Mrs Rusty Bucket

180 cue (digga digga) AND a tight 360 turn cue (check check) Erm just a maths / geometry query on this one... for me I send dog to jump with check check and she comes straight back to me ie 180 degrees turn ie from running north, she jumps running north and comes back around the wing/post now running south after a 180 turn in the opposite direction... A 360 turn for me would be like a nana - running north, go round the jump wing, turn south and take the back of the jump wrap all the way round the jump wing/post and turn to continue running north Diga diga - is the old swing - turn (away from me?) usually 45' (angle turn) to 90' (square turn) really handy out of tunnels and onto dog walks - tho that can be a 180 turn too. Or off dog walks and into tunnels.

Dog is not supposed to come away from a shaggy sheep with a mouth full of wool... which is why we used shaggy sheep for training - ie much less likely to connect with the actual fleshy bits. Tho there are other ways to break a sheep - like running them into a concrete trough. (not my team luckily but could happen to anyone if their dog doesn't stop when asked). My dog - when she's a bit excited or it's getting dusk - will frequently miss the target (tug toy or whatever) and get me instead. Derrett said - you're not doing it right if you're not bleeding but I don't like that method. Too much punishment for handler.

I have a soft sided crate that lives in my car. I've needed to use it a few times other than dog club - and glad I had it so I didn't have to leave her locked in the car. If I do leave her in the car, I leave the doors unlocked so people don't have to smash the window. I have called the police to discuss whether or not to break a window on other people's cars when there's an unhappy looking dog inside. I have a tool that will do the job that lives in my car as a safety device for any children dumb enough to get locked in the back behind the cargo barrier. Tho you can open the door from the inside. I think. I wouldn't smash the window unless the police person on the other end told me to... Most of the time - we're having the discussion and the owner shows up and is very angry (shamed). I figure the more embarrassed they are about all the concerned people standing around watching their dog - the better. People do get very confused about how long they've been away tho. One lady said she'd only been a couple of minutes but it was more like 20 minutes cos she stopped to chat with friends. PS at my ex dog club - they always had people who would hold your dog for you while you sorted your membership out.

That's what I didn't like about the way he handled it. He denied it to start with - for at least a week - until the autopsy came back. The right thing to do - in my opinion - would be admit there was a stuff up, investigate, pay for the autopsy and change the set up so big dogs are separated from little dogs and there would be more supervision, and less dogs out together at the same time. And I'd definitely want to see a better dog pen system than plastic crates stacked on top of each other out in the open.

Do you mean you've modified it? For SG it still means, don't take the obvious side of the jump/tunnel entry, come to me and then flick away to take the obstacle. That might mean going around the back if you are out of position, but typically it means come off the face or away from the obvious tunnel entry and take the other side. As opposed to go around the back. No I didn't modify it. Recent coaching call (H360 I think) - she used it on a course that wasn't at all like a threadle. Well it sort of was a threadle if you made a straight line (so all the bars were in the same line) of the obstacles but they weren't in a straight line. More like off set steps or something. I'm definitely going to have to go back and watch that call again. But it wasn't as simple as dog goes around the back of the jump (dark side) and jumps back towards the handler. I don't want to use/think "back side" of jump - because "back" is a command I use to get my dog to back up... If I think "back side" - that's what will come out of my mouth.

