Mrs Rusty Bucket

I have the sensible, it was fitted for me initially by the lady who sold it to me. The instructions are pretty detailed, something about over the back and under the tummy being adjusted to be the same length and not making it too tight ie being able to get a thumb in under the tummy when the dog is in sit, with a neat fit from there across the chest. I met someone with a great dane who tried it and couldn't get it to fit her dog. I figure the shape of the dog would affect whether these things could operate successfully. Plus with the sensible - the most control you get is when you pull the lead straight up and slightly back - which would be hard with a great dane unless you're really really tall too. I do find it easy and I can hand my dog wearing hers to my mum who has full control. Dog tends to behave better when wearing it anyway but occasionally if she forgets herself - it gives much greater leverage. The alternative to that is the head halti - (nose band thingy) used as described in Susan Garrett's "Ruff love". I'd like my dog to stop sniffing for possum poo and lost bbq sausage but I'm not ready to implement the instructions in that book.

I'm not sure it's worth behaviour training for the dog at that age, unless you think you have several more years with it. For the whipper snipper operator though, training might work. Before getting out or starting up the whipper snipper, make sure dog is secure, ideally inside the house, inside a crate. The guy that does my lawns does not start up any machinery until the dog is secure. It's almost impossible for him to get through any of the gates without receiving a very loud welcome - though in the last couple of days I've met two people - meter reader and a stray dog owner who have ignored that. Neither got eaten but sheesh, could you use the door bell or wait? I knew an ACD who had scars across his face from biting a chainsaw when it was operating. Off was fine, not interesting but on - got attacked. Same for lawnmowers, whipper snippers and power screwdrivers etc. ACD was scared of vaccuum cleaner. Go figure. Hope your dad is ok.

Same beach, different day. Last Saturday morning - weird jogger. (lots of other boring joggers too and toddlers - which were no problem or interest to my dog) This morning (Friday) - no joggers... My comment about balance... This thread is interesting in that some think that unless your dog is 100% perfect and proofed in every situation (including ones you cannot predict, imagine or create test for), then you should never let it off lead. However - how do you test that your dog is 100% proofed then? My dog is spending a little bit more time on lead at the moment while we do rehab on the training, especially if there is anything around I think she would find distracting. But some (not posting in this thread) by their actions out there in the dog exercise areas - seem to think that wild dogs are ok. I think the right balance is between... hence my poorly worded "comment"

I'm not perfect, but I watch my dog more and have better control than most other people I share the off lead spaces with, and I practice control exercises and recall on and off - for the whole walk. The best exercise my farm dog bitza can get in the city is a good zoomie or wrestle with other dogs who match her play as she matches theirs. She leaves old dogs alone, and is gentle with puppies, the boarding kennel staff love her cos they can let her exercise with any other dog and she will play how it likes to play. I wish all dogs were like that but they're not. Police dog - eating SWF - I'd still make an exception for a *working* police dog - if they're hunting bad guys and if the SWF is supposed to be on lead or rushes a working police dog... It is interesting that with all their training, 100% recall isn't always one of the things they're working for. I couldn't get anything useful training or technique wise from the police dog trainers that visited AWL re-union, and their dogs stayed in their crates. A pity, but it was a very popular stand. I've also seen the tracker dogs out working and it is very interesting to watch. They often find the bad guys. As I thought I said before - the beach was off lead allowed at the time. If the jogger had not made all sorts of weird noises and then yelled at me, my dog would never have gone anywhere near him. Seriously she leaves most joggers alone. Joggers can help me help them, or they can encourage a dog to bark at them, but I agree, I should have seen that new thing coming and stopped my dog before she could make that mistake. There were no joggers on the beach this morning. It was 100% dog walkers and all the dogs and owners were nice. The weather was a little bit wild and stormy. I also avoid the fenced dog parks, because of badly behaved dogs, owners that don't pick up, badly behaved owners, and the parks are too small to allow free running. It would be very sad if I couldn't run the dog at the beach because there is a risk, smaller than the risk of pranging the car on the way, that she would hurt something or be hurt by something. Can't defend the boxer any more - my dog doesn't do what he does and she makes more friends. But I still think the GR should be off the park. We will have to see. I will be avoiding our oval doggy christmas party or at least not taking my dog because it is the worst example of owners not paying attention to bad behavior by their dogs including dogs stealing food from children and owners refusing to replace it. Sigh. Not to mention all the crap everywhere. I pick up most craps I see (when it's not too overwhelming) because I figure I'll be the one that steps in it next time (karma crap), and last Christmas I spent the entire time I was there with my dog on lead with me while I picked up other dogs craps. Sucks big time. I have heard of dog parks in the USA where the area is supervised and owners with dogs that between them are agressive or don't clean up, get kicked out. In fact the dogs are tested for aggression before they're allowed out there. I guess in the bigger cities in Australia - it's only a matter of time before parks like that will become economic. I have also heard that there are dogs in North America that show up for agility training that have never had the opportunity to run flat out in their lives. Sad. There must be a balance between obnoxious out of control dogs and owners and people trying to do the right thing.

