Simply Grand

How cute!! Why get up and walk when you can just pull the toy to you But this is not sounding like good news for my friends! Sue Brown - Socks for Dogs, really??

Some friends of mine are considering getting a puppy later in the year. At the moment they are thinking of a cocker spaniel but still have lots of research to do. One of the things they (especially the house-proud husband ) are concerned about is whether little claws might do damage to their floating timber floors. I've told them if they keep them trimmed and filed, there shouldn't be any problem, especially with a smallish dog, but does anyone have experience with wooden floors and dogs? If they are running around, doing zoomies etc can they damage the floors? Also, am I correct in my understanding that cocker spaniels are non (or low) shedding, but require brushing and clipping like poodles? Thanks!

There are a million and one threads here about people going to off-leash parks and other dogs running up into their dogs faces while the owner says "Oh but he's friendly". Those threads never end well, regardless of the dog's intentions. I'm interested in this, and taking it ever so slightly off thread, does anyone here believe there is no way in the world their dog would not attack (ie provoke an attack) another dog ? I am pretty sure most of us feel like we know our dogs well enough to say that it would simply never happen to us. Put it this way, there aren't too many threads on DOL of dog owners who come in to tell stories of their dog ripping apart another. That said, we'd kinda like to assume that people who let their aggressive dogs off lead with awful outcomes, never thought their dog would attack either. So, given our dogs are animals, do you feel that you could 100% guarantee your dog would never provoke an attack on another in 'everyday' circumstances (ie no injury, bitch on heat, bitch defending pups, whatever) ? Or perhaps it's not that simple. I think it is possible to be extremely confident that your dog would never provoke an attack under everyday circumstances, but I wouldn't trust someone else telling me that about their dog, no matter how sure they were! I would only trust my own judgement once I know the dog well. Also, small dogs can get hurt accidently by big dogs who are just playing and mean no harm at all.

I don't have a problem in general with other dogs running up to my small dog, even if they are bigger than him but like GG85 said, I do tend to step in front of my dog and block the bigger dog to slow it down before it actually reaches mine. It also depends on the body language the approaching dog is displaying, and how I've seen it interacting with other dogs. After a couple of bad experiences with bigger dogs at the dog park - one of which was a big dog puppy getting carried away with playing, and the other an aggressive dog going for other dogs all over the place, including mine - I am now quite wary, and would put the safety of my dog above anything else. Picking him up would be a last resort and I don't think I would have done it in these circumstances, but sometimes it's the only way to quickly get them out of reach of another dog. Like you've said, you probably would have been better calling him back in this instance, and you're working on getting him reliably responding to you calling him off but in the mean time don't take if personally if a small dog owner gets worried!

Post number 150!! The world of Off Topic will be open to me, hooray! Thought I would post it here specially :cool:

Nushie, just make sure he can't climb his playpen and get out, or worse get stuck somehow, when no one's home. Not sure of the design of your pen, may not be possible to climb anyway Another vote for Kongs here. Also, for a cheap option, lots of dogs seem to like to play with things like the inside of toilet paper or paper towel rolls. Leaves you a big mess, but entertains them. They can throw it around then tear it up, then eat it

Controlled set-ups that build nurturing, "pack-drive" related behaviours. I don't know what that means! :cool:

Yay, good girl Honey :cool: and deelee

Hey BF, Zoe might well end up being the boss forever! When 1kg puppy Saxon came home I thought both cats would put him in his place. Grumpy old cat Chops made it clear from the start that she was the boss but poor younger boy cat Charlie didn't know what to make of this small creature. I was waiting for 5 year old, 5kg Charlie to put the puppy in his place. To this day (8 months later) Charlie still just meows pathetically when Saxon (now about the same size) jumps all over him I figure, well they sorted out the pecking order themselves and no one gets hurts, and if Charlie, the biggest, couldn't put the tiny puppy in his place, well he can deal with it. Poor sooky boy

I also meant to say, I wonder if it works with other species because it take all human emotions out of training. It is literally just operant conditioning.

