Mrs Rusty Bucket

A black fella in NSW told me this and he seemed genuinely wary of my dog who is the biggest grovelly sook ever... He said Heelers were used and bred to herd and attack blackfellas. Sigh. I can't say it wasn't true but my dog wasn't there at the time and certainly didn't want to hurt him. She's much more tolerant than I am.

I agree with what the others have said. I wouldn't expect a puppy to have good control (mindfullness?) before about 14 to 16 weeks. And I wouldn't expect it to last all night until at least 12 weeks. I took mine out last thing, first thing and in the middle of the night, plus every time she woke up or finished playing or started sniffing - until she was at least 14 weeks old maybe older and remain vigilant when she can't get her self out. I think we had maybe two accidents (my fault for not watching/noticing the sniffing) and one bad food explosion (not her fault). And some puppies are slower than others - so be guided by results. I also crated my dog if I had to leave her in the house unattended at all until she was around 6 months and totally reliable inside. So she couldn't pee randomly anywhere. I read the thread topic as the puppy had started house training the owners (ie role reversal) oops.

Meh I'd rather train my dog than date him too. Eeek. I also have had conversations like that face to face.

local council regulations and australian road rules are making it harder and harder to take a dog for a walk and get it any form of decent exercise... Having said that - if the dog is old and decrepit and has difficulty walking - I would think it cruel to force it to go for a walk. Visiting new places for a sniff would be good but not all that important. Is it true the RSPCA is trying to make not walking the dog a criteria for cruelty ie they can take the dog away if it isn't getting walked?

Hi GG85 What Erny said - I agree. Playing tug. You have something she likes to play tug with - I have loads of different things but they're only out for training. Frosty's current fave is a bungee tug with a fake fur pocket that I've stuffed with a cheap squeaky toy. A skinnee racoon was popular but it's completely shredded now. Rope toys are good too - just beware of the dental floss teeth gum shredding is under control. So I use "geddit" for she can grab the tug and "give" for let go of it. I also use "Thank you" for things I want her to drop or trade like other dog's toys at the park. So if your play tug command is "break", then you'd wave the tug around saying "break" (this is when I do repeat the command, but you don't have to), and when she grabs hold, (I used to use "get hold" for grab the tug too), then you play tug. And you say "give" when you want the toy back but I usually do that every few seconds or so, and most times I let her have it straight back with a "geddit" (break) and when she's excited - no repetition is necessary and she's got an excellent understanding of what it means. SG uses both "geddit" and "break" but in slightly different circumstances. "break" she most often uses for "play with me - lets do agility (games)". Ie on that command - the dog will take off at full speed and jump all the agility obstacles SG indicates by hand and body placement. The reward during training - is a tug toy. The balance break - is almost always a combo of "out" for "give" and "geddit" for "get hold" of the tug. They're not going anywhere at full speed. A game I like to play and I'm guilty of using "go" (my break word) and "geddit" is "wait" then run flat out for the toy... ie I put her in a nice stay position, tell her to "wait" (SG says command is optional depending how you've trained). I walk away, and then I get set and hold one hand up and when I'm ready I say "geddit" or "go" and sometimes I run straight away and sometimes just after she starts and sometimes I just stand there. And as she gets to me - I swap the tug into the hand I waved so she comes on that side (which is other point of the exercise after the stay until released). That's an SG or Greg Derrett game. My dog loves it. It's to the point now where I try to fake her out by bouncing or pretending I've forgotten (ie standing up and relaxing) and if she moves - we set up again with no tug game... I usually let go of the tug when she gets to me because she is going so fast I don't want to risk pulling her teeth and my shoulder out by hanging on. The next trick is getting her to bring the toy back - but she's getting better. Another game that helps my dog understand the release word is to play SG's "its yer choice" with food treats (or dinner kibble). You hold a piece of food in your hand and close your hand over it and hold it in front of your dog. When your dog backs her nose off your hand - you can open your hand. If dog closes back in - close hand... when dog manages to hold position while you have hand open and pick treat up with other hand and give it to her (put it back if she moves forward again) etc... this progresses to chucking treats all around the dog while she holds position and then you can say "geddit" or "break" and the dog can go get all the treats. But I suspect in this situation if you're repeating the command the dog will think it's not doing the right thing the first time and start trying to figure out what you do want now that you didn't mean before... Each game involves raising the standard that the dog must achieve to get the treat - so you might want to look at ways you can reward speed more and slowness less. For me - a slow fetch - gets not much tug before we set up again, but a fast fetch gets a better game of tug... (another SG idea). Hope that helps. You might not be planning to do agility but most of the top competitors are top trainers first so there's plenty of useful info they have to share.

