Mrs Rusty Bucket

i think I could be a lot better about consistent criteria when it comes to heeling... Frosty head butts my hand from a beautiful tight heel - on the RHS if she wants some treats - not so sure about the training but she's willing to work. If that doesn't work - she tries the LHS... and if I'm a bit slow to reward at the LHS she zips back around to the RHS. Nicking around behind me is really bad in Agility runs. Sigh. But we're getting good perch work inside with high value rewards. And I'm getting better weave poles outside with better persistance - this is where the frustration shows up the most with her. When I ask for the right entry from a less than obvious spot - like the wrong side of the poles. I guess it's like teaching a child that even though a d and a p are the same - the orientation and context matter. Pretty difficult concept. Especially given - she doesn't care about left and right when it comes to heeling - the best place for her to be as far as she's concerned is closest to the treat bag (eg RHS). So that's a rambly way of saying that things started improving for me when I started "rewarding every different behaviour till we were on the path to what I wanted", and then when I got the "squeally party" bit happening * the first time she gets it right * instead of asking to run the test again (like a good computer programmer).

Teaching a dog to be persistant in training: Note: this post could be more eloquent but then I might never share the good stuff. To paraphrase someone else - "I'd write a short post but I don't have time". This is based on my interpretation of a Susan Garrett (SG) presentation. And her presentation was based on a book or thesis she read by Abram Amsel called "Frustration theory: an analysis of dispositional learning and memory" http://books.google.com.au/books?id=-5YpdzQW6WgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Abram+Amsel&hl=en&ei=JS2cTv3DKsbdiAK94LyyDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false (It is a very esoteric paper. Chapter 3 seems to contain most of the "good stuff"). So how to train your dog to be more persistant: SG suggests... Control your training environment. Only introduce small amounts of frustration ie only make the task a little bit harder than it was before. Frustration Theory: When the dog doesn't get their reward - pay attention to how they react... Most dogs (and animals and people) will default to one of these four (that's from the book) Invigoration - Excited - hyper - zoomies Suppression - Shut down, frozen, gone sniffing or scratching Regression - repetitively tries what worked last time (don't reward this if you want something different - reward something different) Persistance - keeps trying new things to get the reward I think that's the four things SG mentioned. You can condition the dog to default more often to persistance which is desireable in training. When the dog gets something right after a period of frustration. 1. do not ask them to do it again straight away (or even in this training session). 2. give your dog his/her favourite bestest highest value reward and have a bit squeally joyful party with your dog. And a balance break (eg training break where you play tug or run round with your dog). to develop persistance - this isn't part of the book - well it might be but I haven't read the all of book and had a hard time figuring out what he meant from what he wrote... Do a lot of basic trick training with your dog so it is used to trying again if it doesn't get a reward. When you're starting out, reward every different behaviour, until you get ones that can lead to what you want and then only reward those and then only reward each step in the right direction. And do not ask too much of your dog at once (lumping). And try to get your training mechanics right. Ie good timing, clear criteria, and good preparation - everything you need is ready to hand before you start. And pick something it is possible and plausible for your dog to get right. This info requested by a post in this thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/228291-love-those-training-epiphanies/

i got something from the equestrian supplies that has a lot of rosemary oil in it and some other stuff. No idea if it works on flies or not. If I want flies off me - I still use aeroguard.

I had the choice of two remaining sisters from a litter of six. One only wanted to go back to her pen and wouldnt' talk to me at all. The other liked talking to me, liked checking everything out, would chase toys but not fetch them (nothing has changed much) etc. This one was the one I chose. She is the biggest grovel dog I have ever met. But she will make all the decisions in your home if you let her. A couple of my friends who dog sat for me briefly - found this out the hard way. She even convinced one - she gets to sleep on the human's bed. Dogs can lie.

Who is farmer dave and why would anyone pay any attention to anything he has to say? I don't get it.

