Smartypaws

Belgian Shepherd is on my short list for my next dog too. I was leaning toward the Malinois, but do not know enough about them yet to make a final decision. I think they may be too active, even for me! Feel free to PM me why you decided a Belgian over a BRT too . I have had my eye on a BRT for about 7 years now......so I would really need to hear the negatives to sway me away I think.

Hey poodlefan, can I ask why? I don't know any in the flesh, but they read well in print for some people. Curious to know what the issues might be..... Are you talking about the Soft Coated Wheaten? Well, it's a terrier... like a Jack Russell is a Terrier. Independent, quick to react, tend to be intolerant of other dogs.. far more energetic than the Lagotti in my limited experience. Here's a breed review People need to remember that all non/low shedding dogs are not alike. A poodle, a Bichon, a Bedlington, a SCW, a lagotto.. all VERY different dogs. You need to figure out what sort of dog you want before you look towards coat type. You also need to know that the words "low or non-shedding" and "high grooming needs" go hand in paw. If you like poodles, clip em any way you like.. you can have them in just about any length of hair, curly, straight, clipped muzzle and feet, teddy bear look. As fru fru says, its just hair for pity's sake. If you want a dog that's only 50% poodle because of a hair style, you're only getting 50% of all the other attributes of this charming breed.. and you WON'T get one from a responsible breeder. You won't even get 50% of the best poodle attributes because no poodle breeder worth their salt would sell one to a DD producer. Thanks poodle fan...and I completely agree that low-shedding equals high grooming needs and that all dogs with these coat types are not alike . Thanks for the link too.

Hey poodlefan, can I ask why? I don't know any in the flesh, but they read well in print for some people. Curious to know what the issues might be.....

I second the lagotto . It is the breed I have suggested to a friend who was after a Spoodle .......and has a 'dislike' of poodles too!%^$# Or a soft coated wheaten terrier. Seriously though, I just hink people should get over this mis-perception of poodles. They are fantasitc dogs (if responsibly bred ), who shed little, are incredibly smart, athletic and very affectionate. Oh, and be sure to tell your friend that Spoodles may indeed shed. I had one just go through a training course I teach and she shed like no bodies business.....much to the chagrin of her mis-informed owners . Oh....the website "wheredopuppiescomefrom.com" has been great to share with my misinformed, DD wanting friends too (thanks to the Doler who gave it to me ).

Hi Beth!! How are you going!! How is Elsa....and Chardy....and who is your new baby?? And Mia says happy birthday to her sister too! :D Yes indeed, the Leo world is a small one . Mia is fantastic! Still the loveable goofball she has always been. I can't believe that you don't find grooming your girls a big job? But then again, you are a dog groomer, so must enjoy it to some degree . I also think Mia has an exceptional coat - long, thick and easily matted, but she is also desexed. I coat king her regularly, and in summer, clip her tummy, the insides of her back legs and sometimes even the back of her front legs - this helps with checking for ticks too, a big problem around here. For me personally, with two young kids in the house now, I do find the hair everywhere painful. Of course, this is not totally Mia's fault, Sax also adds to the furry carpet :D. It didn't bother me so much before the children. Great advice for Pointee too! Leos are just fantastic! It would be so nice to catch up again.....wish we were in NSW still so we could come to the fundays!

Oh, I am familiar with this too! There are some people who don't seek me out for advice anymore as they haven't liked what I have had to say. Ahhh, "should I mate my two unregistered, agressive SBTs? They attack each other all the time!" - answer "NO!". This afternoon I sent my friend an email with the links you guys have provided and a few words to say that I love her and her family and want them to find the best friend they possibly can. And, if I can educate her towards the best way of doing that without impacting on the potential sufferring of the many, many dogs that are farmed for profit then all the better! She is coming with me to a show at the end of the month - at Durack (29/30) if any of you will be there . Hopefully if she gets to actually see some suitable pure bred dogs and meet some good registered breeders she will be prepared to wait for the right puppy.