Hi KHM You can add Bucket and Frosty to the list. I still have trouble connecting most of us people face to face with the internet ids - pathetic I know. I think I have about four out of twenty reliably worked out. And some people - I know the dog and the internet id but not their real names. Frosty lurves deerhounds. And the ones we meet at Mortlock can rival Earl for slobber. I watched Frosty do slow laps around the oval being licked the whole way. Until she decided to do a couple of tight corners and crashed. Oops. Deerhounds do not do tight corners. PS I can usually be found at West Beach in the mornings of super hot days, there's always a bit of beach between the surf club and the sailing club. Will probably head there on New Years Day - if I survive NYE 36ers game.

Hi GoldenGirl85 What Erny said - about your GR working out that "surrendering" or shutting down is the fastest way to get what she wants is probably right. So from the Susan Garrett seminar, she credits Bob Skinner (extraordinary animal trainer) with this "It's ok to finish on failure" ie it's ok to stop even when the dog has not figured out what it's meant to be doing. It's not ok to reward that though. And SG is big on "balance breaks" ie after several attempts and failures or just five minutes of successful working - have a break - play bit of tug, have a bit of fun. Do something different. Like a "coffee" break for humans. The idea being to return to the session with a bit more focus. So if my dog "shuts down" (ie surrenders), I try not to reward that. I just stand there looking as stupid as her, until she does ANYTHING. And then I "yes" and treat each different offering. Except barking. I don't want her barking at me out of frustration - we get more than enough of that already. If she does that - I turn my back on her or end the game. I do most of my training before dinner. Some of it I do with the dinner. Eg the TOT. But I've varied that - she has to "focus forward" ie actually look at her dinner bowl before I release. Because in Agility - I want her to be looking at the first obstacle - not me. And I don't repeat the release word - otherwise I think it's like saying "sit sit sit sit sit". But I have a different release word for "permission to eat your dinner" to all the other release words. I find the release word - for start an agility run - being the same as the release word for "go play/sniff" or "go eat" confusing too. So I'm thinking about having different ones. I'm also thinking about keeping training records - sigh.

My dog sometimes does a goo covered poo. It's most likely after too many rawhide chews - one small piece is ok, lots is bad. Or if she's eaten something spikey that she should not have. Most recently - she got into cousins' dogs' bones. And that got us a chunder for the bigger spikey bits, and a gooey poo for the rest. I don't worry about it if the next poo is normal, but I am more dilligent about what she gets to eat - no cleaning up around the sports club bbq.