Might start a new thread for that one... when I find the right bit of SG presentation. PS here it tis - eventually. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/228391-frustration-theory/

I think there are about 43 up. Thanks Robbie01 PS is there one of Frosty when she gets the the end and works out I didn't come with her?

sandgrubber I guess it depends on how ethical gets defined. It can be very subjective. Perfectly honorable people used to think it was fine to dissect animals while still alive. Some people at the time where horrified but by the standards of the day it was fine with most people - they thought humans were the only creatures with feelings. More recently - you can no longer use marshmellows or sweets as rewards or temptations in studies on child (and adult) psychology. Once was ethical - now is not. At one time - it was considered a good thing to take new born babies away from single mothers and give them to families (with a male and female parent). Now - not considered so good. So you can't even tell by a person's motivation whether it's an ethical thing. And I agree - sometimes people need to swim against the majority tide to make progress. And sometimes it's hard to tell those good guys from the bad guys also swimming against the tide but with different motives.

I think managing doggy frustration is helping my training technique and my dog's ability to learn. So using ideas passed on by Susan Garrett, teaching my dog to be persistant when she's frustrated, and managing her frustration so she doesn't give up and shut down or bark her head off, is giving us incremental training improvements where before we were just stuck. General co-ordination and improved precision of reward delivery is helping too. Remembering to say "yes", having the treat or tug ready helps too.

Is someone who refuses to follow the majority accepted code of ethics - ethical? Erm - no. Are they doing the right thing? Not enough information. I think certain breeds have suffered from the way that their breed standard has been implemented and judged at shows. And I think if some breeders decide to go outside the breed standards to improve the health of their breed ie fix breathing problems or birthing problems or back problems or brain problems etc, that ought to be a good thing. If they're breeding and not considering the best health interests of their dogs, that would be a bad thing but they may still fit the ANKC standards. I do think the ANKC could do more to encourage their registered breeders to comply with their rules.

I hope they keep the cage clean. One pub-restaurant I used to go to has a large bird avairy in the middle of it. The sides around where the diners sit are glass so no birdy stuff can get where you're eating, but the cage itself is filthy - the windows are covered in gunk, and it's full of bird crap like they never clean it and I can't dine there any more.

I chose a cattle dog cross with an extremely friendly temperment - didn't occur to me at the time, that Victoria would ban them. I don't feel like it's my fault - I've worked hard with her to make sure she doesn't bite anything she's not supposed to (apart from the occasional ugg boot). She hasn't killed any children. In fact children love her to bits and she never complains.

Yeah, I was a bit sad that Frosty didn't quite make the full 300m run. She tried very hard and was keen to go again after everyone had a turn. But I didn't think sending her the entire distance again would be a good idea. Ie the greyhound trainers only did one 300m run per dog. There is probably a good reason for that. It was a hard temptation to resist - going again.

Frosty went screaming flat out up for the 150m run, hit the sand in a huge spray, and then turned around and bolted back 150m + 20m and then proceeded to indulge in a game of chase-me. She was much easier to catch at the end of the 250m+250m runs. And she did a lot of barking at everything that looked vaguely like a running critter.

PS debrief after. We need to give Trevor 7 days notice - using the phone number on the greyhound lure coursing website and then he can post notice to close the track for our time. And then a follow up call maybe the day before and it would be cancelled if the forecast or temp is 30'C or over because that's too hot for the dogs. http://www.sacoursing.com/index.htm Next possible date suggested was the Sunday after the Staffy meet on 30th ie Sunday November 6th from about 9am to 10:30am (if I remember right).