I guess that would include all reseach involving developing medical care and vaccines for animals or using live animals to produce same for humans - no snake antivenom or vaccines for any diseases for starters. And no research on animal behaviour or habitat requirements or breeding cycles etc - so we couldn't look after them in the wild either? And no research on training. And no pets. No pets as therapy or guide dogs or disabilaty aid dogs, or quarantine inspection dogs or cancer detection dogs etc. No search and rescue dogs (or horses). No agility or obedience or flyball or dock diving... I agree that vegetarian aka vegan meals should be available any place that serves meals to the public. It's not that hard. Hello? Trapped on an airplane - can I have vegan and I don't want grain fed (battery farm) beef thanks... Eliminating animal agriculture would mean the death of countless animals and it would be difficult to justify maintaining habitat (if we knew what it was) for wild animals too so generally less animals on the planet full stop. Number 5 - we're all going to starve. No predator control - so even if I grow my own organic veg - I can't step on a snail or kill an aphid or mouse. Um. I don't love the life of a seed eating nomad that much. And water is an agricultural chemical - so I encourage the person who wrote this list - to stop drinking water. GM tech was around as an idea in 1987. But if they outlaw breeding and agriculture then selective breeding for plants and animals isn't going to happen. Do even the radical animal rights people believe the human race can survive comfortably following this set of rules now? I fully agree we need to manage the number of humans on the planet to live sustainably (not that we well ever get good agreement on how to do that) but humans have always eaten some meat, and have been farming by accident or deliberately and manipulating the environment (selective breeding) for a very very long time. Just burning the landscape for "green pick" will do this, and that's been happening for 40K years plus just in Australia. It's hard to point at anything "natural" in the Australian landscape that hasn't been affected by this. I do not want to live in the dirt eating uncooked seeds where most people would die of infection before they reach 20.

What is a Maltese terrier? There is a whole website dedicated and named after that, the link I will not include here but you can find it by putting the M word and T word into a popular search engine. So a "Maltese" dog is not actually a terrier? Or is Maltese Terrier actually a mis scribing of "Maltese Terror" ie what happens when you get a small white dog of Maltese descent - and don't train it.

