Simply Grand

Ummm, I don't see how it's doing anything you can't do with a normal leash and a harness or collar, plus your dog carrying something if that's something they enjoy. The creator says it's about the dog-human bond approach to training, but I feel like if you have a good bond and training relationship with your dog you wouldn't need the We Leash anyway, and if you don't then just using this piece of equipment won't create it. It's cute though, I love seeing dogs happily carrying stuff with them :)

I'm of no help but best of luck finding the perfect dog, I'm sure you will and there are some excellent Rottie breeders on the forum. You are providing a brilliant service, good on you.

I like Jeff, and it suits him! I've just discovered the 12 week old foster puppy I'm getting tomorrow has been named Mervyn...he's a BC, I don't know that it suits him I think I may be giving him a nickname :p

So many people won't do it though TSD, even with one on one instruction people that aren't intrinsically motivated to put time and effort into training, stimulation and effective management of their dogs won't do it. We need a whole mentality shift when it comes to dog ownership in Australia if we are to make wide spread education campaigns on that sort of thing effective. I know it sounds like I'm being negative and cynical but I've experienced it time and time again, trying to get people who say they want help to implement even simple changes, as I imagine you have too, let alone trying to get through to people who don't even see there is a problem. It is of course a marketing issue too, campaign slogans like "Adopt, don't shop" and "Desex" get through to people without them having to think much. "Carefully choose a suitable dog for your lifestyle, give it appropriate training, stimulation, and management, do your own research into what is best health wise and don't be an irresponsible jerk" doesn't have quite the same ring to it... ETA - not aimed specifically at you TSD, I know none of that would be news to you!!

You also mentioned in a previous post that you may have difficulties keeping an entire dog if you lived in the ACT or SA. I can tell you that I had no issues having entire dogs in the ACT, I got mine as puppies so they were registered for lifetime registration prior to the six month age limit when desexing is required, one remained entire until he was fully grown at 13 months (small breed), when he was desexed because he had a completely undescended testicle, which increases cancer risk, the other remained entire the whole time she lived there with me. No one came knocking on my door once they turned six months insisting I produce proof they'd been desexed. Nor were rangers patrolling the streets or parks looking for entire dogs. A permit is available to keep a dog entire, provided it meets certain requirements which include being registered with a recognised canine body, but even without a permit entire dogs that end up at the pound or RSPCA in ACT are not held to ransom until they are desexed, they are released to their owners generally with no issues. If your dog gets out once or twice and doesn't cause any problems but ends up impounded the government is NOT going waste any time trying to force you to desex. However for dogs that are constantly roaming, or that are causing problems with people or other animals, that are getting into other people's property etc etc the laws in place give the Rangers options for trying to those owners to do SOMETHING to reduce the impact of their dog on others. I don't think anyone here would disagree with you that desexing (for non-medical reasons) is the easier, more convenient option and that of course entire dogs can be, and by many of us are, managed in other ways. But as I said above, most people don't do it. And unfortunately the most efficient use of resources for Australia at the moment when it comes to the issue of reducing unwanted and unplanned-for litters is to promote desexing.

...that is what happens if you give a 'straight' answer :) ...my understanding is that also the 'reproduction' is a kind of behavior, and as even the RSPCA admits, there are alternative methods to address this specific behaviour respectively the drive that leads to such behaviour. However, as the alternative methods are more complicated and more time consuming and therefore less convenient, people tend to choose de-sexing - not for the welfare of their dog, but for their own convenience. But that's the exact reason why the RSPCA encourages people to desex! Because they are well aware that most people do not and will not use the more complicated, time consuming and less convenient methods. Therefore the only way to prevent unplanned, unwanted litters is to get people to desex their pets. And because it is the RSPCA and the AWL and the council pounds and the other shelters and the rescue groups that then have to deal with these unwanted dogs they target the EASIEST, most convenient way to reduce the problem. Do you really think the RSPCA or any other regulators are going round to houses where entire dogs are safely contained and not causing problems, or up to random people walking their well behaved entire dogs on the street and saying they have a problem with those dog being entire?

Hahahaha so good! Happy girls :D

Gosh it's hard to get a straight answer from you Willem. So yes, you believe all dogs should be left entire unless the dog's life can be improved or saved (medically I assume you mean) by desexing? And it is because you believe desexing is pushed as a convenient alternative to training, so people are desexing and not training their leading to behaviour problems and aggression in dogs? Is that your position?

