Mrs Rusty Bucket

My dog has done this. It can be very annoying - she won't leave the hose alone, and loves chasing the water jet. I swear she'd drown herself biting the water jet given the opportunity. Maybe I should do some tests on video to see if she will deliberately arrange the hose to jet out of the clam shell or not. Ie if I put it back repeatedly. She's certainly done it more than once when I try to clean the clam shell. Ie I put hose in the bottom and start scrubbing and she picks it up and sprays everywhere... camera might have to be inside a water proof box...

where's the like button? I like Corvus's post. I have read one of Paul's books and I've been to a 2 day seminar and talked to him on the phone. I have to agree with Corvus - his main agenda is the welfare of animals. He's not a Peta - all animals should live free in the wild to kill or starve as best they can. But if he's going to say a practice is cruel or counter productive (eg you could train faster using a different method), he wants the science - well defined and executed studies with large sample sizes - to back it up. So I really don't understand Pavlova's reaction or why Sheridan thinks it's funny.

We have two agility champions at our club - both shelties. They give the BCs and Kelpies a run for their money. Here's a tibby. There's quite a few on youtube. Including what look like a few with their own ideas of where to go next.

"Steady" would be handy for the approaches to agility contact obstacles like dog walk, see saw, scramble - even the table (some are quite slippery). SG trained her dogs to run like hell when they hear it - just to mess with Derrett's head when he visits. But I notice she uses it in some training contexts too. A lot of these things - it depends where the dog hears it and how you say it. I'm fairly sure some words get double use too - like "out" for go to that jump away from me, and "out" for give me the toy (I use "give" or "thank you" for this one). I used to use "out" for leave the room or go outside, but have pretty much given up on that one. "mat" gets used more often, and going outside is always supervised anyway. "wait" while I open the door then "go" for you can quit waiting now and go outside.

This could be the theory you want to test with a scientific study. But first you would have to define what you meant by "benefit" I'm thinking stuff like predictable temperament - ie a particular ANKC recognised pedigree (with an ancesteral record etc) is supposed to behave in this measurable way - and measure that and compare it with dogs that are called that breed or look like it but don't have papers or an ancestry traceable back to an ANKC dog. predictable coat - shedding, non shedding, soft, scratchy, undercoat, (stripping coat - what is it border terriers have?) etc. And you'd have to define how you'd measure and compare these. predictable lifespan? predictable health costs? predictable trainability (how long does it take to learn particular tasks - though there are a lot of environmental factors in this). what else would you include as a "benefit", and how would you measure or test it to compare with non pedigree dogs? I'd be quite interested too. And also in the differences between ANKC dogs and working lines for some breeds. Some working lines have good records of their ancestries - and some don't. And some have good records of their performance and some don't. I would like to see some research on trainability - for things that you want a pet dog to be good at, and random trick training too. Ie any dog can be trained but some are easier than others (whether they're more of a people pleaser or just a bit spechul). for a bit of fun - which (pedigree breed) dogs are best at training their owners?

When you want to train a start line stay and reward staying with treats - treat-release is not so good. I know when I started - that's what my dog thought. Her fave release at start line is "go" ie run towards me flat out (and jump anything between). So I use "go" for release - which my dog is good with but I sometimes get confused on the agility comp start line when the judge says "you may go when you're ready" or worse "you may go"... not that my dog will go until I say but it messes with my head. Some people use Ok but find their dog will wander off from a stay position - when they're having a conversation with an instructor because it goes something like "try this" "ok" "where's the dog?". Susan Garrett likes "break" which I find hard to remember to use at the right time. I have lots of release words for different contexts tho. "go" - for "go do the most rewarding fun thing and here's hoping it's run around the agility course with me". "go play" for go play with the other dogs - there's no more rewards for you here - other than pats. "go sniff" "go say hello" - go greet your friends (dog or human). similar to "who dat dere?" or "where's Pele?" "on special" - permission to eat dinner (I use "go" for this one too and a wave at the dinner bowl hand signal). We didn't learn about the stay until released thingy without using "stay" until fairly late. I don't use "stay" much tho. I mostly use "wait". I probably need to add "stop" as well. "stop" would be really handy in herding - if she didn't get way too excited to obey (training challenge). So in the Derrett / Garrett agility handling system (you need a consistent system - doesn't matter which one, just use the same one) - a "control position" is a sit, drop, stand (and the end of certain agility obstacles) ie the dog is not moving/running. And the dog is supposed to stay in that position until you give a "release command" (word of your choice) that gives them permission to run / move off - ideally in the direction you indicate.