Frosty loved it. She wanted that lure so bad. And the lure train and the lure train squirrel... But I need to do some serious fitness work... ie she can run 150 up and 150 back flat out and then 250m up but not quite 300m and jog back. I thought she might be unwilling to run away from me - but that wasn't a concern and it didn't matter we'd done exactly zero lure chase trainig - tho the lure did bear a strong resemblence to a bungy tug I use. First thing she did when we got home was a high speed cat patrol of the back yard - so everything is working fine. Thanks for the pix, InSha-llah. Thanks for organising, Jacqui.

jacqui835 Sorry to hear your sad news. Hope someone good is looking after your dobe Sammy. I've written down the phone numbers. Will call when I get to Gepps Cross. Seems a bit mean to call as I leave from down south.

I used to share a feed shed with a very long brown snake. We knew where its hole was but the snake catcher said we were better off "keeping it". It lived under a couple of pallets so the dogs couldn't get to it and it never tried to get them. I used to make a lot of noise on approach to the feed shed and wear knee high gum boots when I was in there just in case. It didn't make a huge dent in the mouse population, I think it was extremely well fed. I didn't see any other snakes around while it was there. But I'm fairly crap at spotting them unless they're directly across my path on a smooth flat surface where they stick out. We didn't lose any pets to snakes either. PS I think Shannon Lush might be wrong about snake poo keeping mice away given they lived in the same shed.

I just have to remember which dogs are friendly. Ie I will be the one with a spotty dog that is not a dalmation saying "is your dog friendly" because mine wants to say hello to everybody, because she takes friendly to grovelly extremes.

bump 8am start tomorrow left/west off pt wakefield road park rd before tozer which I guess means a 6am wake up for me. If I'm not there, I slept in.

If they're microchipped, remember to update the address on the UK database and get them registered with an Australian one. I was going to get my dog registered with the one that my vet uses in addition to the one the AWL uses - but the vet one requires a vet visit to verify the microchip number and I decided to do it after I'd left the vet D'OH. So when you visit the vet - organise to get the microchips read (or implanted) and put on the Australian database(s). So maybe sydney siders could plug their favourite vets here too for you. And there is council rego - I think NSW has life time rego, once your dogs are registered there - as long as they stay in NSW, you don't need to pay again, tho it helps if you keep them up to date with your contact details. About the windscreen - most car insurance companies with comprehensive - will cover one "free" windscreen or window a year, so if it's not a rental car - check your insurance policy. And it also pays to shop around. They charge very varied amounts for the same job.

Pretty sure my dog would eat that. Looks like another couple of good candidates for Gruen's steak knives.

Clubsprint Under the current Victorian BSL both your pound rescues could be confiscated by any Victorian "authorised person" ie council ranger or police officer. You can't prove the parentage of either of these dogs - you don't have ANKC papers and a vet would not be able to write a letter saying that either dog was "a particular breed" because they're cross breeds. Superficially the ridgeback cross would look enough like a bull breed to get you into trouble and once the dog was impounded - there is no way to get it back - legally because you have no papers for it. That's how the law is written. Basically makes all cross breeds and unpapered dogs illegal. Based on the behaviour of my dog, there is no terrier in her, only herding dogs. She refuses to kill anything but she can still be confiscated if I take her to Victoria. There is no exception for dogs belonging to tourists or grey nomads - in fact since they may not even be registered in Victoria even pedigree papers won't save them once the council ranger gets them.

where is it? and is she mostly rewards based training? or does she use other techniques too?

If I see a couple out and there is a husky or a staffie and an SWF, I do tend to assume the SWF belongs to the girl. And I'm usually right. I once met a woman walking a very badly behaved staffie, and since it was her husband's dog and he'd recently split from her, and dumped the dog on her, the first thing she was going to do was have that dog's nuts off. Apparently it couldn't be done while hubby was still at home - because the dogs' balls and his were psychically linked. Neither the woman nor the dog deserved that man. If there are two dogs and two people male and female and it's a rotti and a staffie - I assume the rotti belongs to the girl. Don't know why. Often - the dogs give it away whose is which dog. The ones that really make me laugh is when one partner's dog has ditched them for the other partner. So there are two people, two dogs, but as far as the dogs are concerned, only one boss.