Thanks for all your replies. Yes the growly dog (a boxer) belonged to a friend / regular dog park user and I've never seen it get into a fight before, not even close. It would rather run away. I don't get how so many people think it is fine for dogs to rush up to dogs they don't know. But in this case the dogs knew each other but the attacking dog - a Golden Retriever!!! had attacked other dogs before so I think it is the one that needs better control. That owner has no control. The owner of the boxer is a bit slack as far as watching her dog, but we all look out for each other and most people there can get distracted by a chat - as I do. My unfavourite is when I let someone know their dog has done a number 2, and that's when my dog sneaks one in. But usually I find it or someone lets me know for which most of us are grateful. It's a cricket/football oval - so there is more room than your average dog park and there are gaps so it's hard for a dog to be cornered in a chase, but if the other dog has it in its mouth then different story. Dogs are supposed to be "under effective control" ie close to owner and come when called. The boxer was, although the owner was looking the wrong way, but the GR was not. Woman on beach - yes there is just not enough places for people who need mental health care in our state - so I will just have to put it down to that or report her if her dogs have no tags. I didn't get a chance to check last time. Is annoying not to get her on the real attitude problem but getting her off the beach would be a start. Jogger on the beach - yes my fault. Just haven't proofed my dog against every kind of jogger like the rare noisy weird ones. I'd have had effective control if I could have gotten a word in edgewise - some joggers make it very hard to sort the problem quickly. I did stop her from chasing him immediately, just couldn't actually catch her until he got out of my head (really bad, I needed to change the game but I couldn't think with him yelling at me). Most joggers, she leaves alone or I can call her back before she gets near them - she leaves them alone. And yes I hate it too if I'm jogging or playing hockey and a dog ends up in the way. I've got really good control but it's not yet 100%. It's more like 99% whiich is still about 25% to 99% better than most other teams out there. It was in the off lead time for dog walking. Most Adelaide suburban beaches are dog off lead before 10am and after 8pm in summer (daylight savings months) but the dogs are supposed to be under effective control - one council ranger described this as "police dog standard", I was thinking "obedience dog club standard" with discount off my rego must be close. If they really mean "police dog standard" they probably should make all the beaches on lead all the time with an exception for working police dogs. There are no jogger or toddler free times - which would be nice. On weekday mornings there is almost nobody there. Gotta love Adelaide. I'm really careful around small children but need to be more careful / aware where there are runners too.

three bad experiences, never think of the right come back line until it's too late. First one - at the beach - a woman has two jack russel type dogs, one is barking a lot. The relatively quiet one does a crap which woman pretends not to see so I offer her a bag and she picks it up. Then she walks off with her dogs, I call my dog back to me because clearly barking dog is upset by my dog's presense - despite my dog doing the commando crawl grovel. Barking dog is still barking, woman grabs dog by collar, rubs its head into the sand (Cesar Milan Alpha roll method) then gives it several taps on the head with her throwing stick. Lets dog go and it continues to bark (so how's that training technique working for you?). I decide I can't be near this woman so I slow down my walk until she is further up the beach and I have a vent to a nice lady with a border collie puppy. And as we progress up the beach, I see the bag with the crap - IN THE WATER. I am shocked. I know it's my bag because it has my council name on it not the local council name. I contemplate running up the beach to yell at this woman. Border collie owner continues up beach and I go back to my car with my dog and home (put bag in bin on the way). We meet up again the next day and she confirms yappying jack russell lady was no longer carrying the bag when she got a close look the day before. What would you do if you see that woman again? If she wasn't prepared to put bag in the bin she should have been honest about it. I would have done it for her but what a horrible person. Second bad experience: A couple of days later at the beach (hot week), I'd just finished a session of obedience moves with my dog including recall and heel and about turn, sit, drop etc and set her "free". A jogger comes up the beach and attracts both our attention because he's huffing and snorting like a stroppy possum. So my dog runs around him barking. She doesn't touch him and as I try to get her attention back - the jogger starts yelling abuse at me about how I have an uncontrollable dog and it should be on lead and not at the beach etc etc. I get my dog's attention and he goes away, but I can't catch her immediately, she thinks we're into a great game of "chase me". I should have turned it into a game of chase the boss, but my brain switched off when the jogger started yelling at me. My dog doesn't normally chase joggers. She will quite happily ignore a whole football team of joggers. She will chase me when I run away. I've trained her to do that. All I could think later was there was something special about possum breath that she picked out - maybe the fact that he likes to abuse women - except I'm pretty sure she wanted to play with him like she mistook him for another dog. Anyway my bad for not anticipating her bad behaviour or being able to think when being yelled at. Sigh. Third bad experience: dog fight at local park - why me? So I had just packed up treats after sharing with my dog and another dog. A third dog came charging up to us, and the other dog was caught by surprise and did a warning "back off" growl. The third dog went beserk and attacked the dog that growled. Not just a bluff and huff but full on teeth and grabbed hold of the now upside down dog, by the back end and shook. The ex growly dog was now bleeding. The third dog's owner came from the far side of the oval and pulled her dog out by its tail. And then she lets it go and of course it jumps straight back on the ex growly dog and rips in some more. Meantime I catch my dog to stop her from running circles and barking (several other dogs were now also doing this). Great. Attacking dog's owner was extremely angry that none of the rest of us helped her. How were we supposed to help her? I went and told some of the others whose dogs were barking that a dog was bleeding and they might want to get their dogs away from the vicious one. And I got the bleeding dog's owner to check for injuries - she had no idea since her dog had run to her and then sat on its most obvious wound. Attacking dog's owner did not try to find out whether the other dog was ok, or apologise or offer any help there. The bleeding dog's owner wasn't watching her dog and only saw what happened afterwards. Today there was a similar situation with the same bleeding dog growled at another dog, no food involved and that dog backed off appropriately and there was no fight. The injury had cost $120 for vet inspection, cleanup and antibiotics for the puncture wounds. Bleeding dog seems ok, and functioning well although quite stiff for a while. I reported dog fight to council. Attacking dog not wearing council rego tag so could be done for that alone. Though I'm not sure how much I want to get its owner in trouble. However she now has a very big undesexed male dog who is attacking other dogs (this was not the first time according to others) and she's also pissing off the grounds keeper because this dog keeps digging holes in the freshly watered cricket pitch. Owner has zero control over it and no recall whatsoever, was offered top level dog training help, that I would have taken up in a second, and she turned it down. I'm not sure what to do next or if I see them again. The attacking dog is usually at that park much earlier than I am but occasionally at the same time. I've had problems with it sitting on my dog and dog lead when I'm trying to go home and I've had to yell at the owner to get it off us, so we can leave. Really really obnoxious dog and it's all the owner's fault. So what would you guys do - if you see any of these people again, or if this happens to you?