Thanks everyone for your posts. I agree that finding more info on puppy farms and showing it to my friend may help her to understand how important it is to carefully choose where her puppy comes from. She is a very intelligent person, and I have no doubt that the puppy they end up with will be loved and cared for, she is just like so many others that do not think about the realities of puppy farming because they have never had to. They do not realise that the cute puppy in the window at the local pet store may have parents that are living in squalid, inhumane conditions, kept alive only to breed…..and breed…..and breed. I am also flabbergasted at the vet friend, but in all honesty, cannot say for certain that the on-seller isn’t getting pups from the cattle and horse, rolling hills and room to run variety of farm………but sadly I think we all know better. The vet also said the on-seller took good care of the pups and they were vaccinated and wormed etc……of course, we also know that isn’t the point. This on-seller has also created more demand for these pups….who yes Poodlefan, are probably way to young to be leaving their mums. Oh, and megan, thank you for sharing Lucy’s story . It sounds like you are both lucky to have each other.

I feel really depressed today ……after having a discussion with a very good friend of mine about her plans for a puppy for her family. I have known this person 20 years and she is well aware of my views on animal welfare, particularly when it comes to puppy farming and DDs. The last discussion we had (last week) centred around me explaining why getting two puppies to stop your 4 children fighting over just one was a bad idea, and why a “spoodle” isn’t a breed and “Puppy world” isn’t a breeder! We then went on to discuss what traits were important for her family when it came to choosing their new family member, and we shortlisted a few breeds that might match and agreed that I would help find a “good” breeder for her when the time came. Today she tells me that her friend (who is a vet!!) has a client who buys whole litters from “farms”, brings them back to her place and raises them with her children to then on sell!@%$%^! And that she was going to see this person as it would ‘save her time’ finding a breeder(!!) and the puppies would be used to kids. I almost slammed the phone down in her ear. With composure, I instead asked her to join me at a dog show at the end of the month where she could see some of the breeds on her shortlist and meet some breeders. Oh and I also said something along the lines of, “if people don’t have the time to spend meeting breeders they probably have no business buying a puppy who is going to take up a heck of a lot more time over the next 10-15 years or so!” I also explained what may have been meant by "farms"....she was thinking of the horse and cattle, rolling hills and room to run variety. Hopefully, I still have some sway with this person and can educate them before they buy a puppy. Anyone have words of wisdom that may help the education stick??

OK, so we have a Black Russian Terrier thread!! Now I just need some BRT owners to tell me all about their gorgeous breed! I am completely convinced this will be my next dog (well almost completely ). What can you tell me....the good, the bad and the ugly!

No probldem Pointee :D . Leos really are a wonderful breed, the only downfall I find is the grooming. I know you say that hair isn't an issue, I said that and I had a husky, but Mia (my leo) is like keeping 10 husky's groomed . But again, there are different coat types, so you may get one of the "wash and wear" Leo's that are apparently out there ;). Brush weekly and bath every 3-4 weeks, drip dry and bob's your uncle ;) . They do have a faultless temperament if raised well though. And they also have a fantastic sense of humour! Mim - on de-sexing - I have always thought de-sexing is a personal issue that depends on your beliefs/reasons for delaying. My girl was done at 18mths once she was titled. My sibe was done at 6mths, as he is a pet.

I was going to say hot spot too. Malaseb is exactly the right thing to put on it. My girl is currently recovering from a hot spot and the vet had us clip back all the hair around the spot to help stop the spread, bathe in malaseb (leave on for 5 mins before rinsing off) daily, but we also had to go to neocort , which you don't have. Hope he gets better soon, my Leo was miserable with hers .