Bluefairy I guess it is mostly the novelty value and also a reflection of the pleased to see you vibe that the family displays towards you. My dog used to greet my mum by trying to jump all over her and lick her to death so I had to train her not to, and I had to train my mum too. Things that will help calm the dog down - like some of the others have said: Ignore the dog. Get your family to put it on lead so it cannot approach you without permission and certainly not while it is excited. Ignore it. This means - you don't make eye contact with it - very important. And you don't talk to it - also important. And you don't try to pat it (unlikely, but no reaching hands out to repel it either). And turn your back if it jumps at you. At this point - it helps if you're wearing sturdy trousers like jeans but it's better if the lead is used to prevent excited approach and jumping. Ideally if the dog calms down enough and is not pulling on the lead or jumping - then it would be ok to let it sniff you, no need for you to touch it. But it should not be allowed to approach unless it can do so on a loose lead, and be calm. And if the others in the family use squeaky toys or food to achieve this, it might work better than if you do it. Again - avoid eye contact. And avoid talking to it. It will regard any attention including scolding as encouragement. I think if you throw the food or toys, most dogs assume that if they come back - there will be more treats or games in it, ie they won't leave you alone. But if you decide to try that option, make very sure the treat or toy does not get thrown unless the dog is a comfortable distance away from you. If he is too close - don't throw (thereby not rewarding closeness). I think if you don't want to interact with the dog, then you're better off not feeding treats or throwing toys. But it may help if others in the family do in a way that rewards the dog for keeping his distance but also makes him happy that you're here.

shyfig and all I use pecariously stacked tin cans along my bench tops. So if dog jumps up or sniffs, they fall off and clang and make a lot of noise and being tin cans are not much fun to play with. I usually put a cream or yogurt lid under the bottom can to stop any chance of rust. Bonus of tin can method - they dob the dog in. I've also seen cats repelled by motion activated air fresheners...might work on a dog - depending what scent you pick. I've also used dabs and smears of vics vapour rub because it smells bad. I trade with my dog for leather sports balls, I have returned three and collected three so far this season, and we found and returned 22 last season. And she usually fetches my ugg boots to check if I'm paying attention before she starts plucking them. Ah hem. I mostly keep the bedroom door shut when I'm not in there. I also do my best to keep dog attracting things off the benches. And the dirty dishes are always pecariously stacked. I noticed dog was quite keen to help with pre-cleaning dishes stacked neatly in christmas venue dish washer machine. I blamed cousin's dog for leading her a-stray. And I shut all the doors.

An interesting test of their techique would be to send them DNA sample from the same dog - more than once ie see if they come up with the same list for the same dog - if you don't tell them it's the same dog. Expensive way to find out but if I was the people planning to sue, I'd do exactly that with their benchmark DNA dog first.

I'm at dog park with just me and my dog - it's a cricket oval, loads of room. I've been practicing drills with my dog - just for fun. Two little poodle / schnauzer like dogs show up, and the schnauzer type rushes my dog. And the poodle is hot on trail. Having posted here already about liking to greet on lead first... well there goes that. Owner has no clue her dogs are going to be in trouble if they keep doing that and I don't tell her. Neither of them come when she calls them. They don't even stop to check out who is calling... She does say "sorry, the schnauzer is just a puppy"... he looked full grown size to me. And then a lab came along and did the same again. He was a bit more persistant - cos I have treats and I didn't give him any. I hate being slobbered on. Did manage to persaude lab owner to pick up after her dog. I am sure she looked at him doing his crap and then kept walking until we yelled at her. She didn't need any help finding the spot so I don't know what she was thinking... That's another thing I hate - giant craps on the ovals. Takes a big dog to make a crap that big. And then there was some sort of huski like dog - wasn't a huski but one of those wolf looking breeds but this one had shorter fuzzier hair all over. I've had a few bad experiences with dogs that look like that so I was a bit worried - he was quite a bit bigger than the labrador. I thought I'll get my dog on lead and we can find out if he's friendly, but no - the "owners" let him off without greeting any of the other dogs on the oval and they'd never met any of them because they were just looking after dog for a friend. One of the pair of humans with this dog was extremely old school when it came to giving this dog directions - lots of scolding and yelling and no praise at all. This dog rushes me and my dog too. Sheesh. The fourth one in 10 minutes. They were all friendly but what if they were not. What if my dog wasn't. My dog was under control but none of the others were. I let my dog play with the fuzzy dog, and they're having quite a bit of fun, ignoring the fuzzy dog's guardians. I call my dog back to keep her closer to me, and fuzzy dog comes too. Ie he comes when I call but not when his responsible adults call him. Sigh. And this afternoon there's a lady walking her dog on the oval with no collar or dog rego. A group of us were discussing different ways to rack up fines - mostly with cars - but she was oblivious to the fact she could get one for having dog at park with no collar or lead. And that dog generally did not come when she called either. I consider myself very lucky that I have a dog that is such a grovel dog that she rolls over when she is rushed by other dogs. And she doesn't rush other dogs without permission. And she backs off if the other dog shows any sign of being uncomfortable with her presence - usually well before the other dog issues a growl. There are two dogs that visit our oval that I think I might sick the council ranger on to because the man does not pick up after them. Both of the dogs will rush my dog, they play too rough for her, and she freaks and runs away. It's very hard to get her back if shes them coming before I do. I don't think these dogs wear rego tags either so that would be enough to get them off. Or fined. Or discouraged. But half the dogs on the oval would be in trouble. Sigh, our dog management act covers what it needs to, but nobody enforces unless someone is bleeding. Sigh.