I met one person who tried to tell me that their dog was a proper pure bred oodle because both its parents were oodles. I dunno what that is apart from potentially in bred mutt - ie the off spring of two spaniel x poodle is what? Is that somehow better than the first gen cross?

The Farley Mowat book "never cry wolf" suggested the wolf's diet was mostly small rodents like mice. So I guess feeding whole (dead) mice would be ok. Except I doubt my dog would actually eat that if I gave it to her. She likes roast chicken (with or without bones) but isn't really interested in dead critters - except as perfume or something to roll in.

I don't let my dog eat bones unsupervised. It doesn't matter if they're raw. She makes splinters out of them and then eats the splinters. Any bone from beef neck/vertebrae, lamb shanks - which my vet *recommended*, and the big beef shin bones. The splinters either get vomitted - usually at 3am on the antique persian carpet, or crapped, again causing unexpected uncontrolled explosions, dog doesn't quite make it outside. I gave her a raw chicken wing - once - never again. That also came back to haunt us and I can no longer look at pink frosting without thinking of that vomit. And there is also this risk - and something similar happened to a dog that inhaled a chicken carcass on bondi vet. http://www.adelaidevet.com.au/zoes-bony-treat What she gets instead? Lots of carrots, rationed bits of rawhide (and yes they've got their own problems), and dried roo strips (not the bones, just flesh). Teeth seem ok. Very white. She likes the pedigree dentastix that secret santa sent too. Must put photo up in correct thread.

I think Sleek Geeks did a show where Adam held a "baby" under the influence of gravity and Karl added weight to demonstrate the force at different speeds ie if the crash happened at 5km/h, 10km/h etc. And I think Adam dropped the baby at 25km/h or some really surprisingly slow speed. I've had to stop suddenly from something less than 50km/h on a street close to home, when some idiot decided not to give way at a T intersection - how you can not-see a white toorak tractor beats me. And dog fell off back seat, no major damage but after that I decided I needed a harness for her especially if we were going anywhere at all fast. I had to stop using the kramar one when the plastic buckle prong part of the clip broke though. Got a better brand of harness with nice wide straps, but still use the kramar plug in the seat belt bit clip on the harness, so much easier to use than the ones you thread the seatbelt through. Dog is reasonably co-operative. She doesn't move much or try to help me drive at all. Never has but she's the first dog I've driven around that doesn't try to get in my lap. A previous dog I used to drive around once stood on the electric window open button, she enjoyed sticking her head out the window. Fortunately I could fix that with the child lock. It still upsets me when I see dogs or children or adults hanging bits out car windows. I saw one guy on the hay plains with his feet out the passenger window. Obviously hadn't hit a locust swarm yet, but only a matter of time out there. Yuck. And hitting bugs that big at 40km/h hurts (I know from treadly riding).

it depends I like to do two long walks, one am and one pm, but if I had puppy again, I'd do lots of shorter walks. I do lots of short training sessions. I can't always fit two long walks into the day but I don't always know in advance which one is not going to happen (thunderstorms can be hard to predict).