[quote name='Pointees' date='29th Dec 2009 - 09:27 PM' post='422017 I like that question Mim. I know it all comes down to the individual dog, but how are these guys in a family home? Would you say they are better for a same, a single person or a couple? How do you think this breed would go with Pointers? In my house, its my mother, my younger brother, younger sister, myself, my uncle and my boyfriend (he's over every weekend), I am the main carer for the dogs - I walk them, feed them, play with them, bath them, etc, etc, etc, I do it all - would you say a Leonberger would find myself as the 'pack leader' or would it rather spend time with my boyfriend, or another family member as it may get attacted to them instead? Sorry if that question is all over the place. Oh Hi Leos are fabulous family dogs . My girl is about to turn six. I actually had her before my two children, who are now almost 4 and 1. She adapted beautifully to their arrival - woudl lie at my sons feet while he bounced all over her in his jolly jumper . So, she was great when it was just me, my hubby and my other dog, a Siberian Husky, but she is also brilliant now that we have kids. As a puppy she was full on, but has matured into a beautiful, calm, loyal and protective family dog. That said, they generally mature pretty slowly, so be prepared for a 40- 50kg puppy brain!! Leos do not do well with harsh forms of training, so lots of positive reinforcement is the way to go with these guys, but they are really smart and willing to please (in general). As far as "pack leader" goes, my girl is trained and responds to anyone giving the commands (as long as they are given as she understands them - same cue word and/or hand signal), including my children. She is my shadow however, and will likely be wherever I am in the house for the most part....unless there is a game going on somewhere that she wants to be part of! I have my own opinions on the "pack leader" theory, and basically think that if you are kind, consistent, control the majority of resources in the dogs life and keep your dog safe your dog will see you as a leader. On a whole, leos are generally good with other dogs, but they are big, and my girl does not appreciate over the top, rude dogs and will tell them so. Of course, lots of positive socialisation will help make your leo a well rounded dog. I take her to training with me (I teach obedience) and she is a brilliant demo and socialisation dog. She will stay in a drop stay while puppies leap all over her. She will also stay in a drop position to play with little dogs. She will send out all lthe right calming signals to uncertain /anxious dogs, and will follow my lead as to how to behave depending on the dog I am using her to socialise. But, when I go walking with my kids, she keeps a very close eye on other walkers and dogs and will go on "alert" if they get too close to us. Of course, she listens to me and will "on by" (walk past), but she will keep looking back to make sure they have kept on going, and if the dog is leaping around and or barking, she may give one warning bark back. Now here is the catch......how much do you like fur?? And I mean LIKE LIKE :D . I brush my leo daily (even though I was told weekly would be enough when I was researching the breed - it's not for my girl) and brush out 5-6 brushfuls of hair a day. I vacuum every 1-2 days, otherwise there would be tumbleweeds of fur all over my house. Every piece of clothing I own is covered in dog hair, as well as my car. These guys shed copiously! Of course, within the breed there are different coat types, my girl does have a long, heavy, stunning looking coat, and it takes a lot of work to keep it looking that way. If she isn't brushed regularly (or thoroughly) she matts, and she is prone to hot spots, so I keep her coat conditioned with an antibacterial product to keep them at bay. When she is bathed she needs to be blow dried to make sure her undercoat is not left damp (perfect for hotspots), and I send her to a groomer a few times a year to have her undercoat brushed out completely. I used to do this myself, but it is really time consuming, time I would rather spend playing with my dogs. Oh, the price tag, I waited 2 years for my girl (6 years ago) and she cost me $2500 then. You would need to contact a breeder to find out how much you might pay now. There are a lot more breeders around now than when I was looking, so you may have more choice. Wow, that was long.....but I could talk all day about my gorgeous breed :D .

I hadn't noticed that Mim, as I had just gone straight to the breeds I was interested in. It is very disappointing to see that DDs are included . For this reason I am going to remove the link to the site. The last thing mis-informed prospective puppy purchasers need is me providing them with a link to a site that promotes DDs, and therefore puppy mills and BYBs. I would hate myself if my actions in anyway encouraged someone to buy a DD.

I agree completely. There were a couple of things off across the 4 breeds I looked at too, as compared to other sources and breeders I have talked too. This site should most definately not be the only information source used to choose a dog breed!

Edited to remove link to site as it was brought to my attention that it promoted DDs, something I am very much against.

OK....so another question....Is there a difference between Shutzhund and IPO? :D

Thanks Kavik....will do

What about Black Russian Terriers? I plan for a BRT to be my next dog and am considering doing Shutzhund (among other things )......but still need to do a little more research on this sport.