I think it is unrealistic to think that any sentient being - including dogs - would respond how we expect 100% of the time. If humans are anything to go by, we don't respond how WE expect sometimes, let alone how others expect. In many cases we could say our dog has very reliable recall, or that under normal circumstances they will always recall, but there can always be unforseen circumstances. I don't think you could ever say 100% recall, you'd just be lucky if you never came across that 1 unpredictable situation.

Staranais, you're making perfect sense, don't worry! I agree with you, I think the clicker does create a different mood. I think the dog gets that he is supposed to learn a particular thing right now. But I'm not sure it could be the only means of training. I'm still new to this but it seems to be easier to teach specific behaviours/tricks than ongoing good behaviour with the clicker. For example, this week we're working on 'stand' and 'heel' because that's what we did at obedience. The clicker works quite well for these coz I can click as soon as Saxon gets in the position I want. He is coming along, although not as quickly as he did for shake. However, I don't see how I could teach him to leave the cat alone with the clicker... if I clicked whenever he wasn't bothering the cat I don't think he'd get what I was clicking him for, so I think I still need corrections and praise etc as well.

Fair enough, I agree first hand accounts would be interesting as well, I just thought it was an interesting topic... Sorry, Pete - I don't mean for you not to contribute with your ideas, thoughts and any comments you'd like to make. By all means. I just read your post as though I was asking what are the advantages of clicker "training". I know those, just was interested in those who were saying they couldn't get their dogs to do things and how clicker training now has their dog learning to learn etc. etc., as to what it is that they think the clicker has helped them with as handlers and perhaps why they think their previous methods weren't working or not working so well. I guess, to a degree, I don't understand why people don't go "wow!! I used a verbal marker today and it worked great!!" and that it seems to be the clicker that all of a suddens opens up the door-ways for both dog and handler. And by clicker "training" and seeing the results, do people then realise more clearly the concept of reward training, effects of good timing etc. etc.? So I apologise if what I posted sounded wrong to you. Please feel free to contribute. ETA: And oh, hey! Where do I get off? It's not 'my' thread anyway - it's Saxonpup's. Sorry if it seems I've taken over, Saxonpup. I am pleased that you have found success by using the clicker where you couldn't before. Happy days training with your dog . Very happy to have this discussion in the thread Erny. It would have been a short thread otherwise - "I love clicker training" "me too" "me too" "Good." Your question made me think too. I understood the concept of mark and reward, and *thought* I was doing it it properly. I was using "goodboy" said quickly as one word as my marker and trying to treat as quickly as possible - actually now that I think about it, I was trying to use the treat to mark but thinking I was marking with the word... I thought it was working quite well because Saxon actually learnt the commands he knew pre-clicker quite quickly. I decided to try the clicker coz I wanted to get him reacting more quickly - as in sitting quickly every time, not sometimes casually lowering his butt to the ground while he considered whether the treat I had was good enough! - and had read that a clicker was good for differentiating between just doing something, and doing something properly. I guess I didn't really believe I would get better results from a better marker word, like "yes", than I would with what I was already doing but the clicker seemed more distinctive. Now realising I wasn't marking properly anyway, I probably would still have had better results using a clear marker word. But the clicker has made it really easy for me to get the timing exactly right, and be really consistent. Also, it's really clear to Saxon what the point of the clicker is, and I'm not sure that anything I said would get through to him in the same way. Like luvsablue said, I'm always babbling away to Saxon but the clicker will only ever be about learning that I want him to do something.

Not sure yet... we'll see how he goes learning the hard stuff!

Yes, now that you (and Kavic) mention it, Saxon checks in with me too. I hadn't realised I was doing it but at the dog park I very regularly call him over just to make sure he is aware of me, and isn't totally distracted by something else. That's not the same as an emergency recall, I know, but it seems to stop him going into that zone where you can't get their attention. He also gets a treat if no other dogs are around, or cuddles if they are, then sent off to play again, so he knows coming to me doesn't = funs over. deelee, like you've realised, you do have to do it heaps. RRR says at least 3 times per day everyday, for life, BUT it's important to use your particular command only when they're already coming to you while they're learning - and even when they know it, still keep up the rewards everytime they respond. The aim is that it becomes an automatic response for them, not a process where they think "hmmm, is it more fun to stay here, or to go to mum..." I actually do it basically whenever Saxon is heading in my general direction when we're in public, especially at the dog park. He often goes over to have a drink, then comes back to check what I'm doing, so I always use the "saxsaxsax" call sounding really happy, crouch down and then give lots of cuddles/treats when he gets to me. You're right, it won't work if she's off having fun and you just introduce the command when you want her to come over to you. You need to get her coming towards you first, will she follow you if you start to run in the opposite direction from her?

