your dog play with other dogs if she wants to and you want to let her, but in order for you to have her respond to you when you need her to, even around other dogs, you might just need to remove the privilege for a little while. At the moment playing with other dogs seems to be the most exciting, rewarding thing to her. And the more she gets to practice that the longer it continues to be super rewarding for her. You want to show her that actually you are more fun and exciting than anything else, including other dogs so that whenever she has a choice you are her favourite option! The LAT info you've got is great, it's a fun and effective game that most dogs respond really well to :) I was also thinking that when you are walking her and see other dogs maybe rather than just having her sit or drop and stay still you can play a little game with her or ask her to do a bit of trick training and reward her highly with treats or praise or whatever she likes best so she starts to associate seeing other dogs with fun times with YOU. I wouldn't let her interact with them at this stage either, otherwise that still becomes the ultimate reward for her. BCs learn quickly and generally love figuring out what their owner wants them to do so I don't think it will take long to build that value in you over other dogs, and the better she gets at that the more you can then give her access to other dogs.

Love the good times photos Staffyluv! I tried to take some the other day but they turned out terribly, I'll try and get some more. I don't give treats to other dogs unless the owner is there to ask first, and usually don't anyway, I have to ration my treats enough just for my three, I don't want to give them away to everyone else! I'm sure some people think I'm mean about it when they see me give treats to my own but none of the others standing around giving me starving eyes. Although I'm careful about giving anything out if there is a crowd around, I don't want mine to snap at another dog over "their" treats. Re. The lead thing, it really worries me when people give the advice to other people to let their dog off the lead if the dog is uncomfortable or snappy on the lead. I get that some dogs react better off lead than on but what if they don't?? Don't test it in the middle of a dog park. The other day a guy came in with his BC on lead on a head collar, the dog was ok with other polite dogs, I watched him for a while, as like dee lee said, I don't let mine approach on lead dogs unless I've figured out why they are on lead and what they are like. I eventually let Quinn go over, they had a nice greeting and he was happy to interact with her, just standing around sniffing. A couple of times a younger, boisterous dog would approach the BC and I could see him lip lifting and growling at them to back off. A bit later a young female dog was in the BC's face (he was still on lead) and would not leave him alone. He was warning and warning and she was not listening. I said to her owner that the BC wasn't liking her in his face and she might want to move her dog away. She looked at me so blankly that I actually said, sorry is that your dog? She said yep and still did nothing, BC snapped and lunged and other dog eventually ran off. Apparently people were encouraging the BC's owner to let him off the lead as that was what the problem was. I didn't see this but not long after BC was off lead, same female dog was back in his face, wouldn't leave him alone and now he was off lead he could properly tell her off. I said there's about to be a fight, one second later of course there was. Anyway, that was a long story, but of course it looked like the BC had started it when really he 1. Shouldn't have been put in a group of dogs like that in the first place and 2. Was actually pretty good at warning and making it clear he was uncomfortable but neither humans or this dog listened. Ugh. Poor dog.

Omg, I was thinking about putting on the etiquette page not to bring animals other than dogs to dog parks as I'd heard of it happening but I thought surely it can't come up that often! I can't believe people are really that dumb! How scary for the poor possum and guinea pig

Yes, the ad is short on actual information about what the dog is like and what she will really need in a new home. The phrase "I am naturally protective of my foster mum" worries me - what does that mean exactly? Does she have aggression issues that will need work and management? I don't like using her past as a sob story either, or the number of times "foster mum loves me but cannot keep me". That seems manipulative to me, and like Wreckit says, the dog doesn't need someone taking her on with "oh poor little sweetie baby" attitude.

Yes, what Cosmolo says! And that's how I've used both front attach harnesses and head collars. It's exactly the same as how you train a dog to walk nicely on a flat collar - prevent reinforcement from doing what you don't want them to do, provide reinforcement for doing what you do want them to do - these things are just tools to allow additional physical control of the dog if for whatever reason the flat collar isn't enough.

I haven't had someone actually say they think I care more about the dogs than anything else but I'm sure some people think it! I don't care. I know what they mean to me and they are in fact the most constant, positive and motivational thing in my life. I try not to actually say that if I don't have to as I understand it might be a bit insulting to people but the fact is in really tough times it is the dogs that get me through, not anyone else. Having said that, I don't have kids or a partner so I guess my priorities may change down the track if I do.