FF - focus forward? I make evil hound focus on her dinner before I release her but she will only look at me on the start line. she might look at a lump of roast chicken if I put that after the jump but she won't look at the jump until I release (say "go"). At least she looks at it when we're lining up. so you mean that if there is nothing else available the default option for the dog is to come to the RZ position? I think that would be ok unless I've got other things available - like a jump... but that has its own cue, tho we're still working on take all the obstacles in front of you until I cue a turn. And we're a bit fuzzy on what the turn cues are - I'd rather not have them on my body/shoulder movement and only on arm (pointing)/verbal. As for the stays - I cue those "wait" cos we started old school obedience training and I've never gotten her to have the idea that you stay in the "control position" (sit, stand, drop) until I say you can move ("go") - without the "wait" command. So she will happily do heel work until I tell her "wait" I don't think about front crosses or rear crosses or blind crosses any more - I think about turns and arm changes. I can't do the Derrett style spinny front cross because one of my knees doesn't work properly and I don't want to bust it again... Blind crosses are much easier for us than some front crosses. And come more naturally to a cattle dog that likes to drive (and nip) from behind. And I'm getting better with her completeing jumps when I have a cue for jump and go straight (jump) and jump and turn tight (check check), she's reasonably good at left and right - but I keep saying the wrong one so it sometimes comes out left - other left... but she knows "finish" and other (side)... Another one that will be useful if I ever train it is "wit wit" or "with me" ie come to RZ without taking any more obstacles... And I still need to train "take the dark side" or the back side of the jump not the front. SG has "c'arn" (come) and lala and nana for that. I think. c'arn used to mean "come between the jumps and flick" but it's modified now to take the dark side...

Made sense to me Kavik... Tho I think with RZ - isn't that supposed to be the default on release sort of. Ok - now I'm confused, cos I know Susan Garrett cues it sometimes and other times - she just uses her release word. And then it's context and value for what the dog sees as to what the dog does on release. RZ - reinforcement zone...

what kavik said. Cattle dogs - are reputed to have some instinct to nip on the ankle (or the nose) of a difficult beast, and then duck so they don't get kicked in the head. But any herding dog that bites when it isn't necessary or causes harm, is not worth keeping. All dogs need to have "bite inhibition", and that does come with training. There is something called "instinct drift" (I think) where you're training against instinct - ie why recall (or herding) is harder to train with a sight hound than a herding dog. If you have a dog that has the instinct to catch their handler/owner and tear her to pieces - you might not want to be keeping that dog. Or training it to chase you (part of agility). All dogs are supposed to know the difference between their owner (teeth off) and prey or even other dogs (ok to play bitey face). And if you can't get that with training - not a good dog to have. Ie a herding dog is useless if you can't call it off the sheep. So a herding dog in the city that chases bicycles and won't come when it's called is not better off on a farm chasing sheep. It's going to have a very short life if you give a dog like that to a farmer. But - you can train it. You must train it. Like Pavlov's dogs start slobbering when they hear the door of the lab opening (with their dinner).

Dogs are really good at "context". Susan Garrett does this kind of thing to her dogs all the time... she's got three or so parked behind her during a coaching call and she's telling all us web customers how to train - using all her cue words... and her dogs, ok maybe not the puppy, know she's not talking to them. They also know about dog name + "break" - means only one of them gets to move.

You can play its yer choice with behaviours too... so something I will be trying with my dog is IYC in a head halter - from SG recallers... Because a collar grab when she's barking and lunging at a dog that she's frustrated about (can't always tell if she's excited-friendly or excited-fierce) will engage something called "the opposition reflex" and actually make her more excited about the whole thing instead of calming her down. So the IYC and head halter involves getting control of her head and turning it away from the exciting thing as you both get further away from it. So the IYC and barking/biting... you move - what's your dog's choice? you set up a trigger - what's your dog's choice (of behaviour) and what is your response? And start lines stays - the reset involves calm collar grab and moving the dog back to where you put them for the start. So you line them up for a start - I practice this on the beach or open park - no equipment - and you "lead out", sometimes you look back and sometimes you don't and sometimes you look back some of the time... you have to watch where you're going... if the dog moves - you calmly walk back and reposition them. I usually laugh at my dog and say "oops" at her tho I use "oops" when I stuff up too so it doesn't carry a lot of meaning apart from - we're starting over. When my dog is good at staying put with a nice long leadout, I start adding distraction, from a closer distance and trying to fake her out. For her this is really really exciting. The reward is the release and chase (for a toy or my hat). She has a very good understanding of the criteria, ie to keep all four paws planted until I say "go" (thinking "now" would be a good release word as in not yet, not yet - now!). paws still, butt parked (if she's not in a stand)... And I jump around and run past her and run back to her and wave my arms around and say "turkey".... all to try to fake her out... and if she holds position, I say "go"... and I may or may not run... and she gets my hat. Running is better, she likes that more and I could use the exercise. The hat or toy gives her something to grab instead of me tho I do have to be careful to keep my fingers out the way cos she launches at it.