Kirislin It's usually not ok to copy something from another forum without permission from the forum owner, and ideally from the poster that wrote it. Copyright and all that. If it was my post I'd think it was rude but then again - never post anything on the net you wouldn't be happy to see on the front page news. As for what to post. Sometimes I don't post. Especially if I didn't know that person at all - hadn't read many of their posts etc. Otherwise if I do know them - the right thing to say just kind of writes itself. You don't want them to feel like a leper but you do want them to know you're there for them to say what they need to say, and feel what they need to feel. As far as not-functioning goes - what the others say - it's normal for a while. If she's close to you, you could take food that's easy to reheat and eat (casseroles) or high seratonin (dark chocolate, high fat and sugary), and something for the dogs to eat. Some people don't eat at all when they're grieving and some eat heaps and most have loads of guests to feed (if its an immediate family member who died) and they don't want to be shopping so helping out there can be practical. Don't say anything you don't mean sincerely. And don't expect them to tell you what you can do to help them. Mostly they have no clue and don't want to think about that. Just make your best guess from what they tell you. I often say I hope the person can make a great home for a new deserving dog, when they're ready. There are so many homeless dogs out there. It does depend on what I know about them though.

While you're worrying about gazebo real estate costs, you might want to read this thread which I found highly amusing. It's unlikely I'll ever be in a beauty contest with my farm dog bitsa but I can enjoy stories from those of you who do. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...194647&st=0

My dog (ACDx) is a great destroyer of things eg red kongs. But she hasn't destroyed the green everlast fun ball. Pele (previously mentioned Bull terrier) did manage to put some extra holes in it but not destroy it. Pele might have killed it eventually though if we'd left it with her. Unfortunately the everlast fun ball - medium sized one is about the same size as a tennis ball but won't come out of the chuck it arms that I've tried. You can run a bit of rope through it and use that to sling it or use a tennis raquett but that can get ikky when the ball gets wet/slobbery - though it doesn't absorb water the way tennis balls do. I've also used a slazenger cricket training ball - it's a bit softer than the standard one but I reckon would damage a dog that likes to catch a ball on the full. Tennis balls - usually get destroyed within the hour. Sometimes I can make them last a whole walk. But I don't pay for them. She finds them at and around our local tennis courts. Same deal with baseballs - anyone want some baseballs? Can't recommend hockey balls. They go all hard spikey when dogs chew on them. Nasty. They would also be like a brick as someone said if dog caught one that was moving at speed. And they sink. Now a lacrosse ball - is a tiny bit softer - it might be better. But I don't know what is in the middle of those things.