If you can't use a clicker - you can use the word "yes" instead. It's not quite as good for isolating specific behaviours but it works for most things. Watch for your dog to do something - anything, say "yes" and deliver a treat. Repeat. About five times for her to get the idea that "yes" = treat coming (I did something right). My dog finds this (treat or not) immensely reassuring. Keeps her going, otherwise she thinks she's done something wrong and starts with the frustration behaviours (barking, zooming, going sniffing etc). So for stand - the easiest thing for my dog - cos she knows "hand targetting" - is to say "stand" and put my hand where she has to stand up to nose it. To teach hand targetting - first I'd say "yes" and let my dog eat a treat from the hand I want her to target. I'd hold this hand steady against my knee in a fairly vertical position, and when she sniffs or touches it next I'd say "yes" and then put the hand horizontal and drop a treat in it and let her eat it. Repeat about five times. Sequencing is important. After five times - have a play (use a tug toy or run round the room or curl up in a ball and squeak aka hide and seek) then you can start to build to repeating nose touches... hold hand steady - first time round - one touch - yes - treat. second time round - wait a bit after she touches to see if she will touch twice... then yes treat. Mix up how many touches you ask for. Also try to build for firmer touches. All this helps when you want to train agility contacts later or dog dancing moves. Or a whole lot of stuff that involves targetting. http://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/clicker_training.html Note I can't stand the sound of a clicker myself - so I prefer to use a word like "yes", but if I ever find one of those nice music chime things (like the jewerly box music thingies - but I only need one note), I'd use that.

All research has an "agenda" ie you put up a theory, design a test, and then run the test. And at the end - the theory is supported - or not supported (which includes "inconclusive"). So without an agenda - the research would be aimless waffle. It does get a bit tricky if some dog food company funds research into "best diet" for dog - and the result is raw or barf and not their product. They may choose to sit on the results then and not publish. I thought the research on whipping horses was interesting - the conclusing was they alter their stride but run slower...

for the handling stuff (how to signal your dog where to go), I like Greg Derrett's system and dvd http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=824 or here (in Australia) http://www.agilityclick.com/prod185.htm Susan Garrett mostly uses the Greg Derrett system and modifies it for slow people. But she expects you to know his stuff.

My dog only looks ashamed when she wants her dinner. When she's being really naughty, she just looks a bit smug in a "what you looking at!" kind of way.

He'll soon be able to do this Wishing you both the best of healing vibes.

Ok Found your other thread - about the goals for 2012 in dog training. Almost all of those things are "titles" earned in various ANKC sanctioned dog competitions so what they all mean are listed in the competition rules there. Or you can cheat and some of them are listed here. http://www.sadogobedience.org.au/faq.php#faq_letters In agility, jumping and games: The qualifiers or grades are nothing - Novice (3 passes at the easiest level), X - excellent, O - Open, M - Masters A or AD - is for Agility and then various other letters indicate the grade of competition J - Jumping - like agility without the dog walk and scramble and see saw. SP - Strategic Pairs - two dogs and two handlers compete on the same course which is usually divided up so it works better if two dogs do it. G - Gamblers S - Snooker There's also Herding Tracking Flyball Earth Dog Endurance Sledding or Scooter pulling (what Huskies do when there is no snow). Retrieving Dances With Dogs and others. And some dogs can go in conformation shows and win more titles that way. I'm not so familiar with those because I have a bitsa that is inelligible. http://ankc.org.au/Rules.aspx

Newfsie (where are you) Has a VW Caddie rigged up for dog training. She can get several Newfoundlands into it. And it's bright red so everyone would notice it.

