Simply Grand

Yes, so DAS or RSPCA have to be involved and if they can get in touch with the owners (the people who got him from DAS) and get surrender paperwork signed there is then a 72 hour "cooling off" period before he could be released to rescue or a new owner. If the owners cannot be reached and do not make contact within a 7 day period of DAS or RSPCA making all reasonable efforts to contact them, he could then be released as above. Given that he clearly can be caught quite easily by at least one person a coordinated approach to get him off the street and legally somewhere safe seems quite possibly. ETA and Franklin would be far from the first partly "feral" dog to go through that process and cope, even a number of Maremma have passed through DAS and RSPCA before.

Ha! Exactly. I don't understand how someone who really cares about a dog can let it just go off to roam suburban streets indefinitely.

I have actually heard of a bitch that needed mismate (abortion ) injections because he 'hot' to her. Can't verify its true but from a friend who works in the local Ve thee. Wouldn't surprise me. If he isn't desexed it would have to have happened sometime.

In the hills of Italy in the winter when they were left alone I imagine they hunted rabbits, foxes and the like. Maybe birds.

Poor baby girl thistle sounds like you are spot on about why it was so overwhelming for her, she must have felt like her safe home base was being invaded and she couldn't get away. I'd also say smell had a lot to do with it, I think it's really hard for us as humans to have any idea of just how sensitive there sense of smell is and how much they use it to pick up all sorts of things we are completely oblivious to. People can be so weird about ignoring dogs can't they? It's like as soon as you say "please ignore her" they just can't help but do the opposite. I actually quite like Cesar Millan's way of saying it - "no touch, no talk, no eye contact"- simple and clear.

I haven't owned or lived with Keeshonds but I went through a few rounds of obedience classes with a pair of them. They were pretty laid back in general, happy go lucky but to me they did show a bit of the Spitz "nah, I don't feel like it" attitude. When they wanted to they performed well though, and they were never any trouble when they didnt want to do something, theyd just stare off at something else :laugh: I think the key would be finding what really motivated them rather than trying to "make" them do what you want. I knew another one through the dog park and let's just say his owner very much though of him as her baby and he wouldn't always listen to her. Again, never caused any trouble just would run off to play when he felt like it and would make his own decisions about whether to approach other dogs, people etc rather than look to his owner but I suspect a just slightly firmer and more consistent, but still fun approach to training would help with that. I really like them :) ETA they'd be robust enough to play/run around with a lab too.

Oh btw, the new Minister said in response to mine an others' comments on FB that she would be 'seeking advice'.

It's not just about Franklin though Steve. Just because his FB page (which as mentioned has apparently been edited to remove not so positive comments) and a story in the Canberra Times say that everything is fine, no one feels threatened and he hasn't hurt anyone or any animal yet doesn't mean he won't. And doesn't mean that people don't feel threatened or concerned. I know if I was walking my three dogs on lead and they saw a large dog wandering around nearby they would likely bark and get excited, if I happened to drop a lead they may run across a road to try to go see him, putting them at risk. And also as metioned there have been cases of him causing near misses with traffic on the roads. We can't know that he isn't killing and eating people's pet rabbits and guinea pigs and chooks. We don't know that he's not setting off people's dog reactive dogs when their owners try to walk them at quiet times. We don't know that one day when he's sick or injured he we won't be able to move away when someone or some dog goes to approach him and he will therefore react with aggression. We don't even know if he's desexed so who knows how many unwanted litters are out there because he jumped a fence to a bitch in season. Not to mention it's illegal, and those laws exist for a reason.

Good advice already but I just wanted to say don't ever be embarrassed about calling in a trainer!! That's what they are there for and it is much more sensible to get the help early on than struggle along with a problem you are not sure how to get on top of. I for one think it would be fantastic if every new dog owner had a session or two with a good trainer right at the beginning, just to set things up on the right track :)

So exciting!! :D

I cannot believe the Minister is supporting leaving him roaming. Whatever her personal opinion it is clearly against the law. If I still lived there and was ever charged for one of my dogs roaming I would certainly be pointing out that the Minister has set a precedent for supporting it ETA I just commented on her FB page, I'll see if she responds.

That may well be what the local residents are thinking SM, but Maremma Rescue have said they would take so presumably they have the capacity to hold him and the contacts to find him a home if he is suitable for rehoming. There are also at least a couple of other farmers/property owners in the Canberra/Southern Highlands region who know Maremma and keep an eye on the pound and RSPCA in Canberra for any Maremma that pop up. It needs DAS or RSPCA to step in first though to go through the process of legally acquiring ownership before he could go anywhere.