Good for you Michelle and Georgia! I've just started obedience with Saxon too. He's 10 months old, earlier would have been great but timing didn't work out so we only started last month. The basic stuff we've done so far in the first two classes is a bit of a revision for him but I'm looking forward to getting into the more advanced stuff as we pass each level. The first lesson was hilarious, the first thing we did was "charge" our marker word, which Saxon already knew, and he was looking at me very suspiciously while I was saying "good" then treating him for doing nothing. It was like he was thinking "what's the catch here?" Then he started half going into drop like he thought he really should do something to earn these fantastic treats In the second class he still seemed suspicious, like he was thinking "I still don't get why I'm getting so many great treats just for sitting, dropping and walking, there must be a catch, but I'll enjoy it while I can". So funny.

Happy birthday Bert! Obviously Bert and Sally were much to busy partying to pose for photos

I think an important point of Really Reliable Recall is that you use a DIFFERENT command for the emergency recall than you use for your normal "come over here" command. I think that's why a whistle would work, but you don't necessarily need to use one if you don't mind making an idiot of yourself! Definitely don't use your usual 'come'. Saxon will come to me when I call his name and/or say 'come' in normal situations - ie there's nothing better to do! - but in higher distraction situations like at the dog park, out walking or accidental escapes I use a high-pitched "saxsaxsaxsaxsax" call. Sounds kinda weird but gets his attention and mostly makes him come over to me. Whenever he comes to me when we're out in public, but particularly after I use that call, I give him a huge fuss - food treats if I have them plus lots of praise, pats, cuddles and kisses. RRR says do this for 30 seconds each time they respond to your emergency recall command. You teach it by doing it when they're coming towards you anyway, so I guess if you can tell your dog is happy to see you and is running over to you, use your command or whistle until they get to you then reward HEAPS! Try and do this several times a day every day so that if you actually need it, it's conditioned. That's the gist of it, but I still think the RRR dvd is a good investment, I got it from the US for only around AU$40 over the internet.

I decided to start clicker training with Saxon, my 10 month old puppy, during the week. After a couple of days worth of short sessions to condition the clicker, Saxon seemed to "get" it yesterday. It took me two days of training sessions last weekend without the clicker to teach him "shake" with his right paw. I just taught him "shake" with his left paw with the clicker in less than 10 minutes! He's now doing both paws, depending which hand I hold out, yay! I'd never heard of clicker training before DOL, what a great discovery!

UN-BE-LIEVABLE! That's just... no words...

Oh yay, puppy cuddles for you tomorrow! Assuming you're getting a pet and not a show dog, I'd go with your instincts on the day. I know you need to consider temperament, "talkativeness" etc for your particular situation, but I bet there will be one that you are drawn to the most and that will be the one for you ;) Saxon was one of a litter of 4 boys and I was drawn to him for some reason in the first photos I saw (really don't know why, it wasn't like you could tell much about 4 little fatties piled on top of each other with their eyes shut ) and then when I met them and cuddled them all I just kept going back to him. So he was the one for me

