happypaws84

My 5 month old kelpie pup gets 30 mins walking morning and night, taking a different route in the morning to the one at night so he doesn't get bored. I do about 6 or 8 training sessions a day with him. He has some chews around and a comfort teddy when he's on his own but otherwise he prefers my company. I don't take him for runs and wont be until he's 12 months old at least, same with the cycling IMO. If you raise her to be calm you will have a calm dog. If you hype her up she will be easily excitable. What you do with her now will determine what kind of adult she will grow into. The more you teach her now the easier she will be to teach when she is older.

I should have listened to Steph.... Oh well, I know better now.

What an absolutely stunning Kelpie!

I'm not forcing my methods on to others, I am simply having a discussion on the pros/cons of the methods. I already acknowledged there are instances where head collars can work well for the right dog. Well GoldenGirl has already posted saying that's not how she felt my posts came across, perhaps you're still upset about the thread in the puppy forum when I disagreed with the method you suggested? I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty at all. We are simply having a discussion about training methods. Are you serious? Posting just to tell others that they are disgusting and forcing their opinions on to others is posting purely to have a stir and cause trouble - you aren't contributing to the topic of the thread by telling people not to share their opinion. For someone who doesn't "waste their valuable time on anonymous faces hiding behind a computer screen" it is sure coming across like I've upset or offended you on a personal level - now we're unfriendly and cliquey? Why are you so upset and offended if we're not worth wasting time on? BTW - I don't know how we are being cliquey, Longcoat is a new poster here too and I have no idea who they are! And BTW - I've met at least 100 DOLers in real life, and I am sure they would be more than happy to tell you I am far from someone who "hides" behind my computer screen My gosh you have a high opinion of yourself. You disagreed with me once, no worries. I saw your point (when it was written by someone else) and haven't posted there again since... I do find it amusing that you think so highly of yourself that you believe I would hold a grudge because a. you didn't understand what I was conveying in my post and b. that I would believe you to be worth holding a grudge against. Sorry missy, no-one is worth that amount of effort, I'd rather put the time into something useful, like my puppy or my work. Oh, and BTW, I was just doing the exact same thing you are doing when you recommend the TOT to every person with issues with their dogs... It may not seem that way to you, but it is the exact same thing. I didn't say that people on here were disgusting, I stated that forcing your opinions, methods and ideals on someone else is disgusting. I don't know you from a bar of soap, so it would be just a bit of a stretch for me to say that you are disgusting would it not?? I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't contribute to the thread, merely that the way you were doing so came across to me as forceful and almost as a guilt trip. Evidently I am the only one who felt this way, and I don't have a problem with that. I did also state that I agreed with your stance in this instance too, and I did have more to say unfortunately I ran out of time. The general feel I get from this forum is that it is very elitist, there are very clear cliques, there are clear 'leaders' and 'followers' and very clearly the ones who post for no reason than to try to get themselves in the good books of the leaders. This is an opinion gathered from reading through many, many threads. If you'll take note of the fact that I joined in October 2009 and my first post wasn't until last week or the week before (can't remember which), it is an opinion that has taken a lot of time to come to. There is a lot that I could get from this forum, but when every second thread seems to dissolve into a competition for who is 'right' or 'wrong' when really there is only a differing of opinion it's very disheartening to say the least. Evidently you feel that my opinion is wrong. Oh and it means diddly squat to me how many people you've met from this forum, I doubt I'd ever meet you, therefore you are an anonymous face behind a username on a forum displayed on a screen... You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. OP I don't think it's right that people were using their dogs' noses to carry their thongs, but if the dogs weren't stressed or worried about it, I wouldn't be either. Fair enough if the dogs were in distress, but if they were happily off on a beach adventure with their owners, they're having fun and relaxed about it I don't see that we have any right to judge. Oh, and I don't agree with any form of animal abuse, I just don't think that's what was happening in this instance.

... Very cute response... My bit to add to the thread was to remind you that while your methods work for you, forcing your methods onto others won't work for them. I agree that this is a discussion forum, but nothing can be discussed if you cannot respect that there are methods other than the ones you know and the ones that work for you that WILL work for others and they WILL be just as successful with their dogs. It didn't seem like a discussion, in fact it seemed you were picking to pieces other peoples posts and trying to make them feel guilty for using the equipment that works for them. That IMO is disgusting and I'm trying to work out what it is that makes you feel you have the right to do that... I'm still trying to work out why I would be posting for just a stir? That would be a waste of my very valuable time, and it is definitely not worth wasting that time on anonymous faces hiding behind a computer screen... Just my honest opinion. Oh, and that is the way it looks to a new member. This doesn't seem like all that friendly a place, or at the very least it is very cliquey...

Huski, I realise you're just getting your opinion across, but clearly the people using the GL's have found a way where they are happy, their dogs are happy and they are all safe. IMO Fair enough you have your opinion on what works for YOU with YOUR dog. Shelle and GoldieGirl have what works for THEM and THEIR dogs. While I happen to have the same opinion as you, forcing your opinion on someone is never going to get you anywhere. ETA: I feel the same about Longcoat too atm. I agree but don't think being forceful is helping the situation.

