Mrs Rusty Bucket

I would. But I would train collar grab as a game first. I would also stop both dogs being out there doing this together - ie one dog at a time. And I might get some welding gloves for the first time. Or they might be spending a lot of time practicing being calm along the fence - on lead.

For my dog - when she's being fear? aggressive or territorial - best not to use any food reward. The reward is the release to make choice and praise when get choice right, and get to stay free. If I use food for rewarding in this kind of scenario - she acts bad and scary then calm and sweet - to get the treat. She performs bad and scary... even when there's nothing to be bad and scary about. Because she wants the treat and I made the mistake of giving it to her. That's called back chaining. How does the dog figure out how to do it on their own... I'm not entirely sure. But preventing the bad behaviour when you're not home and being really "swift and deliberate" if there is any (when you are home). My dog stays locked inside when I'm out and she's staying home, so she has less opportunity to be fence running without me. But she still gets to do it when I'm home. And I have to deal with that. Mostly it's only when something new happens. Like this morning - they were demolishing the shed over the back lane - so dog got very excited. I took her back inside (she won the prize), and then I actually took her out on lead so she could not fence run at them. And praised her for being calm about them being there. And I was calm about them being out there. So when I let her go (to make her choice) she didn't go back to the fence running. I wasn't overly bothered about her being loud about a ute being parked in the lane - I do want to know about that but once I've said "enough", then she needs to stop. We also have to play the choice game from time to time at the front door. The rules are - sit while I open the door and don't move until I say "go". I had been letting her blast out because it "didn't matter" but she would get over the top excited if the neighbours kids were playing out the front and she'd do full on scary. Not ok... So now if her butt lifts off before I get the door fully open - I shut it before she can get out (she's on lead so I have control). Also if she's noisy I don't open the door until she's quiet and if she starts up again between the door and the gate... we go back in the house or round the back via the side gate. Her choice... she's noisy, she goes back home... if she's calm and quiet she gets to say hello to everyone, get pats and go for walk. So she's very good as long as I'm consistent. Need to get it right at least 4 out of 5 times for the dog to learn. So you don't have to be perfect but you do have to try. I think a lot of it is about building your dog's self control in the face of exciting "distractions".

Collar grab - and dog's choice. If you're preventing the dog making a choice after the collar grab and some calm behaviour - it won't stop the fence running, but when the dog calms down - you release the dog and allow it to make a choice. You might limit the choices and increase your control by having a lead on when you let go the collar, but you let the dog make a choice. You reward the good choices. So the dog is making a choice without you telling it what to do - so eventually (or two grabs in the case of my dog)... dog chooses to behave how you want, you reward that, dog will learn to make that choice when you're not there. Hence I can leave a bowl of porridge on the coffee table until it goes cold... and she will leave it alone until I get back in the room and then she will ask me if she can have it. I've come back into the kitchen to see her drooling next to her bucket of kibble with the lid off cos I forgot. But she doesn't eat it. Collar grab + Its yer choice. (lots of youtube about these games).

I would first teach both dogs "collar grab" game eg pair grabbing their collar with a treat they like - repeat about five times. Try to get one session a day. Then if my dog barks inappropriately or charges the fence (I think this is prey drive but I really don't care), I collar grab, hold, wait for dog to notice that the behaviour has been interrupted.. I don't say anything. I don't yell or join in with the barking. When the dog stops thinking about the fence and pays attention to me - I wait for another second or two of calm attention on me and then I release to see what the dog chooses to do next (a version of "It's yer choice" game). If the dog chooses to repeat the behaviour I don't like - I repeat the collar grab, wait, choice? If the dog makes a bad choice after the second collar grab - they win the prize of go inside or have some crate time or go on lead - so the behaviour cannot be repeated. I don't think removing to behind the second fence is going to be enough in this case. And you will probably need to re-train each dog separately - as they will train each other to do the fence running thing. Unless there are two of you and you both run the collar grab - choice routine. Do not release the dogs together - one should figure it out faster than the other...

I think some of it may have to do with vets trying to make money. According to one friend who is a vet - there is less pet ownership and less vet visits than there was 15 years ago. Certainly our council is making it harder and harder to own and exercise a dog. And homes are getting closer together with less yard also making it harder to own a dog. And we have higher standards about their care. Mostly. The completely feral people who are happy to own three dogs in a suburban yard and leave them to their own devices probably don't vaccinate either.

I don't talk about drive. I get confused. I talk about enthusiasm for the task at hand. Either the dog is keen to work with you or they'd rather be doing something else (eg go sniffing is something my dog likes). If they have no enthusiasm for the task, you've got a bunch of choices... 1. quit trying to get them to do the task 2. pair the task with something they love and use a bit of PREMACK - you get what you want when I get what I want. 3. remove the distraction or thing that they are enthusiastic about. And it's important to remember - if you're training to break the task down to baby steps and train with few or no distractions before trying to get it all going together in a place of many distractions (eg your average footpath). How much does your dog like walking next to or near you? How much fun have you made that for your dog? How can you pair that with something your dog loves? (treats are easy but not the only option). Have you practiced in lots of different places with varying competing distractions? No need to mention drive, or operant conditioning quadrants or maths (positive/negative). Keep it fast, fun and short and simple. If the dog is not enthusiastic about working - change that first. Don't try to drag an unwilling dog into training. It's going to start avoiding you.