Neither perse nor I said said you did Willem. We were agreeing with each other that there can be impacts of bitches in season being out in areas other dogs frequent, beyond the impact on the individual bitch and their owner. Mandatory obedience training, if even possible to implement, would not solve the issue of accidental, unplanned, poorly planned, unwanted etc etc etc litters. A beautifully trained bitch pottering in her yard while in season can still be mated by a beautifully trained entire male who jumps the fence. true, a lot of things can happen which are very unlikely - and if they happen, are the numbers resulting from those accidents really the ones that causes the overpopulation and problems in the pounds?...I don't think so, and also other countries, e.g. Sweden with less than 7% of the dogs de-sexed, clearly indicate that this is not the case. Accidents will happen in Sweden too, but the chances that it happens are small, hence no impact on pound numbers. I think the correlation between those accidents and owners who don't care much about their dogs at all - whether it is general training or state - is pretty obvious. ...have a look at my response to Jules...what else do I need to say :) ? ..well, I recall a thread where I was called names from a few members here when I mentioned that I walked my dog even though when she is on heat... I understand that de-sexing can be one tool in the box for good dog management, and in special scenarios it can add quality to a dog's live, however, IMO the public presentation is IMO pretty one-sided and misinforming....and many people fall into this trap just to struggle later with all the unwanted consequences. Hence I thought demonstrating that dogs in heat (and in most other states) are still normal dogs via the footage might help some dog owners to make a more balanced decision. Unfortunately some authorities and organisations push the 'mandatory de-sexing approach' instead of a 'mandatory obedience training approach' for dog owners. While both of these options might be hard to enforce anyway, I think the later one is much smarter and would achieve by far the better results. Sorry, I'm still not clear on what your stance is. Am I correct in thinking you believe that all dogs here in Australia should be kept entire unless there is a specific reason to desex them? If yes, what are your specific reasons for believing that? A clear, direct answer would be very much appreciated, in the interest of valid discussion.

Interesting, this article just popped up in my newsfeed: "Switzerland Scraps Mandatory Dog Training" http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-37418371

Willem, is it just mandatory/encouragement of desexing you have an issue with or all desexing? Do you think people should be leaving dogs entire as a general rule, with desexing only done in certain circumstances?

Neither perse nor I said said you did Willem. We were agreeing with each other that there can be impacts of bitches in season being out in areas other dogs frequent, beyond the impact on the individual bitch and their owner. Mandatory obedience training, if even possible to implement, would not solve the issue of accidental, unplanned, poorly planned, unwanted etc etc etc litters. A beautifully trained bitch pottering in her yard while in season can still be mated by a beautifully trained entire male who jumps the fence.

I think the thing with desexing is it comes down to responsibility. Truly responsible owners who research and learn and put in effort are of course quite capable of managing entire dogs without behaviour issues, oops litters or breeding with no clue what they are doing. Those are generally the same owners who have looked into the pros and cons of desexing and don't just desex at six months because "that's what you do". However many many many pet owners are not that responsible. You're kidding yourself if you think most people are willing and able to manage entire dogs. Most people can't or won't properly manage their desexed dogs, so adding a trail of unplanned for, poorly bred puppies that go to more irresponsible homes or get dumped with pounds and rescues isn't helping anything. In an ideal world of rainbows and sparkles everyone who has a pet would be responsible and give it perfect health, training, welfare and management but it just doesn't happen. Willem, in another thread you said you aren't too worried about blatantly aggressive dogs because surely their owners arent idiots and manage them properly. I can tell you plenty of owners of aggressive dogs do nothing of the sort, just the other day someone brought a dog to the dog park that not only had instigated fights there before but was clearly way over-aroused before they even got in the gate, got in one fight almost immediately then seriously attacked another dog, shattering its leg and requiring $6000 worth of surgery. The attacking dog's owner did nothing to prevent or stop the attack and said the old "he's never done that before" then said the dog, an entire male, had just been mated for the first time the day before. That's the reality of many many pet dog owners. And now that aggressive dog with a clueless owner has been bred from and will produce puppies that may well have a tendency towards aggression, who will be homed by breeders who clearly aren't responsible and are therefore unlikely to provide responsible guidance to the puppy owners, therefore starting the whole cycle again.

I've seen fights between other dogs start when an in season bitch has been brought to a dog park, even if the bitch has left and the smell is still there. When I take Quinn out when she's in season I drive her somewhere where we are unlikely to run into other dogs, although she actually gets pretty lazy so needs less exercise than usual. And I've never noticed her losing any of her normal behaviour or obedience, still responds to all my cues etc

changed my mind, don't worry!