I think there is a lovely blurry line between reward and aversive, between "do something" and "stopping the self reinforcement" (don't do something).... I think it's mostly about intention - are you trying to teach your dog to do something "do let go" or don't do something - don't bite. It's a lot harder for dog to figure out "don't" and there is a small risk that you will cause problems when you want to put your finger down your dog's throat and he won't let you because that's what you trained. I do gently push my hand towards the back of my dog's mouth if she grabs a bit hard and doesn't instantly spit me out when I stop moving. Don't have to do that very often. Usually a freeze (of the grabbed bit) and a look is enough. But if I want to open her mouth and look around and poke my fingers in there - I can. Sometimes the dog doesn't make the right connection when you use an aversive. Ie how much trouble do they have with "no treat for that" when they're used to being rewarded?

I knew there was a reason I like to keep my dog on the outside of my elbows... tho she usually gets me on the waist or ribs... if she was a little bit taller...

Sheena My dog does some of the same things. I used to get bitten / nipped if I got lost on course and stopped without giving her anything to do (a drop down command would keep her happy - tho some agility people use this for punishment). She is a lot happier - less barking if I keep the cues up to her so she knows where she's going next. Ie if there is a jump and a sharp turn if I have one cue that means all that, like check check check... she's happy. If I talk to her in the tunnel so she knows where she's going after that helps... and if I keep talking, even if it's only to say "yes" when she gets stuff right - she keeps her big trap shut so she can hear. She gets really upset if I don't say anything like on the weaves (yes for every pole...) because she thinks she's got something wrong if I don't. Video will really show up when your signals are not clear and your cues are late or non existent and the places/reasons where he gets frustrated and loses it. And you're a new pairing so be patient, work on some of the foundation. Try to set up some frustration eg - try shaping an ear flick in front of his dinner... and then not-reward the barking... (put his dinner back in the fridge then try again later). experienced agility person recommending a clout - I think that's against the rules. I'd be offering one right back eg how would you like a good clout for really bad advice? Or dog training method - ignore like you never heard but avoid that person in future.

I don't know your dog but if I tried that with my dog - she'd blame the pets and attack them. And ignore the shock collar or attack harder, the same as she'd ignore the bites of a dog that was attacking her.

That's a good video Thistledog... I have found putting a hand up like a stop sign and saying "Bad Idea" stops people too. All the other stuff like "keep away", "call your dog" etc doesn't work... And people do want to argue with you... but they don't argue with "bad idea"...

Here is the other thread. Seems like a few of us make the same suggestions last time. Good on Phantom Reptiles for getting a trainer but it may require followup. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/264449-reactive-dog/page__p__6748007#entry6748007

When my dog goes "TAR" too aroused to respond - reacting to another dog that got too close that I couldn't avoid... I grab her flat collar and lift her by the collar until front feet off the ground - gently... and then she can't get launch power to do anything about it. If she calms down at all or stops looking at the trigger (dog), I put her feet back on the ground... We do a lot of "sit pretty", "stand tall" training so she's got the strength to hold herself standing on her back legs but she can't get a directed launch. And that controls the situation until the other dog is far enough away for her to get her self control back. What I really can't understand is why off lead or even on lead dogs want to greet a dog who is giving really clear "hate you" signals. Using a collar that actually causes pain in the face of a trigger - can only make things worse. Eg she sees trigger dog and the collar bites her - she's going to blame the trigger... If the dog is ignoring the prong collar and being injured by it - I would argue it's not being used appropriately. You can get leverage (power and strength over the dog) with a front attach harness and/or a head halter - both have to be correctly fitted. I have used both in conjunction with a flat collar - ie two leads or a double ended lead... It's possible for a dog that is really excited - enough to ignore the prong collar (or blame the other dog for it), to bust out of a head halter and that gets really scary. So it helps to have a second attach point. But your best way to deal with this is to remain calm and stay as far away from trigger dogs as possible.

