RallyValley

Happy Birthday Chloe!

I just took Toby down to my local shops and did some obedience practice! He was a bit overwhelmed with the cars going past on the road and the people coming and going near the shop entrance so I dumbed things down but I was pretty happy with how he went! I have found that because Toby isn't as food motivated as most but loves chase and running games if he gets a bit distracted suddenly breaking into a run (he was on leash of course!) and redirecting him into a bit of a chase game ending with a front got his attention back!

Agree! They were the best The Goldens weaving!

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds :D Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds. Hmmm I will try to explain what I meant From what I have heard from field triallers and read ability is trained, instinct is what the dog was born with and by socialization I meant what the dog learns by traning out in the field with a more mature bracemate, i.e imitating them. I hope that makes sense I am totally probably wrong but that was the impession I got. I didn't mean socialization as in meeting a quota of people and dogs ect. For retrieving breeds, what we call field trials, the US call upland tests. US field trials, we call retrieving trials. America also have AKC hunt tests and NAHRA. I was reading the ABC hunt test rules and thier field trial rules. I am probably wrong FHRP, I know very very little about it all. :D Will be very interested to hear about Polo's forays in the field :D

How exiting CareyJ!! Yes details and pictures are a must in the WA thread

Looked great from where I was standing Thanks guys! I think I woke up with a smile on my face because I was still so pleased how Toby went. And I was only able to have him like that because of what I learned from watching and listening to expirenced people like both of you! Fingers crossed it wasn't a one off and we have moments just as nice next week.

when she gets over the line - there will definitely be cake When do you think the show may be? :D I hope I won't be working! I will be seeing you tonight anyway at training! Dad just took Toby out for a game of fetch though so he will probably still be panting when I get down there.

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds. Hmmm I will try to explain what I meant From what I have heard from field triallers and read ability is trained, instinct is what the dog was born with and by socialization I meant what the dog learns by traning out in the field with a more mature bracemate, i.e imitating them. I hope that makes sense I am totally probably wrong but that was the impession I got. I didn't mean socialization as in meeting a quota of people and dogs ect.

In other news Cider only has one show left to go! ! I would say that's deserving of cake Ptolomy?

A day is more then long enough for Mason to be bullied. You did the right thing Mas and I am sure the breeder will find another home that's a better fit. Well I have to agree to disagree from my oewn experience it took longer but everyone has there own threshold ( I am known as a tough old cow!!) and proud of that but then again with my breed one must be ! lol I'm just like you Wazzat but I do understand that not everyone is the same. It comes down to a lot of things, personality of people and dogs as well as tolerance levels. We all live and learn! Maybe my expirences the last 12 months have changed me I don't think I would allow a submissive non-confrontational dog to be bullied by a dog I had on trial so I am probably softer then you two. If the dog is pinning the other dog to the ground and snapping at it day one and affecting his life to the point of misery and physical stress unless there was some reason I could not simply give the dog back there is no way I would persevere. Especially if it was causing confrontation within my family. My dog was bullied and it took a behaviourist and blood drawn (both human and canine) for me to realise enough is enough (and that WAS with behaviourist intervention and consultation with the breeder) although it broke my heart I rehomed him and now everyone both canine in human is in much better enviroments and enjoying life more.

I'm reading US rules but I also assumed thats what it meant. Field trialling is very interesting, very much a test of a dogs ability and instinct as well as it's socialization. I am hoping to start my next pup working with some experienced field dogs from a young age.

For thise field triallers, what does it mean by "failure to honor when it sees it's bracemate point mean" I have an assumption but I want to make sure. I also found a group in WA that trains for field trials so I will be tagging along when they go out!

A day is more then long enough for Mason to be bullied. You did the right thing Mas and I am sure the breeder will find another home that's a better fit.

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I had a session this evening where I kept the ball in the back of my pants and rewarded by throwing behind, to the side, bouncing up ect and it felt a little better, no idea how it looked though! Hopefully since I have just started doing heelwork I can nip this in the bud. I also should film a session using food, his enthusiasm is less then half.

Yip - especially when people say "skin kids" too. It makes my skin crawl. I calll myself mama in the privacy of my own home ("Mama's Home!", "Your mama wuvs you berry much") and I call them "my boy" and "my girl". Some people in my family say they're my kids, but I always say they are part of my family, but they aren't my kids. I hate 'skin kids' and 'fur kids' too... although I will call dogs 'kiddy' when I am revving them up and getting them excited in the show ring, although they aren't my dogs (But hey baby goats are called kids). I live with my parents so 'mum' and 'dad' are my parents I don't really like when people refer to dogs as babies or fur babies or fur kids. I just use 'the pups' or 'my dogs'.