So glad I'm not alone.

Michael D'Abruzzo wrote I agree with this part of his article. But then he gives no evidence of what he's talking about. Where is his record keeping of rewards vs aversives. Mostly what "positive" trainers (and I think that term is incorrect way to describe what they're doing) are about is avoiding aversives like slip chain collars, prong collars, loud or severe reprimands, things old school dog trainer call "corrections"... It's not that they never use +p. +p - applying something that the dog doesn't like to reduce an undesirable behaviour - that may be as simple as covering up the cup of food with your hand to stop the dog from stealing it. The dog doesn't like that - so hopefully (in combination with well timed rewards) it learns to leave the food alone unless it has permission to eat it. But that's different from smacking the dog over the head with a newspaper for sniffing (thinking about stealing) the food. Or yanking it by the neck and firmly saying "leave it". It doesn't help that the reward based trainers - (get reward/don't get reward) use the word "positive" when in the science jargon that can also be paired with punishment or aversives designed to discourage a behaviour. What Michael doesn't seem to acknowledge is the increasing pile of scientific evidence that shows that using aversives in training is counter productive. It sets the training back. More so than just withholding a reward does. Tho you should see the way my dog carries on when she fails to earn the treat. But she does work harder next time and has way more joy when she gets it right than when I pay her for "participation". PS I think he may well get into trouble for pairing a picture of Victoria Stilwell and a bunch of what look like police dog trainers - with the words "criminal acts". As for verbal reprimands - what is the difference between telling your dog "no treat for that" and saying "ah ah". Tho personally - I don't like "ah ah" - I have been known to say "don't even think about it" and "OI" if she starts rolling in something stinky. Mostly she gets "ah hmm" if she's doing something I don't want her to be doing. Or I just give her something else to do (like drop or get the hat).

Kath: What's your dog's name? Kim: Shh, it's Secret. Kath: No? But you can tell me the secret name..... (I know someone who named their dog "Guess" - you will never guess what happened...)

Poison is possible. I caught a rat in my yard once that was like a very drunk rat. It was too unco-ordinated to run away from me... I dispatched it and put it in the bin. I pretty much assume any rodent in my yard has been exposed to rat poison and hope it's not the really bad (fast acting super poisonous stuff). Tho they seem very healthy and energetic compared to the one I caught. Fortunately for me, while evil hound loves hunting them, she won't eat them (or dispatch them).

My dog answers to a lot of bizarre names. I suspect it's mostly the tone she's paying attention to. She will also answer any recall on the park if she thinks there's a treat in it. I will see her lined up at someone else's feet for a treat while their dog is completely ignoring them, and my evil hound does the same to me... I call her - get someone else's dog and she's "up yours".

Indian ink - is that really dark stuff... But I look at the picture and I get "Indigo" or "Indy" and "Diggo" Or we could think of some really dark Indians Ghandi? Joeline (after Joel Garner - West Indian cricketer)

How tall is he now and how much does he weigh? Might be helpful info. Petrescue has a helpful rehome your dog advice in their library... You've already been through the "do we have to" and the desex (scheduled) But there's also some ideas on where to advertise, how to prepare an ad, and how to select a good home. And what to do when you hand over (reminder to update details and transfer microchip details) I always think it would be a good idea to ask if the local vet will let you put up an ad there. https://www.petrescue.com.au/library/articles/help-i-need-to-rehome-my-pet

Isn't that how the puppy farm in NSW got exposed for flogging puppies in WA... some of them were sick?

Don't blame David for that stuff. He knows it's wrong http://www.davemech.org/news.html The other problem with his original study is that it was on unrelated wolves (not part of the same family pack) stuck in a cage/run that was way too small for their relationship comfort.

Flawed logic. She includes "negative punishment" with "positive reinforcement" which is her "first pillar" In the diagram bit she says "use positive reinforcement" not "this pillar is positive reinforcement" You're arguing about semantics. She named her first thing - "first pillar" and wrote a description, she did not equate it with the scientific term which is part of Operant conditioning. And I so hope someone comes up with a better naming system for the components of Operant Conditioning and the science study it is part of. Cos the semantic are really really confusing. Which is why she was trying to avoid the terms as much as possible.

I had a look (Cos I've never heard of these 4 pillars and it's unfortunate that she doesn't include a fifth pillar of "control the environment" or something. Just to make it look different to Operant Conditioning (4 quadrants). You say she doesn't mention "negative punishment" - did you read what she wrote? Here it is. And she calls her method "positive training" not "positive reinforcement" which I don't like because gee - "positive punishment". https://positively.com/dog-training/positive-training/what-is-positive-training/ But we shouldn't get hooked up on semantics. Forcing a dog to do something and beating it or scolding it when it doesn't do what you want are not reliable training methods compared to reward based training.