I feed my dog a tin of sardines over two days, about once a week. And I put wheat bran in her home made caserole and our fave treat is promite on toast - which we both like. Wholemeal bread. I also put cooked brown rice in the casserole. Which also has vitaimin E though it is questionable how much of the rice actually gets digested - given rice is how I tell which poo belongs to my dog... There is vitamin E in wheat bran. Woo hoo. And according to this thread - vitamin e in the sardines too (but I imagine fresh sardines would have more than tinned). Just wondering how a "balanced" raw diet can lead to vitamin deficiencies. All I can say is everything in moderation. My dog also gets a commercial dry kibble as the other half of her meal. So I figure any vitamims I miss in the casserole, she'd get in that. I must admit a search showed up a lot of pairings for vitamin E and fish oil ie you need both. I don't feed or eat fish oil I do feel eating your vitamins in naturally occuring food is the best way to get them. Then you don't get as many problems with refined stuff missing their nutritional partners. I am experimenting with putting calcium carbonate in the casserole. The current amount works out to about 1/2 a teaspoon per day. I don't feed bones to my dog because they tend to come back to haunt us in the middle of the night.

Hi Teal This seems like a friendly break up - if you're contemplating staying in the same house after you split. It should be ok to discuss the idea with your soon to be ex. If it's likely to be unfriendly - I'd take the dogs out first, with no warning and hide them with a friend he wouldn't know. I've heard of ex's doing extremely unpleasant things to their ex partner's pets and I wouldn't risk it. So if it's friendly break up - do you think you could cope with the idea of "shared custody" ie he has them for a week then you have them for a week. It would be a bit rude if he agrees to have them only on weekends, but if that works for you, why not. He may only want occasional visiting rights - would you be ok with that? You may find that he starts with shared custody of some sort and gradually you end up with them more and more often, until he only occasionally has them or when you need someone to look after them for you. If you don't want to separate the dogs, then keeping them together but splitting their time between you might be the way to solve it.

I end game or training session with "game over". It is good to have some word to say you're stopping. "go play" or "go sniff" would be good if "go" wasn't the word I want to use to start an agility run....um. Might have to come up with another one but currently it's my "release/break" word. She seems to know what "go say hello" means too. Most dogs know/learn the difference between gear being packed up (game over) and reward withheld (try something else). As far as tug techniques go - for the actual tug action - you want to avoid bouncy bouncy on the front legs and develop a good tug with the dog using its back end for leverage - to build a dog that works with strength from its back end and not on the front/forehand (equestrian methods from SG and Susan Salo). Of course the back end tug is much harder on you - so a bungy (elastic) tug makes things easier. I've also heard that "up and down" where the handler pulls the dog up in the tug - is bad. And "side side" where the handler pulls left then right then left then right etc is better - but that seems to lead to "bouncy bouncy" on the forehand to me. I try to pull towards me in line with the dog's back and head so she's not being pulled out of alignment - and she tends to sit into her back end and flick her whole body - which I just hold - no pulling required. And then I will do some side side like shake shake to build enthusiasm if she's not working it enough. I guess this could use some more thought and maybe some more academic input on the general idea of what the healthiest tug looks and feels like. I'm open to ideas. Also with your tug (and we fail) you want to avoid dog self rewarding and doing victory laps with the tug without you. For agility for some stuff (eg 2x2 weave training) you want to throw the toy/tug to where you want the dog to be (to reward it for being there), and then you want the dog to bring the tug back to you for the game of tug / build enthusiasm and drive. So somehow you need to reward and encourage the fetch with the game of tug, and not the victory lap followed by an occasional fetch. I'm not so good at that.

Hi LMS I think he gets a week being corrupted and then comes back to your place and tries to shape you into the same thing. So maybe the first time you want him "outside" or anything else at your place - have the lead on before you say the command and make him do it - so he doesn't get the chance to "rehearse bad behaviour" (what SG says). Depending where my dog and I are at with levels of compliance - I will make her walk one or two laps around the park before I let her off lead to remind her she has to earn the right... and she's much better behaved that way. Do you know why he runs back inside? Does he like the personal attention? Is there something about being outside that he doesn't like? I have the opposite problem with my dog - she won't come in when I ask her to sometimes, and I fix that by saying "shutting the door now" and shutting it. Althought I broke that phrase and now use "in or out" and if she's not headed towards the door when I've finished saying it, I shut the door and leave her out all on her own (which she does not like much) for at least five to ten minutes. And I don't let her in if she's barking. She likes the game of chase-me or me-chase-dog that used to start if I wanted to catch her - usually for a walk to the park. Go figure. She likes the park but not the trip between the house and the park.