I did notice that. I wouldn't write a dog off as a retriever if it didn't instantly race after a toy and bring it all the way back to me. There's a lot you can teach, is all. But I don't have any experience with retrievers. I have one dog that started out a natural retriever and doesn't really do it much anymore and one that isn't a natural retriever but I'm teaching him to retrieve. Mostly I think I just never played fetch with my dogs when they were young so they don't do it much. You never know what kind of untapped potential could be under the surface ready to burst out with a little coaxing. Hmm for a retriever doing retrieveing trials it's akin to a herding dog doing sheepdog trials, the dog has to have the instinct and enjoy/love it or there is no way the dog will run out 300m through a river, up a steep hill into long grass and back just to get a bird to bring back to you (and that's at a novice level ) I understand what you mean though, plently of dogs who have no retrieveing inclination naturally learn how to play fetch or retrieve a dumbell.

If you can't find her online PM me, I have her details (somewhere! )

It sounds to me more like you need a behaviourist then a training class, look up Kathy Kopelis Mcleod or Danielle from K9 Positive Works. Which area are you in?

I finally roped someone into videoing Toby heeling: Not the neatest work (at all ) but absolutely chuffed with his enthusiasm. If anyone has any feedback it would be appreciated.

The OP is looking at doing retrieveing trials with the dog - so I would say that some inclination to retrieve is quite important.