This is the old thread if anyone wants to go back and review what they posted in there (eg me). http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/259072-serious-agression-issues-german-shepherd-pup/page__p__6549719#entry6549719 Afterbans I do love an update. I'm pretty sure that's not how haltis and other dog head halters are meant to be used. The way Susan Garrett does it, is to hold the lead in the left hand and slide the right hand (or swap for your strong hand/arm), with the base of your hand first, so that it comes up under the dogs chin where the lead attaches and then sort of twist the wrist and bring the dog's head away from the thing (car) that they're looking at, get him looking at you. There's no "Leave it" or cue... he's got to learn to make a good choice without you telling him what to do. She holds until the dog is calm and paying attention to her, and then releases to see what the dog's choice is, if the dog turns towards the thing again - if he's calm and looks ok, if he starts to move/lunge/obsess, she turns the dog's head again. She uses it to get control of the dog's head and where it is looking rather than as a punishment for being naughty. You can actually break a dog's nose (or the dog can do it to itself) if you yank hard and sudden enough - which is why it needs to be on a short lead so the dog can't get the momentum up and you don't use it like a choke collar (no yanking). When I used a gentle leader, I generally had two leads attached - one to the collar or harness, and one to the chin strap so if my dog did launch - I wasn't risking breaking her sinuses.

You could offer him a trade, eg see if he will drop the chicken for a sardine in olive oil... Then lure him back to where you want him (with the sardine) and prevent him from relocating... Susan Garrett plays a swapsies game with her resource guarders... she gives puppy a plain chicken neck and then offers to swap for a chicken neck dipped in salmon oil (she's in Canada so I guess salmon oil is easy to get). When a puppy is completely comfortable with the idea that giving you his food means he gets something better, he's way more likely to do it. I'm always interrupting my dog to put something better in her bowl or give her something from my hand. I never pull her off her food. I don't have to. We do a lot of training around her dinner. Because that's the best reward I have and I can really only use it once - unless I hand feed all of it, and I do that sometimes. So I got my recalls and stays going in front of her dinner and using her dinner as distraction proofing. If you can get your dog to recall by its dinner, that's a pretty good recall. In the house at least. And stay - build up duration, really slowly puddle of drool in front of dinner. Ie half a second stay the first time. If dog can't hold a stay while I put the bowl down / food into the bowl, dog doesn't get dinner. So there's a lot of stuff that some of my friends think is teasing where I play "its yer choice" with my dog and food. If she tries to steal the food, she doesn't get it. If she's good and waits - I put it in her mouth and she can "geddit"... Once she's comfortable with the idea that she's going to get all the food or at least some of it, she's very willing to play the game and loves trying to figure out what she's got to do to get the treat. Better way to tire a dog than a long walk too. Mental exercise. So you want to start with really easy games with a puppy but as the puppy gets better - you make a tiny bit of the game harder, ie work on duration or work on distance but not both at once. Or work on distractions (but not duration and distance). Note I would not let the kids play these games with the dog. PS if I really want to make it clear to dog when she's not doing what I want... I play these games with potato crisps, if she tries to steal - I eat the chip.

I got this link from Steve White who trains Law Enforcement Dog Trainers in the USA - especially for tracking but other stuff too. Steve is a fan of positive re-inforcement. His very first dog taught him that the traditional methods were a pile of crap. http://www.k9workingheroes.co.uk/blog/victoria-stilwell-bitten-can-police-dogs-be-trained-with-positive-methods/ It seems that a lot of the backlash against Victoria - is more about the old school trainers trying to debunk reward based training as a reliable training method and arguing that you still need to use compulsion and aversives. The article suggests that using compulsion - is an unreliable method of training and unpleasant for dog and handler. Ie you train a dog "not to" bite by punishing it - is not a reliable way to stop it from biting when you're not paying attention. So those saying that Victoria Stillwell isn't a "real dog trainer" might want to take a look in the mirror - at the person who is avoiding the methods that good scientific study has shown - over and over - is the most reliable way of training any (healthy) animal.

what happens to the poor critter when the door is set to not open and they hit it at full blast? Cos that's what my dog does. There would need to be a visual barrier that is significantly different to how the door looks when open.

I saw an interview somewhere with her, and she said that the Dom outfit was because the producers liked it - would not have been her first choice for every day dog training wear. Jamie Oliver said in an interview that the producer insisted he wear jeans and slide down the banister rail every time - to the point he was going through a pair of jeans per episode... Sometimes producers or directors "tweak" things for TV.

The story mentioned the dogs being "cadaver dogs" - as opposed to arrest dogs... But I think any dog that is super excited about being around the helicopter might do something unexpected.

The ugly side of recycling - was this even after mad cow disease and mass disease outbreaks in chickens?

yuck. I like to feed my dog something I make from roo and other stuff, from human grade ingredients. I do feed an expensive kibble, but I don't like thinking too hard about what goes into those things. Back in the doggy dark ages (or third? world countries or some outback communities), dogs are still fending for themselves on what ever humans throw out or they can catch themselves. Short hard lives. I know chocolate (in moderation) is meant for humans but I don't think sawdust and floor scrapings from battery chook pens is meant for dogs. Tho I'm pretty sure mine would love it. If they could make what washes up on the beach into kibble she'd be happy.