I guess this is not the same, but my dog gets extremely excited when I get the fly swat out to go fly hunting. She loves to help. I can swat near her and she never thinks I mean she's done something wrong. I think if I let her have the fly swat she'd kill it tho. Sometimes she finishes off the flies I bring down. Yuck. I think if I'd done this - my dog would blame the doves and try to herd them out the tree. She certainly feels that way about felines in the yard (and I have encouraged that). I think if evil hound was overly scared of something that was predictable - I'd get maybe a frozen kong of food or a bit of roo jerky or bob a lot, and get her working on that while the scary thing was going on. When there's fireworks - I tend to act nonchalant and just pat her but she's not a quivering mess. I do know if she is really stressed - she won't eat anything and then I've got some work to do. But if she's taking food and I can get her to work for it, she's not thinking about the lawnmower man or the cat fight or the freight train or the garbage truck or postie or kids going to school... I'd be hosing the tree but I might shut the dog inside while I do it so she doesn't get excited or upset by the hose. Good luck with the dove relocation project. If you find the three sticks they make their nest out of and dislocate the nest they will probably pick a different tree to nest in. Best to get it before eggs.

This would be great. I sometimes want to leave my dog in a crate in the shade near shops so I don't have to leave her in the car but scared someone will let her out or someone with another dog will let their dog pee on my crate (has happened before). And I'm pretty sure some parents would love to leave their kids in a play safe zone while they shop too. Personally I avoid Bunnings, have nightmares about the place - not being able to find a way out (tho that's what happens in IKEA). And occasionally when I do go there for something specific - they don't have it, or not of adequate quality. If I took my dog there I think she'd eat the blood and bone... urk.

I think the European attitude where dogs are allowed most places, shops, restaurants, apartments, public transport - mean it's more likely that dogs and children have plenty of experience with each other, the dog would be more accustomed to the behaviour of five year olds and the child more used to how dogs are. The shop staff would also be more familiar with dog comfortable vs stressed dog body language. I never saw any children trying to persecute or pat a dog in Europe. I did see some children running amok in one of the palace grounds but they were not chasing the dogs that were also there. All the dogs stayed close to their owners (within 10m), it was always clear who owned the dog. Not always clear who was the parent of the naughty children. I had a scary experience of my own recently - fortunately my dog coped without chomping on anyone but five yo girl decided my dog needed a hug. My dog did not like it and both myself and the parent said don't do that but me short of manhandling the child - couldn't do much. My dog was on a chair outside the vet next to a busy road and we were effectively cornered by this family. I'm pretty sure if the parent had pulled the child off my dog - there would have been a temper tantrum. And that would have been even less fun for my dog and everyone. So now do I block all children from going near my dog because one would not do what it was told by either myself or her parent? Probably not. But I might test child's ability to do what they're told before they get near my dog. Eg wait a second... I think it's sad that all dogs are banned from so many places because some are badly behaved or badly supervised. On that basis - we might ban all cars from the road because some cars run people over and all men from everywhere because some hit women. So many rules we have - punish the majority for the bad behaviour of a few. And blanket bans happen even when there are rules that cover the misbehaviour of a few. Eg in most cases (bunnings) - it's not legal for dogs to bite people.