Do you mean this? Irish Setter Judge(s): MR B M MARSHALL (D) - MRS M BOTT (B) BEST OF BREED SH CH/IR SH CH NORTHAMBER JUST CAUSE FOR GLENAVNA JW Dog Owner: MRS C MCLARNON BEST PUPPY HENALEAS UPTOWN FLIRT AT BRAMSTORM Dog Owner: MRS J, MR P & MRS S HUMPHREYS & OLIVER DOG CHALLENGE CERTIFICATE SH CH/IR SH CH NORTHAMBER JUST CAUSE FOR GLENAVNA JW Dog Owner: MRS C MCLARNON BITCH CHALLENGE CERTIFICATE SH CH OUTFOXED BY KERRYFAIR JW Bitch Owner: MRS S & MISS K SCHORLEY-NEWTON & CHORLEY RESERVE DOG CHALLENGE CERTIFICATE SH CH EMBER GENE SIMMONS SINGS QUENSHA (IMP) Dog Owner: MR R P & MRS A H BOTT & MORGAN RESERVE BITCH CHALLENGE CERTIFICATE SH CH BRAIDMOUNT GEISHA GIRL Bitch Owner: MS M & MR W HUNTER & BROWN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Classes Veteran - Dog Entries: 15 Abs: 6 1st SH CH EMBER GENE SIMMONS SINGS QUENSHA (IMP) (MR R P & MRS A H BOTT & MORGAN) 2nd SH CH LOCHFRAE RALPH LAUREN JW SHCM (MRS M B DAVIE) 3rd BARLEYDALE LUMIERE (MRS S E EDWARDS) Res JSY CH TIROEN TAYLORMADE PD'H SH CM (MRS R E COX) VHC CATALUNA NICKLE N DIME (Mrs & Rev ROSE-HAY & GAUL) Special Puppy - Dog Entries: 18 Abs: 1 1st HENALEAS UPTOWN FLIRT AT BRAMSTORM (MRS J, MR P & MRS S HUMPHREYS & OLIVER) 2nd KIRWILLDALE CHASKA (MISS K WILLIAMSON) 3rd ANLORY MATARO (MR & MISS NAYLOR & MORRISON) Res KIRKAVAGH THE WIZARD (MRS D B CARDWELL) VHC CORDARRAGH REMBRANDT (MRS FARNDELL) Special Junior - Dog Entries: 13 Abs: 2 1st BALINTYNE FOREIGN INTRIGUE AT DELSANTO JW (MRS C A SHELDON) 2nd FETTERESK SNOW PATROL (MRS J HANNAH) 3rd DANAWAY PICASSO (MESDAMES M & M T PERRIN & GURNEY) Res BRABROOK SHANAVAS JW (MR A J & MRS B A DRINKWATER) VHC CORDARRAGH REMBRANDT (MRS FARNDELL) Yearling - Dog Entries: 20 Abs: 5 1st HARVANCOURT HARLEM AT JACINGAIL (MR K & MISS J PULLEN & ATKIN) 2nd DEACONARA DANSE DE BLEU AVEC DOTCOMSETTER JW (MR M S & MRS W L LEWIS) 3rd SUTERESETT MILKY WAY WITH SCARLETTI JW (MRS T & MISS G & MRS R GISBY & PIKE) Res KETTLEHILLS STAR TROOPER (MRS M ROSS) VHC IRISHMAGIC OF THE TRAV'LIN STAR AVEC AMBERLIGHT (IMP BEL) (MR & MRS P LUCAS) Undergraduate - Dog Entries: 26 Abs: 0 1st MAESCARTREF TENESSEE MOOD (MRS S J LEGGE) 2nd HIGHCLARE KNIGHTS TAIL (MISS TULLY) 3rd TIFOSI MASTERPIECE OF SHANDWICK (MRS P BUTLER-HOLLEY) Res CORRIEBRAN DIAGEM (MR T R MRS G J GRIFFIN) VHC THENDARA PRESS RELEASE AT DRUMVIEW (MESDAMES A & M CLARK & RAMSAY) Graduate - Dog Entries: 13 Abs: 0 1st THENDARA FROZEN ASSET (MR & MRS W & A LAUWERS) 2nd LOSKERAN DREAM MAKER SH CM (MRS J A BUCHAN) 3rd FEYLINCI BEACHCOMBER AT ORSTONE JW (MR P F & MRS J KNIVETON) Res REDDINS FALCON (MRS S C & MR S A WOOD) VHC RIVERMAN YEATS AT FERNHECTARE (MISS H J BRADLEY) Post Graduate - Dog Entries: 25 Abs: 0 1st KERRYFAIR SNOWFOX JW (MRS S & MISS K SCHORLEY-NEWTON & CHORLEY) 2nd MEADWAY MORRISEY (MRS J & MR B A EDDEN & CROCKER) 3rd COVARNEY MOCHA (MR W & MRS A NEEDS) Res GLENLAINE THE BEST MAN (MISS B GLADWISH) VHC SCARLETTI RAZZLE DAZZLE AT DERRYVEAGH (MR J E & MRS L BALDRY) Mid Limit - Dog Entries: 17 Abs: 1 1st GWENDARIFF MR NOTICEME JW (MR C & MRS H CROSSWELL) 2nd THENDARA KRAMER (MRS D & MR J MILLIGAN-BOTT & BOTT) 3rd RIVERBRUE XANTHUS BY ASTRAZONE JW (MRS C G MYERS) Res SERRULA PLAYAROUND AT ORSTONE (MR P F & MRS J KNIVETON) VHC GWENDARIFF TOP OF THE POPS (MISS S ROFFEY) Limit - Dog Entries: 21 Abs: 1 1st SHENANAGIN SCHOLAR WITH BRAIDMOUNT JW (MS M & MR W HUNTER & BROWN) 2nd LOSKERAN JITTERBUG SH CM (MRS J A BUCHAN) 3rd RIQITTA AUTHENTIC (MISS T GARDNER) Res GLENCARRON SHAKATAK (MS I MCNEIL) VHC AMBERWAVE BREEZER (MR & MRS J P POWIS) Open - Dog Entries: 25 Abs: 3 1st SH CH/IR SH CH NORTHAMBER JUST CAUSE FOR GLENAVNA JW (MRS C MCLARNON) 2nd SH CH SCOTSELAW DETROIT SPINNER BY THENDARA JW (MRS D & MR J MILLIGAN-BOTT & BOTT) 3rd SH CH GWENDARIFF ROCKIN ROBIN JW (MRS S E EDWARDS) Res SH CH GWENDARIFF POP THE QUESTION JW (MESDAMES J E & A M HOLLEY & CHENEY) VHC SH CH SUMARIC SHADOW OF MR JINGLES ( MR & MRS W & A LAUWERS) Field Trial - Dog Entries: 1 Abs: 0 1st INT CH COPPERSHEEN COALVILLE LAD [ATC AK00247CHE] (MRS S AMPORT) Special Working Gundog - Dog Entries: 4 Abs: 0 1st INT CH GLENNARA LONG WAY HOME (MS M SLIWINSKA) 2nd