In reality though if it comes down to DAS having to catch him when something goes wrong he will most likely be cornered and captured with the pole and wire and heaved into a truck, traumatising and possibly injuring him, probably prompting aggression, and greatly reducing any chance of him avoiding euthanasia. I'm not at all saying that's what the Rangers would want to do but that is what their procedures and resources allow (unless they have changed recently). Someone who either has a relationship with him or can build one and can get a slip lead around him gently, contain him and continue to build the relationship until he can be properly handled and assessed would be much kinder on him. And if he is not suitable for rehoming or a suitable property can't be found for him then a quick, humane euthanasia is better than being in pain and slowly dying of illness or injury while he wanders. ETA from the quotes in the article linked in the OP it doesn't sound to me like DAS or RSPCA are saying that they are ok with it, but more that they'd prefer to just avoid dealing with it, which I don't think is ok. If he does injure someone or cause an accident I think there would be a strong case that DAS is responsible. RSPCA are not responsible for roaming dogs, attacks or injuries in the ACT but I think they have a role to play in the welfare of Franklin. It would take resources to work with/treat/assess him though and with the community and media seemingly supporting him roaming it wouldn't be good press for RSPCA to capture then have to euthanise him, even if it would be best for the dog

I was sooooo confused for a while there, I was reading the post thinking I'm sure Roskyle is an Iggy breeder, what a coincidence that there's a dental service with the same name; and I had no idea animal dentists could treat hoomans as well Now that I've figure it out and watched the video...Riley my Sheltie would like to offer his services to the practice. He regularly performs this service for his sister Quinn, who doesn't enjoy it anywhere near as much as Forrest seems to be and just stares at me with sad eyes the whole time Riley works on her. Riley is also very keen to treat humans but so far has struggled to get anyone to let him past tightly clenched lips. ETA I think pointy little snouts are the key to the success of these canine practitioners!

Oh Snook, that's so exciting! I just saw on Gruf's FB page that they'd made friends and had to come and read about it :laugh: I reckon Justice smelling that Gruf what there every time he had the positive experience of visiting has probably helped him feel that Gruf isn't a threat so he was comfortable actually seeing him. I so hope they can be good friends.

As much as I like the idea of him being able to live freely if he wants to, I think in reality he is at risk and is also a risk to the community I think a coordinated approach should be made to catch him, and I think DAS does have primary responsibility for it. They know he is a roaming dog, regardless of whether they've had complaints about him, and he may not have hurt anyone or any other animal yet but that doesn't mean he won't, and if he gets hurt or sick and requires vet treatment how is he going to get it? I would like to see DAS and RSPCA appoint either a staff member or suitably qualified volunteer who lives in the area to establish a relationship with him and catch him as soon as practicable in a lower stress way, before a problem arises and DAS has to try and capture him more forcefully, which would be worse for him

Oh no! LG, could you PM me the kennel just so I know to avoid it if I need to kennel mine now I'm in Bris...

Sars has made it clear she was raising an issue that concerns her with regard to dogs in pounds in general and that this particular girl is the example that triggered her concern. It IS an issue worth considering and most of the people in this thread aren't in Canberra so may consider the issue in the context of their local pound or shelter, as may those who read the thread. It is not only a DAS issue, and Sars never said it was. I think it has also highlighted another issue around engagement between those directly involved in animal welfare/rescue and the wider community.

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General comments, not aimed at anyone in particular: Working in animal welfare is tough, for paid staff and for volunteers (and even paid staff are certainly not doing it for the money). There is NEVER enough money to do everything that ideally would be done for animals that end up in pounds and shelters so everyone involved has to do the best they can with what they have. Unfortunately things will not be perfect. Difficult decisions will have to be made and some animals will unfortunately have to suffer for the good of many more. People looking in from the outside, and even those right in the middle of it won't always be happy with all the decisions that are made. However we NEED people to question things. We NEED those on the outside looking in to sometimes say "hang on, what's with that?" because when you're in the middle of it you can't always see everything clearly. It is when people ask questions that we have to look at what we're doing and say "am I comfortable with the explanation I can give about this situation?" and if not, "can we do things differently?" Getting defensive or taking personal offense doesn't really help in a discussion about how things can best be done. We also NEED the general public/wider community looking at this stuff and asking questions, because that is where increased or redirected funding, political will, media coverage and raised awareness come from. There is no point keeping all the information and issues to ourselves within the industry and trying to change things without looking wider for help.

I bet the biggest problem in the parks dogs where were not previously allowed in is poo not being picked up! Fingers crossed people take responsibility and don't ruin for everyone else.

Pass the puppy and food thrown on the ground would be two things I'd be less than happy with. Agreed - neither are things I would include in our puppy classes! Definitely agree too!

Frenzied, you've taken personal offense where really none was intended. Sars is merely concerned about the dog and pup involved and as melz says, questioning things is important, in case they can be improved. I'm not very clear on what's happening with mum and pup now, although I'm very glad it seems they are ok (edit - I missed a post, I see they are both in a home now :) ) I am certainly disappointed to hear that pregnant mums and pups don't necessarily get taken by RSPCA anymore, although when I left (contract finished) changes were certainly afoot and I wasn't sure they'd be in the best interest of the animals. I really don't know the current situation though. Sars, re desexing - yes, if it is early enough in pregnancy a bitch can be desexed with the whole uterus including foetuses removed, in order for mum to be adoptable sooner, puppies not to be born in a less than ideal environment and resources to be saved. Sometimes it is too late though and it depends on the pound or shelter having the legal right at the time to proceed, as well as having access and funds for the vet to do it.

Wow, she's popped this week hasn't she! gorgeous girl :D

I bought just normal sand, not coloured, at Bunnings, from the garden/landscaping section. I think it was river sand...