Mrs Rusty Bucket

I do feel a lot safer with a dog in the house. One that growls if anyone else is walking around. Ie my house guests cannot sneak anywhere, let alone a burglar / pervert. Personally, if police are advising dogs at home make you safer, it would be nice if councils provided more exercise areas for dogs instead of less. stalker? article http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8257058/night-stalker-terrorises-adelaide-women Just FYI - the article says inner city west eg Croydon etc, but something similar also happened recently in College Park ie inner East. Adelaide Hills Council, Stirling dog dispute. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/adelaide-hills-residents-barking-mad-over-leash-policy/story-e6frea6u-1226067469561 edit cut and paste wrong link duh

I make sure I stand with my dog in the rain until she's done her bit and then we go back inside. I have a word I use too so she knows what she needs to do to get back inside. We used to have an aussie terrier that we used to carry out into the middle of the lawn when it was raining, every few hours, and once her feet were wet, she'd cave and go outside. But if we neglected to carry her out she'd find some out of the way bit of warm dry carpet and go there.

If you're trying for a new behaviour, click/treat every different move they make once - and click more for the ones they make that are steps towards where you want to go. My dog tries to anticipate what I want. And offers up her entire repetoire before we get to trying new things. What I signal largely has nothing to do with what she offers.

There are two lab breeders in my dog club SAODC. And you can find both of them working at Glenside vets. One breeds chocolate, and the other has goldens and sometimes blacks. I don't know what they're like as far as beauty contests go, but they seem to do ok at obedience.

I've seen Boxers competing in agilty and obedience. I think they are willing enough and their main limitation is in the skill and enthusiasm of the owner. It might be more of a challenge than training a GSD to a high level of obedience comp but not impossible. Things that worked with your previous dogs, you may need to find new ways to achieve with a boxer. I see two boxers (besides the agility boxer) on a regular basis at my local park. They both seem quite smart. One has an owner that trains and the other doesn't and it shows. But they're both very nice dogs and will happily work for tail rubs and food.

Welsh spaniel. Similar colours and big brown eyes to the cav. The ones I've met have the most docile agreeable calm temperment. And they're a nice medium sized dog.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1194&bih=796&q=training+treats+site%3Adolforums.com.au&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= Site search for google: you type and hit search. If dog seems a little fussy, I skip a dog's meal. If you mean "easily distracted" - that is a bit different, but dogs are less distracted from food if they're hungrier. So I use any of these cut into small pieces. Soft treats are best for obedience training ie can be easily swallowed, less likely to cough them up and eat again. Especially dogs that neglect to chew. Promite on bread/toast, metwurst (german salami), fritz (german devon), roast chicken, roast beef, roast lamb, fresh fried liver. My dog was very enthusiastic about someone else's fresh fried kidney treats. She's less enthusiastic about cheese. left over garlic steak. Hard treats: kitten biscuits (I like optimum, forget why but ingredients might be better than whiskers), dinner kibble (from dinner ration), rawhide strips (athough this is at the end of training sequence ie lots of commands done together and a long break before the next run), roo strips, itty bitty brownie bickies (liver biscuits), dried fish...

He's adorable. Me and my evil hound play crate games everytime I try to eat promite on toast... I don't get much of it.

I can understand nothing electric being damaged by a lightening strike on a well insulated roof - unless the roof was wired into the electric system. I would not shower in a thunderstorm. I've got copper pipes on the outside of my house walls, and they're directly connected to the shower, and good conductors of electricity and water is a good enough conductor over short distances, so for me, the shower during an electrical storm would be very dangerous. I think I'd prefer a bucket of warm water and a face washer...

My dog is fine with Thunder and fireworks - unless she is in a tin shed right under the most enormous thunderclap ever and then she shreds everything in reach. And I don't blame her. I try to be calm and nonchalant and just sit around being boring - ie watching TV or reading a book with everything but one light unplugged - cos lightening strikes on nearby phone and electric supply wires can fritz out your electrical goods especially phones and computers but sometimes fridges, microwaves, tvs etc. Better to unplug. Anyway - I've heard Susan Garrett - on first sign of thunder - gets out bones for her dogs. She calls them "thunderbones". And there is also something available called a "Thundershirt" which provides a snug wrap jacket for scaredy dogs, and some find the even pressure calming. I wouldn't be rewarding scaredy cat behaviour with soothing pats and talking. I'd be ignoring that and rewarding almost anything else like response to basic obedience commands (ie distract the dog).