Thankyou Tokkie Frosty still has sand on her face from the beach that morning - oops. And I love the one of Nandi upside down between two lappies, uh a lappy and a lappy look alike? And the one of Asia in christmas rig... It was a great meet up... until the heavens opened and even my water baby evil hound objected.

I feel a tiny bit guilty every time I eat pork products - because pigs are so intelligent and interested in life. Sigh. Even fish have intelligence. Goldfish do have memories that last longer than three seconds. Even if it is from classical conditioning (pick up the food).

I've got a barker. One of my fellow students tried "it's yer choice" at seminar, when SG was there but before she had started. She hates barking... So my dog barks - we end session - all chance of reward gone at that point. Dog has got the message that if she starts barking without being asked, the game is going to be over, I'm going to pack up the treats and tugs and end the session. She still chats a bit, I don't mind that. You need to be really careful not to (seem to) reward the noise if you don't want noise. If the dog is doing it more than once, I think the dog thinks "crying" is what it takes to get the job done. Of course you can click and treat the crying... I did that with my dog's barking, added a cue "what you say?" and she talks, and as I click/yes/treat the first noise I hear, now she only makes just enough noise to get the treat. Ie it shuts her up. And time how long it takes for the crying to start and plan to end before that time is up for the next few sessions, or have a "balance break" before the crying usually starts... Five minutes without a "balance break" might be too long for a young dog. A balance break is a quick game of tug or play to get the dog focussed and interested again. However if the dog is paying attention and trying stuff, then you might be able to go a bit longer to allow the dog to find the new behaviour you want. Sometimes it is good to reward every new thing, until you get a step in the right direction then reward only that - when you get three (maybe a few more for a GSP) of what you want, up the criteria for another step in the right direction. I'm still avoiding starting the ruff love program with my dog. I guess I can finish reading "shaping success" and make a plan of how I want my dog to be (good stays, recalls, and less annoying behaviours) so I can measure any progress. Not looking forward to "record keeping" either but I guess I will have to get over that. Might have to invest in a pocket cricket scorer to count for me though. I can count treats but they're gooey. http://www.cricketumpire.co.uk/prod2.cfm?product=59627

If you give the command to get in her crate - then yes she should drive in with enthusiasm. If nothing further happens, the dog is free to chill out whatever way it wants (as long as it doesn't break the plane of the door), especially if the crate door gets shut. Ideally not barking its head off. We had one dog at SG's workshop that kept running in her(his?) crate instead of staying out to do the work, the crate was part of it but a task needed to be done first but that dog was gone already. I don't blame it - there were lots of very excited dogs around and it was a little bit anxious. 55chevy: Susan Garrett's crate games is 1. getting dog happy in the crate 2. getting the dog to act with self control (stay and recall) 3. getting the dog to work into and out of the crate with enthusiasm and speed that can be "transferred" to other tasks like agility work. Agility sport is a race - so getting a dog to work as fast as it can, is often part of the goal. And Crate training the SG way can help with that. If you're not into dog sports, you might not need crate games, but if you do want a nice enthusiastic recall and a really solid stay without fussing then maybe you could use it. You do have to watch it over and over to get the sublties of the training, and even then - there are still questions or ways to misunderstand it which get sorted at Say Yes training seminars.