This thread is actually freaking me out a lot. As most of you will have gathered, I have an "oodle" (toy poodle x maltese) bought via the internet from a "backyard breeder" I guess you'd say. He is the first dog I've ever had, I actually did quite a lot of research, based on my anectodotal knowledge of the "Moodle", understanding this was not a purebreed, but not knowing anything about purebred dogs, and having the impression of pure poodles as overly delicate, prissy, overly groomed difficult dogs. I know now that the Poodle qualities of my poodle x dog are the things I love best. However, there are many things I love about him and I don't know what my next dog will be. From reading this thread, had I enquired with many poodle breeders, or now with more knowledge about what I actually wanted in a dog, havanese, bichon frise, lagotto, lowchen etc...I would have been dismissed as a time waster! I rent my house, though I have permission for pets, I have no landline, I've never had a dog before, I work full time - but I have put huge effort into understanding my dog, priortising my puppy's needs, providing him the right environment, training, discipline, activity and fun. And he is a clever, confident, lovely dog. My point is - if you want to make purebred dog ownership the ideal for the general public you have to accept the enquiries from the general public. Many of the members of the public (including me) will be ignorant. However, it's a fact that if the demands of the market at large are not met by purebred breeders, you have to accept that people will go to other sources, such as chain pet stores and bybs! And from the sound of this thread, I may not ever get a purebreed. I want another dog so what do I do?

So true! Me giving Charlie a pill as a kitten - Pick up Charlie and cradle him in the crook of my left arm as if holding a baby. Position right forefinger and thumb on either side of cat's mouth and gently apply pressure to cheeks while holding pill in right hand. As Charlie opens mouth, pop pill into mouth. Allow Charlie to close mouth and swallow. Charlie swallows, licks his nose, open his mouth and check, and pill is gone. All good! What an easy puddy cat Me giving Charlie a pill every time after that - Go through the above. Charlie swallows, licks his nose, open his mouth and check... think oh good, pill is gone. Find pill on floor half an hour later. Repeat previous several times. Following this, see rest of original post. And if you think giving pills is bad, try giving a cat a bath! How can a 5kg cat be stronger than fully grown adult applying all her weight! I literally have scars from claws climbing up my chest *sigh* Me giving Saxon pills - don't even bother trying buddy, you have two cat siblings and you got nothin'. That pill is down your throat

I love the stories of bonding with a baby, and I've had most of my pets since they were babies, but I think the amazing stories of coming across the special resuces/adoptions/fosters are almost even more special. To have these creatures who have been through so much show trust and happiness is so amazing. For me it's my old adopted puddy cat - I love the puppy and the other cat just as much - but it's such a different feeling to provide a happy home to someone who may not have otherwise had a chance at it. Absolutely nothing wrong with giving a baby of any species a good home. but good on anyone who takes on an animal who has had a difficult start, and accepts all that comes with that

Just wanted to update you on this situation. After reading everyone's posts, and my own experience with the other nearby dog park, I realise that I am very lucky to have a local dog park where most owners have some awareness of dog etiquette, many dogs are well behaved, and there is space to get away from others if necessary. However, I still strongly believe that it comes down to responsibility and judgement for your own dog, not dog parks in general. For me the benefits still outweigh the risks. There are those people who don't care what their dogs do, and those who think that play at the dog park is an acceptable substitute for walks/exercise/training (just to be clear I often go to the park but a 30 minute walk first is usual practice, then free play for a while, and do regular training at home, and obedience). Anyway, on the weekend we came across this same dog from the OP again. He came with a different member of the family, who came in, walked to the far end of the park and sat on the bench there for the rest of the time. The dog (5 month old GSD puppy) was left to entertain himself. I let him briefly greet Saxon, without realising it was him, then I decided he was too rough and we moved away. Some time later Saxon was playing with some other dogs and the GSD came running over. I saw him coming, called Saxon, who ran over and sat between my feet. As the GSD ran up I grabbed his collar. Saxon reacted with barking, I grabbed his collar too and held both apart, waiting *sigh* for the owner of the GSD to come get his dog, or at least call him. He didn't. Eventually the GSD relaxed and sat. I called Saxon away, he had a bit more of a play with other dogs, then we left. Saxon and I will not have anything more to do with this particular dog, unless his owners change their approach, it is not worth the risk. I feel sorry for the dog though, he's only 5 months old. What if he had been a cm closer and had bitten my lip? I could have dealt with it, but that could maim a child, or even a smaller adult, for life and after much thought, I decided I would have reported it, which could result in a dangerous dog order. I say that because the family didn't have control of their dog right up close BUT more importantly same family left their dog unattended the next time they came to the park. Recipe for disaster. I don't expect an answer from anyone, I just think it is sad