The Australian Road Rules specifically prohibit having a dog in your lap. They also prohibit attaching an animal to a vehicle including being held by a passenger or driver (people used to exercise horses and dogs this way). I think the Australian Road rules and the prevention of cruelty to animals require that dogs on backs of utes should be secured so they cannot fall out or have any part of their body suspended over the side, ie if they can stick their heads over the side, they can probably get their back end over the side and be hung by the neck. But as far as I can tell there is nothing to say a dog needs to be restrained inside the cab of the car. But police can do you for negligant driving ie not paying full attention to driving. They can do the same if you're eating, drinking, smoking or playing with an electronic device in the car. Ironically they don't book people for having distracting kids in the back of the car - though they must all be "restrained" ie in seatbelts etc. Sadly natural selection gets a few of these drivers who are distracted by their children. I know that NSW police are now expecting dogs to be strapped in, when inside the cab of the car, and may be fining people for "negligant driving". I would love to know what breach gets put on the actual ticket. Drivers in SA are being fined for having dog in their lap. Which is the law here, ie all states are required to enact the Australian Road rules to get Federal funding for road building and maintenance. Personally while I was a bit slack about strapping my dog in, especially if the speed limit was 60km/h or less on my planned trip, I've decided if I feel unsafe without a seatbelt, I should feel the same about my dog. And I shortened up the restraint strap too. This explains Negligant driving - ie it's entirely up to the policeman to decide. http://www.primelaw.com.au/Service-199-Negligent_Driving_Charges.aspx This one explains "inattentive driving" ie negligent driving is also known as "inattentive driving" http://www.dtei.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/Safer_behaviours/inattention So if the policeman thinks your dog can or has distracted you from your task of driving, they can give you a ticket.

So you're rewarding the dog by removing an adversive/unpleasant thing when it does what you want? I think Susan Garrett would say that she could find something the dog will work for ie a reward for every dog. She would pay attention to what distracts a dog or what it enjoys doing that and use that as a reward ie Premack - dog must do what trainer wants, so dog can do what dog wants (as long as it's safe). And I think a trainer that decides their dog finds nothing rewarding and therefore needs to force their dog to do what they want (compulsion), probably shouldn't be training dogs. What I like about Susan Garrett besides her excellent knowledge of learning science, is that she is not completely perfect when it comes to reading dogs and timing so her methods are easier for me to use. I don't have to depend on excellent timing and dog reading skills which Steve Courtney has. And while I might make mistakes and accidentally reward my dog for doing something I don't want - I don't kill her enthusiasm for working with me. Where more limiting tools are used like head halters and prong collars, I think the plan should be to get the collar off the dog as soon as possible. Ie you're using the tool to control the dog's environment and possible responses, so you make the right choice easy for the dog to make. I think the prong collar can be helpful but I'd try everything else I know first. I do wonder if you train a dog to come to you (and loose lead walk) to avoid the pressure of the prong collar, that you can't train a dog to do the same for the pleasure of some food or a game or getting to go somewhere fun. I admit I don't know what Susan Garrett would do with a dog that only wants to kill every human it encounters, I would ask for Steve Courtney's help with such a dog. So long as we were sure it wasn't a medical problem (ie brain damage) that was the cause of the problem. You'd have to wonder how the dog got to be like that in the first place.

MumtoShelley You're letting Rascal practice bad behaviour and learn how much fun it is. If he goes to her and you don't want him to - then go get him and put him on lead and keep him with you. Don't scold, just physically remove him. It's for his own health and safety. It's also part of NILIF. What Erny said. NILIF and TOT. Take control back. http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/Behavioural.html It may also help if you create a conditioned recall for him so he comes to you without thinking about it, ie at least three times a day - start for the first month or so when your aunt isn't around, call him and give him something yunmmy when he comes and loads of praise. When you start this training, don't call him with your special word when you think he won't come or he will learn to ignore it. If you can't keep him on lead with you, consider crate training him. If you can't afford a crate, a large cardboard box will probably do for a chi tho you'd need to figure a way to make a door you can shut for it. Same here, go get him if he tries to sleep with her, keep him on lead or put him in his crate/box or your room if you can't be with him.