POL/UKR/DEN/SERB/SLO/ROM CH IRISH MELODY LUCKY LUKE [ATC AJ01421EST] (MRS E WOJCIK) 3rd BEL/LUX/VDH CH FLETCHER OF MCBIRDY [ATC AK00952BEL] (MR & MRS J & N DUHANT-KETELAERS) Res KONAKAKELA KINSMAN (DR S D & MR R A WIGFULL & HARTLEY) Good Citizen Dog Scheme - Dog Entries: 10 Abs: 0 1st LOSKERAN JITTERBUG SH CM (MRS J A BUCHAN) 2nd LOSKERAN DREAM MAKER SH CM (MRS J A BUCHAN) 3rd CATALUNA CAPTIVATIONE TO ZAKHAN (MRS J C RORKE) Res GLENLAINE THE BEST MAN (MISS B GLADWISH) VHC TARANDELL PASCALI SHCM (MS K A LEWIS) Veteran - Bitch Entries: 20 Abs: 0 1st SH CH BRAIDMOUNT GEISHA GIRL (MS M & MR W HUNTER & BROWN) 2nd COVARNEY MISS'B' HAVIN (MR G & MRS K & MISS H CONDRON & MORTIMER) 3rd BARLEYDALE HAPPINESS JW (MR J VANT) Res SH CH BRINARA BACKSEAT DRIVER (MRS B & MRS L BERRY &MORRIS) VHC BALINTYNE HOMEWARD BOUND (MRS G BARKER-BELL) Special Puppy - Bitch Entries: 20 Abs: 2 1st ROMARNE SAVANNAH JW (MRS L MUIR) 2nd KIRKAVAGH WINDMILL GIRL (MR S C & MRS L M KING) 3rd ANLORY CARINENA (MR & MISS NAYLOR & MORRISON) Res KEDALITA AERACURA (MR D & MRS L K TAPPER) VHC MILLCROFT PAPERMOON MAKES TATSBRO (MRS O M HENSON) Special Junior - Bitch Entries: 9 Abs: 0 1st SHANDWICK STAR SHINE AT TELERI JW (MRS P CATLING) 2nd SHANDWICK STAR SHINE AT TELERI JW (MRS P CATLING) 3rd KIRKAVAGH WINDMILL GIRL (MR S C & MRS L M KING) Res POLMENNOR FOR FUN (MRS A R ROBERTS) VHC FETTERESK SNOW BUSINESS (MRS I C MUNRO) HC FEARNLEY CHANDOM (MR I D & MRS S M TILLETT) Yearling - Bitch Entries: 30 Abs: 4 1st FORFARIAN CAUGHT YOU LOOKIN (MRS S & MISSES N & J STURROCK) 2nd GRAYRIGGE ROSALIND JW (MRS P M POLLARD) 3rd IDGIE OF MCBIRDY [ATC AM00185BEL] (MR & MRS J & N DUHANT-KETELAERS) Res IRISHPEARL OF THE TRAVLIN STAR (MRS L LEACH) VHC RIVERBRUE ENYO AT JUBLIANA (MR I G & MRS A J HARVEY) Undergraduate - Bitch Entries: 21 Abs: 2 1st GWENDARIFF WHATA WYNJILL JW (MRS J E HOLLEY) 2nd TIFOSI MAMAS PEARL (MR S G & MRS W J BROWN) 3rd IRISHPEARL OF THE TRAVLIN STAR (MRS L LEACH) Res GRACEWOOD FAIR ISLE (MISS D ROWE) VHC DEEVONVILLE SANTA LUCIA JW (MRS D G HEPPELL) Graduate - Bitch Entries: 20 Abs: 2 1st MILLCROFT BALLAD OF THE MOON JW (MISS J WALSH) 2nd FERNSTART LOVESONG (MISS R BOX) 3rd NEATHAMILL FIREBIRD JW (MRS B C & MR S J EVANS) Res GLENAVNA SITTIN PRETTY AT NORTHAMBER (MR & MRS B F & E HINSLEA) VHC LANSTARA LUSCIOUS LILY (MRS V BLACKSHAW) Post Graduate - Bitch Entries: 24 Abs: 5 1st LYNWOOD KISSED BY AN ANGEL AT SANDSTREAM JW (MISS S WATERTON) 2nd BRAIDMOUNT MIDNIGHT LADY JW (MS M & MR W HUNTER & BROWN) 3rd SAMETSUZ CALL GIRL J W (MS M J HENDERSON) Res DAVSET IT'S NOW OR NEVER (MR & MRS D & S HOPEWELL) VHC SHAYTELL JOLEENE (MR & MRS R D ROUT) Mid Limit - Bitch Entries: 20 Abs: 2 1st LYNWOOD STARTED WITH A KISS JW (MR R C & MRS J P MUGFORD) 2nd BANTHI CINAMMON'S [ATC AL00204NLD] (MISS A L M OEI) 3rd RIQITTA SHILLELAGH GOLD AT WISHINGTREE (MR C N & MRS P WADDELL) Res LOCHLORIEN PRIME SUSPECT FOR ANDLEY JW (MR G & MRS C STEVENSON) VHC DANAWAY BRIANA OF WYNJILL JW (MRS J E HOLLEY) Limit - Bitch Entries: 21 Abs: 5 1st MARGRETWOODS KITTY CAT JW (MRS J WILKINS) 2nd GWENDARIFF MISS WHIPLASH JW (MR F R & MRS A M MEADOWS) 3rd CARNBARGUS CONTEMPLATION JW (MRS E GARDNER) Res REDDINS ESTHER OF BLAYSDELL (MR A L & MRS S A GARDINER) VHC NORTHAMBER CAUSIN A RIOT JW (MR & MRS B F & E HINSLEA) Open - Bitch Entries: 25 Abs: 10 1st SH CH OUTFOXED BY KERRYFAIR JW (MRS S & MISS K SCHORLEY-NEWTON & CHORLEY) 2nd COPPERS CHAMPAGNE BUBBLE AT AOIBHEANNE JW (IMP SWE) (MISS E S CIECHONSKA) 3rd KIRKAVAGH IVANJICA JW (MR S C & MRS L M KING) Res SH CH SHENANAGIN SHOOTING STAR (MR J A WATT) VHC SH CH SAMETSUZ A TASTE OF HONEY (MS M J HENDERSON) Special Working Gundog - Bitch Entries: 2 Abs: 0 1st MON/RSM/E/HR/L/A/IN CH BRIGITTE BARDOT DEGLI ANGELI ROSSI [ATC AJ00248ITA] (MRS DANZE GLORIANA) 2nd IDGIE OF MCBIRDY [ATC AM00185BEL] (MR & MRS J & N DUHANT-KETELAERS) Good Citizen Dog Scheme - Bitch Entries: 15 Abs: 5 1st BRINARA WINTER CHERRY JW (MRS B & MRS L BERRY &MORRIS) 2nd DEEVONVILLE SANTA LUCIA JW (MRS D G HEPPELL) 3rd HEATHCLARE MAGIC MOMENTS JW (MR P N J GARLAND) Res LYNWOOD THEME SONG FOR POLMENNOR (MRS A R ROBERTS) VHC BAMBARELLA LOVE STORY (MRS A S ANDREWS)