PK, I think she would actually be ok with it, she can be around dogs at even a close distance and can actually interact with them by sniffing the same patch of ground, and even sniffing each other. It's not dogs just being there that she has issues with per se, it's trying to establish a dog to dog relationship with individual dogs. Her thing seems to be that she hasn't learnt "dog language" and by nature she is basically a dominant bitch (not in the alpha, pack leader blah blah sense but in the won't tolerate rudeness, wants other dogs to listen to her type of way) but hasn't learnt how to translate that to getting along with other dogs, unless they are very submissive to her. Quinn, my own girl, is the same but because she has had good socialisation her whole life she has learnt all the subtleties of polite greeting, respecting space, avoidance, diffusing situations, warnings etc, whereas Molly goes straight from initial engagement to "I'll fight you" if the other dog doesn't show complete submission. Initially she had progress actually at the dog park (with very close guidance from me - obviously not recommended unless handler knows what they are doing!!) - in learning appropriate greetings and interactions but then she discovered that she liked toys when a dog she had befriended and played started playing with a ball and Molly decided it was worth having and started resource guarding basically anything, meaning all other dogs suddenly became a threat before they even interacted with her, so that's where she went backwards. I don't think I said it before, but I had another foster here a week or so ago for just over a week, a six month old female, and after some careful initial introductions they figured out how to interact and would play together and Molly started realising she didn't need to fight for the toys, there are enough to go round, and that she could use more subtle warnings if she wasn't happy about something. They were nowhere near being alone together but it it did show me that Molly is capable of learning more appropriate behaviour. So since that experience I've taken her back to the park and stayed outside walking around the fence doing lots of LAT, positive association stuff, and she is going really well with it. She is actually very clear in her body language if you know what you are looking at so its clear when she becomes over-aroused, or anxious. Which is great for me, but still probably too subtle for someone who doesn't know what they are looking at.

Those cows are not desexed and aren't showing any aggression?

http://www.rspca-act.org.au/pet-week :D

Thanks PK, yep I got her a Baskerville muzzle and we are working on the training. I had already started training her with a soft muzzle in case she needed to see a vet urgently or something and she is going ok with the Baskerville, so far it has meant lots of licking peanut butter, which she enjoys. I've gone right back to basics with her re counter conditioning and LAT, after initially having good progress in her feeling ok around other dogs then having her go backwards, and she is very responsive to it. But like you say PK, I'm really worried about a new owner taking her issues seriously. If the average joe watched her with me they would barely see the issues, and if someone understood the importance of the close management required it would be fine, but the problem is people don't. I've had a fair few conversations with people saying "oh it's just coz she's on lead", "oh my dog wants to be boss too, I just tell him off", "oh she's had a tough life, she just needs love", "don't worry, my dog's dominant, it'll tell her off" etc etc etc when I don't let them interact. We will do the VB consult and the meds, because of course it's worth trying. And I'm contemplating enrolling her in the local obedience club once she is muzzle trained, I wanted to do that with her initially but I know I need to have her comfortably muzzled just in case someone's dog gets loose and bolts past and scares her. ETA and the other thing in the back of my mind is that she is definitely going to go backwards with moving and learning to trust someone new, and if it is going to go pear shaped and she is going to be PTS in the end I'd rather it be done with me, who she now knows as her whole world, than after further distress for her. But we aren't at that point yet.

Willem, I have seen new and escalating behaviours from her during the time I have had her and as she has been exposed to more situations. And that is all I will say to you in regards to this dog.

I feel for the guy, currently having a Houdini foster dog who I keep inside and who has smashed two windows amongst other things in her escape efforts and easily jumps the full story down to the ground once she's broken the window, but since that she is tethered to my bed now when home alone (I don't like tethering in case they get tangled and injured but I couldn't keep leaving work to go and get her when she got out!) and I'm fund raising for a metal run with floor and roof to go with her to her forever home. If the guy had just bought a run in the first place he could saved himself a lot of money!

I read about her injuries before and wondered whether "multiple puncture wounds to her skull" was accurate, or whether they meant scalp. If they punctured her skull multiple times god, she's lucky to be alive!

Aww, clever mumma duck! How cool. I can just imagine the face plant :laugh:

Good news ellz! What an idiot the owner is...maybe the dog could conveniently wander out an open door/gate and end up the pound, that might make the owner think! (not serious, although it would serve the owner right)

it is not about punishing the dog (any training, with or without punishment would be the responsibility of the owner), but about self-defense, and that does - IMHO - justifies any aversives if required. If the guy is working on this site, he doesn't have to accept that a dogs is humping him if he doesn't want it. If the owner doesn't respond to the complaints, the next time the dog is humping the guy - and the guy can't help himself otherwise - give the dog a good dose of pepper spray into the mouth and the guy won't see the dog again. It might be a big drawback for the future training of the dog, but that's the responsibility of the owner, not the victim that just defended himself. I didn't even read this comment of yours before Willem but I can't believe you are advocating pepper spraying the dog in the mouth in this situation. First, presumably if the boss doesn't know about this issue the owners don't either and therefore haven't even had a chance to address it, secondly pepper spraying a dog, particularly in its own home could easily end up in an animal cruelty charge (if someone did that to mine without alerting me that the dog was behaving inappropriately, unless they were in the middle of being seriously attacked, I'd be pursuing it hard and sueing if possible), thirdly I don't think pepper spray is legal for civilians so there's the risk of charges for that, fourthly, pepper spray in the mouth could do a whole lot more than "set back the dog's training", it could kill it if the throat swelled and prevented breathing, and finally what a great way to escalate the situation with a dog already showing aggression. Fortunately ellz and son are far to sensible to listen to such a dumb idea. ...you obviously didn't read my post #15 ...what a pity... I did actually. That's why I didn't bother reading your following posts too closely. Doesn't change my response above.