Quinn's very confused about why I just got her up from snoozing on the couch, put her lead on and made her walk laps of the living room on her harness then on her collar :laugh: She walks fine on either but as a couple of other people have mentioned she is on the Easy Walk when I walk all three dogs together as if something happens I need to be sure I can control all three dogs. Jumabaar, thanks for the info on the research, that is interesting and I'd certainly like to know more about the impact of timeframes of use, both per day and over time, and what the difference is between the pressure load on the harness. I don't doubt that these harnesses certainly can cause damage if they are fitted too tightly and/or used for inappropriate activities but from what I understand they are actually meant to be used simply to give you additional control of a dog when you are training it to walk under control on lead. If they are used incorrectly, and it seems they often are, then of course they will cause problems, as would a flat collar, a check chain, a prong collar, a halti or anything else. So I guess my questions are 1. If used only as they are actually supposed to be what is the impact; and 2. Is the likelihood of them being used incorrectly so high that in reality they do more harm than good. And the third point that I think Steph made, would dogs that would otherwise not be walked at all be experiencing the lesser of two evils. ETA posted at the same time Steph.

These particular no pull harnesses are one of the worst on the market, they are known to do damage, the vets where I worked refused to stock them and warned clients not to use them due to injuries they had seen, including what I would call holes in the sides of the chest near the armpit where the harness had continually compressed and rubbed. I personally wouldn't use a Halti either since they have been proven to damage the sinuses and neck. A martingale is a much better option. Martingale are fantastic in that they stop dogs being able to slip their collar but I don't see that they are any more of a training tool than a flat collar. Of course they are both training tools but I think if someone is having issues training a dog on a flat collar a Martingale won't necessarily make it any easier.

Yes it does depend on head shape with head collars, there are various different styles and some just don't fit some dogs.

The story made me teary, imagine the relief!! The start of the story makes it sound like she is keeping him now?

Oh that's so sad Like Thistle said if they were genuinely concerned about the welfare of the dog they should have left it up to the appropriate authorities to investigate, not just stolen someone's dog!!

Denali, we used head collars a lot when retraining shelter dogs who were already big, strong and untrained and either never got walked or were used to pulling their previous owners around by the time they got to us. They are very effective if used properly but also very easy for a dog to learn to pull through and still be out of control on if not used properly. A dog on a halti/head collar really needs to be walking next to you for it to be effective and you use it purely to be able to physically hold on to them to prevent them being able to self reward by pulling to wherever they want to go. As soon as people start letting the dog go and then trying to yank them back by the head they are not using the halti effectively and are basically making useless and even harmful. It can also take some conditioning to get the dog used to the halti before you even start walking on it so harnesses are generally quicker to introduce and make it easier for people to hang on to the dog from the get go, with a bit more leeway for error if you don't get the technique right from the beginning.

(Not in response to anyone in particular) But the idea of the front attach no pull harness is that it is a tool to use when training your dog NOT to pull. So once the training is done, if done properly the dog ISN'T pulling on the harness, same as when you've trained a dog to walk on a collar without pulling. I know there are plenty of people out there who either don't know how or can't be bothered to use them properly and therefore the dog continues to pull against the harness, but that could be said of any training device. So I'm interested to know whether when the harness on but not being pulled against it causes the same issues.

Somehow I feel a bit sorry for your dogs, if they never get treats There is no way I would go to work if I only got praise & a pat from my boss for a job well done !! I don't think Gruf needs feeling sorry for! He has pretty good life by the sounds of it :) I do use treats a lot but I asked about how it works a while back because I didn't believe that my dogs were really choosing to leave super exciting things they wanted to play with to come over to me for just half a Goodo, and huski in particular explained about the 'reward experience' and how we build that up with our dogs and it's more than just the actual treat that becomes rewarding to the dog. So you can create a reward experience that is meaningful to the dog without treats too.

Are you trying to tell me you don't even get the sad eyes or purposeful sighs while you eat? What witchcraft is this?! Hahaha, I usually get Quinn sitting opposite me resting her chin on the coffee table, Saxon next to me in a 'beg' and Riley under the table lying against my leg. I have no sympathy, I know exactly how much food, treats, plates to lick, chewies and stuffed Kongs they get. They are not deprived!

Happy birthday boys!!! You are so lucky and spoiled with chicken AND eggs :D

No worries, I'll do it tomorrow when I'm on computer instead of phone :)

I have a Shetland Sheepdog and an Australian Shepherd, both sheep herding breeds that aren't really atypical but not that common. Happy to answer for them if you want? Although neither of mine have ever actually attempted to herd sheep!

Corvus