My Kelpie is like this too!

When my Kelpie arrived at 9 weeks old I was taking him out 3 times a night, 4 if we were having an early night. I set myself alarms and took him outside, no fuss, walked him around, ignored the play, praised the heck out of him for going to the toilet then it was back to the crate. The 2nd week he was here it went down to 2-3 times a night, then the third was 1-2 and at 14 weeks he was holding through the night. Worked brilliantly for us, plus he never had the opportunity to go in the house as he was taken outdoors many times through the day too. I can't recommend crate training enough. You're guaranteed to have a safe place for your puppy at night and during the day if you have to contain them. Easier at the vets, groomers etc too.

Definitely make sure you praise him EVERY time he goes for a wee outside, then before you come back inside go back to being boring and just wander around a little and he should do a poop, praise him again then go indoors

Also when you go out, if Oscar only does a widdle and you know he needs to poop too praise him for the widdle, then go back to being boring, standing there and not paying attention. They are easily distracted and he may forget he needs to poop - then when he comes indoors again he'll remember and go in the first place he can find!

Of course, there's always the possiblity that removing the food when puppy growls will extinguish growling and escalate the pup to biting. Its most unwise to ignore warnings from a dog.. and downright dangerous to provoke a potentially aggressive response. Resource guarding (of any resource) is a form of aggression. Dealing with aggression is not something you do on advice from folk who've never seen the behaviour in your dog and have no qualifications in dealing with it. If you're that concerned about the growling, engage the services of a decent behaviourist. In the meantime, feed your dog in a crate. Those who've not had to deal with a resource guarder should count their blessings and put it down to luck. There's evidence that this is hardwired behaviour and it can be damn difficult to manage. Quite a few behaviorists believe that management is all you CAN do and that extinguishing it is extremely difficult. Well, at least I agree with one sentence. Perhaps the OP in question cannot afford the time or expense of going to a behaviourist, they may not have a crate either... Guess it serves me right for answering the OP's question with my experience. It was only what a highly recommended behaviourist told me to do, so I guess that counts for nothing. Next time I'll remember to check with those who have a far higher post count before I post For the OP: I do recommend that you speak to a behaviourist, and I wouldn't be surprised if you are told to do the same as I am. From your original post you are in an identical situation to the one that I was in not one month ago with my boy. Good luck and I hope that using both methods works well for you, I also hope that you aren't scared off by people exaggerating the situation when they aren't in the same situation themselves.

I'm glad you found something that worked for you, but I personally would not use a method that involves taking the food away from a resource guarder as a way of teaching them not to guard. Again, leaving your hand on his food or on his bowl can make a resource guarder feel more threatened by you. It might work for some but it's a method I would personally not use. Do it to the wrong dog and you could get bitten. I think you did misunderstand, and I also think that my first post was not as clear as it should have been. Neither was my second post. I will write it step by step here for you - if you don't like this method then that's fine, but allow the OP to make up their own mind as what works for you may not work for another person. Please also keep in mind that we are talking about a 5month old puppy, not an adult dog... Step by step: 1. You have the chicken wing. Sit on the ground and allow the puppy to chew on the chicken. Do not let puppy take the food away from you, just keep hold of the chicken wing. Again DO NOT LET GO of the wing. 2. If the dog growls at you while this is happening, lift your hand, get up and walk away for 5 minutes. 3. Come back at the end of 5 minutes and allow the dog to chew on the food again. If the same thing happens repeat step two. Keep repeating this until the puppy learns that growling means he/she does not get what he/she wants. 4. When puppy has finished chewing without growling, praise puppy and have a little game (not too much running around though as he/she might throw up!). I also tossed warmed chicken into my puppies bowl if I was approaching while he was eating - after doing the above with his dinner (I held the side of the bowl and he ate from it with my hand still on the bowl. If he growled at me the bowl was removed). He learnt that if I'm walking up to his bowl he'll get something awesome so he takes a step back and sits, looking at me for a treat. He also does this with bones, dead animals (next door neighbours cat brings me presents...) and anything else he has in his mouth at the time which works perfectly for me. He sees whatever I may have as better than anything he has. I hope this clears things up.

Perhaps I should be more specific? I sit on the ground, (upright, not laying down) my hand extended out beside me. Chicken wing/bone/whatever held in that hand. I do not stare at the dog, I do not take the food away at all, I just hold the food while the dog chews on it. It teaches the dog that you are not in fact a threat and also teaches the dog that you holding onto it's food means nothing to whether or not he/she gets the food. I'm not sure what your experience with canines is at all, and I'm sure your methods work brilliantly for your dogs. I was in an identical situation to the OP, called in a behaviourist and this was the suggestion. Now my kelpie doesn't run away when I approach him when he has bones or anything like that, nor does he growl or resource guard. Please take note of the fact that I did not ONCE suggest the OP give the dog food and take it away.

When you give him food you hold one end while he chews on it. If he growls at you take the food away. When you feed him his dinner either hold the bowl and hand feed him (I don't know what you feed so this may be too messy for you) or just keep your hand on the bowl. Again if he growls at you take the food away for half an hour. My kelpie started the same behaviour with me and this worked for him.