SG has home crates built into her kitchen that the dogs use for kennels and she uses to keep puppies and new (rescue) dogs out of trouble when she's unable to pay them attention (computer blamed most often). Once the dog has the hang of the routine, she leaves their doors open. She says, the dog only has to stay in the crate until you release it - if you sent it there. The dog is smart enough to know the difference between when you tell it to do something (you must release) and when it does it of its own accord (it can release itself). I am experimenting with "game over" for I'm done training for now, no more treats, amuse yourself release. Vs "Go" (or "Break") for let's work doing fun stuff ie get your re-inforcement now. I think SG makes no distinction and the dogs make their own decision based on context ie "break" at the back door means something different to "break" at the start line or it means the same, but the most rewarding thing to do is different in each situation. Also for stage three - she stays very close to the crate, ie arms length. For stage four she moves to a soft sided crate(s) and more space. Ie the metal mesh crates are not so good for high speed driving in and out. Mostly she used that in the clip so we could all see what she was doing. At least that's what I think she said about it. PS it's fairly clear on the dvd that she has different crates for different dogs and the release is either "dogs name + ok" or a different word for each dog. So a dog may only come out when she says its name and the release word.

Dogs have good hearing. Gary Wilkes says that clicker training in a group is fine, dogs can tell which one will get them their treat. Susan Garrett says they're best for precision training, and not so good if you're trying to teach a "send" which is go and keep going... you can, but it's harder. The main time she uses one is when teaching a dog how to fall off (jump off) the dog walk. I used one to teach "tail worky" and "roll over" and "lie here while I clip your nails". In fact for the last one, I used the nail clipper as the clicker. But actually trimming nails - still squeezed and hurt. So fail. Got me a finger sander instead. At least Paul Bright is being a tiny bit more upfront about where he's at than some of the other dog forums he's spammed - where he kept posting in very old threads and not reading anyone else's responses. Bright? or Dim?

I wonder if this person knows where milk comes from and where beef and other meat comes from? The whole farming industry is "prostitution".

Remember to check the weather forecast... if the 9am forecast is 32'C or higher they cancel the morning session, and if it's 35'C or over at 5pm they cancel the evening session. And the current forecast is 35'C so that would be a cancel unless they change it tomorrow morning... http://www.bom.gov.au/sa/forecasts/adelaide.shtml and http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDS60901/IDS60901.94675.shtml PS I think we'll go to the beach tomorrow morning at sparrow fart.

I've got a squirrel dude that gets extended attention if there is any kibble in it. Unlike a Kong, it has some little prongs at the bottom to hold the dog food in. So if somebody gets the munchies in the middle of the night, I get treated to some nocturnal rubber banging on the floor as she tosses it. Other toys, only good if I'm working them which is ok by me. Fave toys are ones she can destroy. Biggest waste of money for me - is buying a toy that doesn't last 5 minutes, even when I'm supervising. So most toys I don't leave where she can help herself and that helps increase the novelty value.

I think my dog makes less mess less often than my brother's children... And if she's really being obnoxious I can put her in a crate - which she actually enjoys (large amounts of roast chicken and promite on toast help). But - I wish she would stay out of the bushes on the river bank where there might be snakes or ticks. Come when you're called, bitch. I really should work on that more often - it's all my fault. And there is nothing like having a reflection of your own faults or lack of skill as a dog trainer sleeping on the couch. But I love patting her. And I love that she will act as door bell when the lawn mower man doesn't press the button...

I think I've definitely met Riley. I've got a soft spot for GSP, and Frosty has greeted the ones I see at club. Do you remember an extremely grovelly Blue Heeler X with a black patch on her bum and over her right eye? I usually go Tuesday Mornings and Wednesday nights. And Ness, remember I want to borrow GD #3... but probably won't get to it till December. Life is frantic right now. And look I'm posting on the net... I should be doing other things. Kavik is probably right about what SG said. We went to the same seminar last week... I don't think the jumps were full height though. I've watched the first Susan Salo - it's about setting up a bounce (trotting pole) on the lead into a low height jump and then varying it to teach a dog where to take off and be confident about it. Like equestrian training. My dog is so strong she will take flying leaps from far away or do standing jump from close up and still clear her height, but what she really needs is "focus forward", ie don't look at me, look at where you're going... which is like the opposite of obedience training. Crate games is good for that. So is the 2x2 weaver training.

The insurance company I've got puts a limit around the $15000 a year mark. But maybe I'd cough up more. It depends on a lot of things, mostly being on the chance of a good quality of life after spending the bikkies and to a lesser amount - what else could I do with the money - ie if I get another dog that is healthy. Like how many dogs could you rescue for the same money?