I warm my dog up for shaping - SG trick - reward for every different response. Ie an eye flick, ear twitch, tail movement, tongue sticking out... but not for the same thing. And possibly not a good idea to reward barking... It took me a week to get her moving backwards for treats. I still haven't got it to the point where I want to name/cue it. But at least she's not just sitting and staring then barking at me. It started with treating every different response then focussing on the feet movement, especially getting the back feet moving backwards, so the first bit of reversing, she did in the sit position but at least she was going backwards. And I am teaching reversing because SG said it is a pre-requisite for 2x2. Ie all the body awareness skills - needed for weaving. Still got all the other stuff to go, like ladders and wobble cushions.

I tried giving my dog bones when she was a puppy and every now and again I try again - we survived the last lot of beef tail bones? that she found at my uncle's place - he has two dogs that can't crunch them up... Unfortunately there is no such thing as a large recreational bone she can't make splinters out of and swallow. I'm not so worried about choking as much as gut punctures and pain passing...

When I went to NSW Hunter Valley for Agility training seminar, I gave my dog proban tablets, which I started just before we left, forgot to give her some on the day we left the area but she is ok. The spot on I use is revolution which does not cover for ticks. Two WA dogs at the same venue got tick problems but I don't know what they were using if anything. There were several vets there, and I copied what they did as far as checking dog went. I mostly used feel because while her coat is very short, it is very thick and hard to see her skin through it except on her tummy. Also checked around and inside lips, eyes and ears and the tail area. I didn't find anything but others did. Blech. We (dog) did go swimming a lot and it was extremely wet there - rained several times a day and the whole grounds were sodden. I got the proban (and some of those tick twister things) from vetproductsdirect.com.au http://search.vetproductsdirect.com.au/vet/Tick%20Remover

My dog pulled like a tractor with caterpillar treads before I got the front attach harness. The noseband stopped her pulling but she tended to walk with her shoulder forward and her head pulled back towards me - no matter how light a lead I put on it, and I was scared to put a webbing lead on because she can chomp through a standard one in three bites. But I did. And she didn't but I didn't give her a chance. Hard work for both of us. Front attach harness (sensible) much easer for me and I could quite easily demonstrate the difference to other people, all I'd have to do is get them to hold the lead attached to flat collar and walk away from my dog, - she'd pull after me in full crawl mode, and then swap the lead to the front attach, and walk away again... and she couldn't do it - took the power out of it.

I gave my dog a lamb shank on vet's recommendation (maybe he was hoping to make more money out of me). We had a late night vomit of a 20cm sized round bit, and then a very early morning (like 3am) pain in the nether regions and decidedly horrible uncomfortable number 2 problems. But it did all come out ok in the end. I just wouldn't do that to her again any time soon. How do you teach a dog to chew her food properly?

If we're going to go all nanny state on this, why not require pet owners to apply for a licence which requires passing at least a theory test that shows they understand what is required to care for the animal of their choice. And no licence to anyone under the age of 16 (or 18). And pet shop may not sell to anyone who doesn't have a licence. And pet shop may not grant licences. And resources should be allocated to enforing the rule. Ie undercover inspectors should try to buy from sellers without a licence and if the seller - sells without sighting the licence - then they should be shut down and their animals removed and rehomed. And a different licence (like the difference between family car and truck licences) should be granted by passing theory and practical (breeding site inspection) test for those who want to breed pets. It does seem over the top if the kill rate for the ACT is correct. Sometimes I wish propective parents should be required to pass a test and get a licence too. Sigh. Imagine if they tried to implement the same rules to prevent over population and pressure on our welfare systems by humans this way? Or is that just wrong but it's ok to apply the rule to pets?