Mumtoshelley I still think you should talk to your mum. Then at least it won't be a surprise to her when you do move out if she can't/won't stand up to her sister. I know how that feels. Especially when it's in her head that the whole situation is "temporary" ie easier to put up with the crap than risk a confrontation by saying what she wants/expects. I told my sister she can't come visit my house because she's too judgemental. She was surprised but last time she came she winced at every speck of dirt, especially in the kitchen and I thought I was being careful in there. Sigh. Her house isn't a whole lot different, she just doesn't see it.

mumtoshelley That must suck. I did find living with my parents really difficult for a long time because I had different ideas on how thing should be done. I felt like the personal house slave where as my siblings were never required to actually do their allocated daily house chores. But it was their rules or move out. So as soon as I financially could - I moved out. I only came back briefly once because I moved back from interstate and that's how long it took me to find another place to live. You should have the discussion with your mum, before you explode. Explain what your aunt is doing is unhealthy for your dog and causing you a great deal of stress and worry. And the only way out you can see at the moment is to move out. And let her come up with better ideas. It would be hard for her to turf her own sister out, but that may be what Auntie needs to get her act together. Ie she's bludging because she can. But I'd be planning on moving out, saving bond or house deposit or whatever your plan is. It can take a while to find the right place so it wouldn't hurt to start looking now.

Petsitters Was the rotti being walked in a rear attach harness with the attach point betewen his shoulders? Or a front attach harness, with the attach point at the chest. I recommended a front attach harness to one rotti owner who went from not being able to walk her dog at all, to being able to walk the dog and roll a cigarette at the same time - not that I recommend that but it was a huge improvement. I agree with Aidan2 about the training clubs in Adelaide. The clubs are still very old school for the most part, with choke collars and adversives galore. Some won't allow treats, some won't allow front attach (training) harnesses. I guess it depends how competition focussed they are. I've had arguments with some of the instructors about corrections. I am not going to put a choke collar on my dog and reef her if she doesn't heel nicely. And I am not going to scold her if she doesn't come when I call her. Sheesh. And I am going to treat her for being in the "re-inforcement zone" (RZ) next to my leg ie "doing nothing" according to one of our leading instructors. I just have this slight problem that my dog is insisting RZ be my right leg because my right hand is better at dispensing treats than my left but we're working on it (she's not supposed to swap sides without the right command). I'm not planning on doing obedience comps any time soon ever, so I'm not that bothered by it. And I guess that reflects in our progress. We do have delta instructors and classes but they are very expensive compared to the council classes. I think they do no correcting but I'm not sure. I know they are anti the use of water pistol to stop a dog barking even if the dog loves the water pistol water jet and it's used as a distraction. I am impressed with the results Susan Garrett gets - her main focus is in agility but she covers other fields as well. She says "no verbal or physical corrections". She very rarely uses a non-reward marker ie telling the dog that it's not going to get a treat for the behaviour it's trying now. Mostly it's about choices for the dog and making the right choice as easy as possible for the dog to get right, until the dog has an understanding of what the task is, and then adding distractions very slowly - and rewarding when the dog gets it right and waiting for it to try again when it doesn't. She's not permissive in the way she trains either. She prevents the dog from ever learning how much fun it is to chase things it should not. And she decides when training starts and stops, ie she doesn't let the dog quit on her. But she also keeps training very short, and it's ok for the dog to finish on a mistake (learned from Bob Bailey). I think there is a big difference between doing something because you have pleasant associations with the task, and doing something because you are scared of what will happen if you don't. As soon as the coercion is removed, the choice to do that task goes too. The Paul Hutton thing, where you look at what he does, it does seem based on that whacko stuff that he's been rubbishing, except he may use more than just one quadrant of operant conditioning. About using compulsion for obedience training. I know one person who did this, video'd it, won a lot of competitions, but looks back at the dog in the video now and sees that it was miserable. Tail was down, head was down. Not enjoying the process at all. The dogs that look thrilled to be there, besotted with their handler, and perform all their tasks precicely and with speed, get better marks than the dogs that look sad and unhappy and uncertain and slow.

One of my friends had a long backed dog that was used to jumping on and off the couch, and then one day the back end seized up like she was paralyzed. Couldn't use the back legs at all. A lot of money was spent trying to find the spinal injury like a slipped disc but nothing was found. And eventually she came good after a lot of forced rest and recuperation. Ie everythings working normally (for her) now. So your dog may have pulled a muscle or something extreme to give her back problems, or she may have a "slipped disc" putting pressure on the spinal cord. It may go away by itself or it may need surgery. However the surgery should only be done if something physical and obvious to be corrrected is found. ie xrays and stuff. I'd be trying everything else that does not require dog getting anaesthetic or surgery first.

If you feed fish oil, you need to also feed extra vitamin E - because the fish oil supplements can deplete it. Some fish oil supplements include Vitamin E to avoid this problem.

Joek reward based training, which is sometimes known as positive training - actually includes the non-reward (negative) ie no treat for not the right behaviour, and is not meant to be permissive anything goes - because we all know that just leads to the dog making all the decisions, which isn't in dog's or owner's best interests. Making it easy for the dog to understand what you do want it to do, and then gradually building up the distractions and number of new environments that you ask the dog to do what you want - can have better longer lasting results than telling it what you don't want it to do.