From the pet plan page. I've had problems with the A .-. z insurance company not paying out what my (car) insurance premium covered. So I don't do business with them now. I've read a few people have the same kind of problem with pet insurance with them so it's good to see that that's not true for everyone. I'd rather pay a higher excess or co-payment and get a cheaper premium. I figure people going to insurance companies for things I think ought to be self covered or not covered (no possible improvement in quality of life), just makes it expensive for all the rest of us.

I hate it when people scold you when they're wrong and you're in the right. If I'm riding bike - I give warning ding. I find it best if pedestrians move left - and sometimes I yell that at them too if they seem to be struggling with the concept. One pair of girls were walking on either side of the bike track leaving no room for anyone to get past, and when I dinged the bell - they obligingly swapped sides. So that might be why some cyclists opt for no warning. However - I was walking on the street with my dog and heard a motorbike coming so promptly moved us onto the footpath - into the path of an oncoming mailman - oops. Did get out of the way without an accident but unfortunately dog had a go which might not have happened if I stayed where I was (better distance). The other thing I see a lot as a cyclist is a parent or dog owner feebly calling their charge to come to them, when it would be much quicker and easier all round if they just move to the same side of the bike track as their charge. I've scared the crap out of quite a few people who made that fail. Not on purpose but I thought that I could get round and suddenly I couldn't. Didn't actually prang tho. When it's a shared path - you have to expect the unexpected - including people who have no brains.

I'm with Pet Insurance Australia... $200 per condition excess and they only pay 80% - max limit on illness is $15,000, on accident is $8,000 and only $2600 on Cruciate... Usually when I ring up for quotes elsewhere eg Medibank - they quote higher even with a 25% discount. Presumably I get some credit for having insured from puppy (dog is 7 yo now) with PIA that I don't get with the others. It's not like car or people insurance where they offer no claim discounts and life time premium somethings (tho my health insurance goes up a lot each year too). And it's not at all like house insurance, ie the multiplier between premium and max payout is much much better. I think I've claimed once on that. And the health insurance has been totally worth it after two knee ops.

Yeah I think part of my problem is the older the dog gets - the higher the premium as if I'm paying vet expenses when nothing is wrong. I have gotten dog physio for her from a vet-physio but I paid for that. If the cost was up over $4000 with no guarantee of improved quality of life - I don't think I'd be happy to spend that, insurance or not but I guess other people do - spend to the limit of their cover if they've got it - regardless of potential quality of life and that puts the cost up for all of the rest of us. I think I will send the vet an email about range of expenses with a good quality of life outcome still expected. And I noticed with my insurance - they have about four different names for the same breed eg they have Australian Cattle dog listed as different to Blue Heeler, different to Queensland Cattle dog and crosses of all those... and different prices for all of those. And a different price again for crossbreed. I think blue heeler was cheapest... and I didn't pick that.

Hi all Just got my new premium renewal for accident and illness and I'm not sure it's worth it any more given it's cracked $500 pa, up 14% approx from last year which was a massive hike from the previous year also. I've never made a claim. My car insurance does not go up like this. And the benefits they're offering - consistently go down. They've put a limit on Cruicate surgery of $2600 - which I could afford to pay out of savings and if the op cost that I'd only get 80% back anyway. And if she did both cruiciates in the same year, the limit for both would be $2600. Doesn't seem worth it. Or maybe I could cut back on the illness - since the risk of that would be going up with age. And just pay for that as I need it. I could afford quite a bit out of savings and I figure if I keep the $500 + 15% pa increases, that would cover more than their limits anyway. Eg 500pa for another 7 years is $3,500 which is more than the cruicaite costs... not sure about hip operations. I think our most likely problem is she eats something she shouldn't and needs surgery. I guess that would be around $3K ish these days and then after that the policy excludes the same thing again - so that would mean the cover would be worth less but I bet I don't get a discount. Anyone else got any thoughts about the value of dog health insurance? Ie if the max benefit is around $15,000 and I just set that aside just in case... I reckon that would be much better risk than just forking out half a grand or more a year and then being knocked back on a claim anyway.