I learned a new one - not from here but it's dog training related... PNU - pool noodle upright, ie you train your dog to run around it and back to you (or where ever else you send it). BC - border collie GSD - german shepherd dog JD - jumping dog SPDX - strategic pairs excellent O.CH - Obedience Champion (has done very well in competition many times). SWF - Small White Fluffy DA - Dog Aggressive (these two often go together) OH - Other Half (spouse) sometimes written DH - for Dear Hubby but I could be wrong MIL - Mother in Law LOL - Laugh out Loud (not Lots of Love). There are some threads on this around the place. There's some listed on my dog club website for Tiitles eg RN - Rally Novice or Registered Nurse sometimes also written RD (Rally Dog?). ANKC isn't very consistent. ANKC - Australian National Kennel Club. BYB - Back yard breeder - most often applied to people who have deliberate or accidental litters of dogs without doing responsible health and temperamnent tests first. Ie "bad people". But it could be argued that a lot of small scale ANKC registered breeders - are breeding their dogs in their back yards - but they do it according to the ANKC code of ethics - we hope. LBB - little brown bird - frequently spotted on 4WD trips by the lead vehicle and nobody else. You're just going to have to collect a list and post them in here for us to interpret.

My dog and I share germs. I think it helps for a stronger immune system. Not that there are many dog germs that can infect humans and vice versa. Same applies to their poo. Not that I'd want to eat it on purpose. So I don't let her "kiss me". But we do share toast and she does sometimes pre-rinse some of the plates - that then get washed in near-boiling water (direct from kettle) and air dried.

I've heard quite a few good things about Mark Singer. I thought he designed the program but didn't actually run it so I would be interested to hear how it goes and whether he's actually there. You can search dolforums for more about Mark - theres a few threads about him here.

If OCD wasn't a consideration - and I think that OCD might be a major problem... For which you need professional help and anti anxiety meds (or whatever the prof help recommends). I would put aloe vera directly from cactus leaf onto the tail - because it's great for healing and it tastes horrible - even to a dog. But if the dog is so bad you start running out of cactus - too much aloe vera is toxic. Ie once a day on a small wound is ok but five times a day on a giant wound - maybe not. Or if the dog eats the cactus - bad (but unlikely). And - this is going to seem bizare - I would teach the dog to spin on command. Once learned I would only reward when the spin is cue'ed. Teach both directions. I use "Left" for counter clockwise and "right" for clockwise. DWD people use "twirl" and "spin". For some dogs (and I use this for both spinning and barking) if it's on cue and earns a reward when cue'd, they're less likely to give it away for free. But my dog is not completely obsessive about it. And if you're trying to get rid of one obsessive self comforting habit - it may pay to substitute a more acceptable self comforting habit ie sucking thumb might be preferable to biting nails. So think about what you want the dog to do instead. Eg licking a toy might be good. And this isn't going to help if it's happening when you're out. If it is anxiety related a thunder shirt might help.

I tried google - found his web page and a (marketing) review in the newspaper. Hardly independent info. Doesn't mean anything one way or the other. What kind of problems is the friend having? - if it's serious agression problems I'd be looking for someone (there's several members here) who can help with that. If it's for someone with no clue on the basics of dog care and training, the testimonials on his web page suggest he's the go to guy.

i think some people (and dogs) are "naturally anxious" so would always have a higher level than "normal". What I'd be interested is what things/activities change the level. Eg does putting on a slip chain - up the dog's stress hormone (or blood pressure) compared to when it's relaxing. Of course blood pressure alone would not be a good measure either because it goes up for lots of reasons other than just stress or pain. How you'd measure that reliably, I can't imagine right now. I do know for myself - having visited three doctors inside a short period of time - that one of them reliably made my blood pressure about 20 points higher than my measure with any of the other doctors (one of whom is a family friend). The bad blood pressure doctor was the one that frequently told me off for doing unhealthy things (eating bad food?). So measring the stress/pain indicator - would have to be something that you could do that didn't alter the stress/pain. ie training the dog to be cool about having blood taken might negate the level of stress hormone in the blood.

I think a blood test for cortisol (hormone) gives an idea. You'd have to train the dog to be cool about having it's blood taken first. or some way of measuring what's in the blood while doing the "experiment". Or you might be able to do a mass testing of dogs at dog club - and then compare steroid levels with collar types. But it would be hard to attribute cause from that. I was thinking it could be fairly straight forward for vets to report to an online database - patients that come in with neck injuries or trachea problems and what kind of collar they came in with and what their owner says they usually wear. With humans you can see some nice bruising and swelling - it's a bit harder to see that in dogs.