Erny I don't see it as picking on me. Clarifying things maybe. The technical terms that go with operant and classical conditioning - I know what to do but get confused trying to explain it. positives and negatives meaning addition and subtraction not good and bad. sigh. Nekhbet agree - all the stuff that works on other dogs I've trained before this one - don't work on her. So I've had to learn to pay attention to what interests her, and when and use that as best I can. And I've had to learn more about learning science, conditioning and dog training than ever before. I was recently given the books my father had about dog training, and the one dated 1972 advocates reward based methods, and I quote "it is possible to teach a dog through fear but the results are far from satisfactory" and yet I still see people trying this. Even at my dog club. Sigh.

Adain2 explained that much better than me. Some things the dog does are fun and rewarding for the dog but may not be what the owner wants. It helps if the dog does not get to practice these things or the dog will try to do them more and more often. Or if the owner can use the activity the dog enjoys as a reward - where it is safe to do so. Eg the dog loves going in the water for a swim - only let the dog go when it has done as you asked. The dog chases cars - you put it on lead and restrict opportunity and reward a safer behaviour - so the dog does not learn to love chasing cars and ignoring the owner.

I have tried an ecollar on me. I get stung worse by the static electricity zap I get when I earth my car getting in or out. Blech. I didn't mean a lightening bolt zap power. My point was - you have to train the dog how to respond to the collar first, or it won't understand that it's meant to stop what it was doing and come back. punishing the dog requires that the dog knows what it was supposed to be doing when it chose to do something else, so it knows what it needs to do to stop/avoid the punishment. And it requires excellent timing from the trainer - which a lot of us amateurs don't have. What I see a lot, is things like a dog being scolded (or zapped) for not coming back, and then scolded or actually beaten or alpha rolled when it finally does come back. That does make me cringe and want to yell at the owner (like another wrong will fix it), or go to my room and cry for a week. My dog is extremely soft/sensitive when it comes to being punished - so i don't bother any more. It almost always results in undesirable behaviours. The closest I get is "no treat for no desired behaviour", or crate when I need to get things done and she's trying to "help". I sometimes do something called "resetting the dog" ie if she breaks a stay, I turn her in a circle (usually by the collar) and position again and ask for the stay again. Another example of how punishment doesn't work - it doesn't let the dog know what it is supposed to be doing. Human example. I was playing right half in hockey. Coach was yelling at me not to stand where I was, but he never told me where I should be. So everywhere I went was wrong, and eventually I turned and abused him for being an idiot, much to the entertainment of his ex-wife and her friends on the opposing team. As for the cat chasing thing - no, a correction is not required. What is required is that the dog has no opportunity to chase a cat ie stays on lead, until it can show that it will happily ignore the cat reliably. On our walk this evening, we passed a cat that my dog would normally try to have a go at, I even pointed it out to her, and she still ignored it. Things were a little different when we got home and there was a cat in our yard. But she's always had permission and encouragement to chase cats out of the yard. It is possible to train a dog not to chase or track possums or cats, by restricting its opportunity to do so, and rewarding appropriate behaviour like focus on you and not the possum. My dog used to chase magpies and other dogs at club, she doesn't do that any more either. I did not do more than restrict her opportunity and reward her well for staying when I asked her to. We're still working on the possum problem but have had success recently (leaving the possums alone).

I thought pillaring was what Tina Fey did to Sarah Palin? Oh wait, that was pilloring. so confusing.

I'd really like to know more about Leelaa17's dog. If Huski can get her beagle to work in drive - or just work for her, then it should be relatively straight forward with a GSD by comparison - even one that is not easily excited by anything. I meet a very excitable bedlington terrier tearaway puppy at my fave afternoon oval at the moment. I've never seen one so into zoomies. Owner says she is having trouble getting it to eat, or work for her (recall and sit and stay - non existant). But it will happily take treats from anybody - including her - at the park. So there's two things we get to fix by feeding the dog its dinner bit by bit at the park! I am finding that working "the reinforcment zone" with my dog, has her stuck to my leg with great enthusiasm. It takes a mighty distraction to peel her away. But I try to give her permission before she gets distracted eg "go play", "go say hello" so she is rewarded by her distraction, eg greeting friends.

Maybe we should start another thread for allergies to important nutrients. Cretinism - common in Nepal is caused by iodine deficiency - so the body needs it. Iodized salt is a good way of getting it. Not sure how the allergic people go with that tho. It's a bit like fluoride, and folate - some people are allergic to those, and I've even heard of people being allergic to water - on their skin. How they get their fluids I don't know.