Personally I don't know much but if I only had one afternoon some indicators might be - Can he play? (I would want a yes or at least shows interest) Does he want food (badly)? (Food driven dogs can be easier to train) Is he prepared to put in effort for food/play? (Biddability - my old girl wanted the food but would rather sit still until you caved) Does he seem shy/withdrawn? (If the answer is yes I would put some definate thought in) Does he startle easy? HA? DA? Is he a resource guarder? And does he seem inclined to chase/retrieve?

A harsh reply (and it crossed my mind) would be... No it's not safe, breeding a mastiff before it is physically mature means the testicles will be too small and the structures of the testicle (semifirous tubules, prostate ect) will be possibly ejaculated too, causing the dog to be permenantly infertile. The only way to determine physical maturity is when the diamater around the dog's head is exactly half that of it's rib cage and 1/5 that of the testes. Is this true? Who knows... maybe do some research to find out. I thought you got helpful, straight forward advice given the question asked.

Amy, Rusky and I do. Yay for Toby getting back into it! Hmmm not looking promising at the moment - I wish I wouldnt fail for calling a ' ethanolamine, glycerol and fatty acid chain' 'the ball with the squiggly bit' instead then I would be done in a quarter of the time :rolleyes:

RV are you coming to the retrieving on Sunday?? I start work at 7.30 am then the other weeks I finish at 6 - I might make it those weeks.