We used to live in a house with a one legged sock thief... I now live in a house with a fourlegged sock thief. My mum wears one white sock and one blue sock to golf - cos Evil Hound ate one of each. My mum has learned not to leave her (slightly unwashed) golf socks in the shoes by the back door. Our last family dog - destroyed a door stop that looked like a mouse in a bonnet (similar to beatrix potter character). Because my dad made the mistake of frightening her with it. So she snuck upstairs when nobody was around and killed it completely. Dad did not try that trick with the rat-brick door-stop so it lived considerably longer. I keep my grandmother's teddy bear where my dog cannot reach it.

dog training aid and restraints - slip collars, halties, front attach harnesss, sporns (armpit harness), rear attach - sled dog harnesss... I think we'd need to compare - "correct use" with "normal use" or what the pet dog owner does with these and the effects of that. I have seen a lot of head halters fitted and used incorrectly but one of my fav trainers loves it (with some modifications for comfort) for teaching her puppies not to sniff without permission - because it gives her control over the dog's head in a way that nothing else does. When I used it briefly with my dog - I had a flat collar (or front attach harness) and the halti on at the same time and the stop dog was the harness and horse lead rope, the halti had the lightest skinniest lead I could find attached - so I could control her head without "leaning" on it and release fully. I'd start with the slip collars vs limited slip (martingale) vs flat collars tho.

Captions for my dog... She's so well trained... my favourite game is "chase me" (can't catch me) - especially when it's time to put the lead on to go for a walk. I found some roast chicken bones and when Mum asked me to give - I ate them faster. I like counter surfing. I eat pegs. Ugg boots are for ripping to pieces. So is the nice new wooly rug mum got me. I like to do most of my crap in one pile but deposit a separate secret fartleberry where mum walks. I like to chase the ball, but I don't like to fetch it. I talk other dogs into giving me their ball and then I bust it into tiny pieces. Sometimes I eat the pieces too. If I eat a bone, I will need to vomit some of it later. Usually - 3am. When mum goes in the shower, I bark as if someone rang the door bell. I will let approximately 99 joggers pass without trouble. The next one cops special scary barking dog. I like to schmooze competition judges - in the agility ring. I pick pockets. I will dob in anyone with treats - and I like to goose my human friends. I ate a hole in mum's 21st present travel blankie. I was old enough to know better. Mum got me a doona and I made it into confetti. The ball I can't destroy does not exist. I like to make a lot of noise when mum is on the phone.

shadow handling and circle work... imagine the dog is your shadow. Can you run and have the dog stay next to you, if you change direction - or does the dog cut in front of you (trip you up) or cross behind you (blind cross), or run anywhere but with you? What you want is a dog that will run next to you - either on the left or the right but not both unless you signal a change of side... ie the dog needs to work both sides, but not sneak behind you or trip you up in front. Start line stays are another great fun game to do without equipment. Ie can your dog stay until you release. Even if you run by? When you release - will the dog run towards you flat out - or do they go sniff? Does it matter if you run at the same time or stand still?

1. Better marketing of results - especially where results confict with previously known scientific or bogus scientific results. And basic explaining of how scientific tests work - double blind tests, controls and placebos. 2. A study that shows the health effects - mental and physical from using slip chains (aka choke collars). I'm reasonably sure there is damage to some dogs' necks and tracheas with long term use - especially by people who never release the collar and allow their dog to pull in front of them wearing it (most people I see using them do this). There's also mental damage to some dogs who don't take adversives well - ie it puts them off going a walk or dog club training. Had a discussion with Paul McG about this and I can't quite afford it unless I'm the researcher. Still working on friends with money tho. 3. Some better research on dog bites - and media reporting - ie something we can point to and say the media is all hype - here are the facts (eg most dogs that bite - are in the home - not wandering the streets, and if it's not a big scary dog - no reporter wants to know). 4. Some studies that compare reward based training (eg treat training) vs yank and crank - with dog club training methods and pet dogs in mind. 5. some more stuff on the benefits of owning a dog and how to deal with dog phobic people. And maybe some stuff about dogs and health - ie the number of places that say you can't bring a dog here, because it's "unhealthy" when you're way more likely to get something nasty from another human - but they're not banned, even if they've clearly got the flu.