kiesha09

So back on the topic of LD as service dogs... I realise that they failed because they were not of sound temperament and not hypoallergenc. Was this because the 'breed' was underdeveloped which is still the case now? In time and with dedicated development with strict criteria could they be bred as service dogs once again if they got the temperaments right? No they won't be hypoallergenic (what dog is) but they could be non-shedding which I believe would be of benefit to those who require a service dog. If not what breed that we currently have now could be used in its place or what solution has been come to?

I completely agree with you about the rediculous prices!!! It is astranomical. But I do wonder if it is a matter of economics, supply and demand and all that. They can charge those prices because the demand is so high people are willing to pay any price.

So ReadySetGo are you saying that we can never develop any more breeds of dogs because it would involve xbreeding in the first place?

If it wasn't a labradoodle but some other kind of xbreed that didn't include oodle in it which was working on breed development would there be the same kind of backlash here? I know the cooli is further developed than the labradoodle but why doesn't create the same kind of outcry here?

Well the ones I have met have been quite ugly little dogs with bad temperaments that I would never recommend to anyone. Coats that are so hard to manage that they're kept clipped as short as possible. All from ALA registered Breeders. They look like deformed poodles when clipped short. Where as an actual poodle looks quite handsome when clipped! I have no idea why someone would want one. A friend of my family who oversees the entire Guide Dog breeding operation in NSW (She found us both Rover and Riddicks breeders :rolleyes:!) said that she would never recommend a labradoodle because overall they have such bad or simply unpredictable temperaments. Edit to add, I have met a hell of a lot of Labradors. None have been anything like Calm (except for my 2). Calm isn't really what comes to mind when I think of a Labrador though.. Fair enough. I was only talking from the experiences that I have had but I don't doubt you.

No I'm not. I am simply answering questions that are being asked. I personally would never own a LD.

They ALA bred ones I've met had the temperament of a calm lab without the shedding. Their coats were different in texture and waviness/curliness but all shed minimally. For the people who want one of these dogs that is the advantage. The clients would also list an advantage of 'they don't look like a poodle' but we all know they look just like a scruffy poodle really!

Completely agree poodlefan I hear it all the time from those people who bought from BYBers. For what its worth the ones I know bred by ALA registered breeders I believe all fit within their respective height ranges so those owners did know what they are getting.

Gremlins...

I think alot of people also buy them because they either know other people with one or see them at the park etc. Plus they don't want a dog that is as big as a lab. Well thats what alot of people in my puppy classes tell me. I have worked with LOTS of labradoodles from BYBers and Puppy Farmers through instructing. Temperament wise they are all over the place - some hypo (actually most of them), some relaxed, some timid, some outgoing. Coats are all over the place as is size. However, my bf's house mate has a F5 cross which she got from an ALA registered breeder. He's a wonderful dog with a fantastic temperament and would make a great family pet. I have also instructed a couple of others from the same ALA breeder who have had very similar temperaments but their coats did vary. Whilst these dogs don't appeal to me personally I can see how they do to families and from the ones I've seen they have been good allrounders.

Not sure that is a fair comment. Not even ALL registered breeders of current registered breeds would adhere to all the principles on the website. And people have plenty to say about the difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an unethical one. No different. My point was, they can't expect "serious" dog people to take them seriously they need to push the difference between ethical and unethical in the same way ANKC breeders do. Absolutely AGREE and this is what I was trying to convey in my above post. You put it much more succinctly than I did though

Those involved in the ALA are not breeding Labradors to Poodles. They are way beyond doing F1 crosses. Crossing two separate breeds: * does not guaranteee that the offspring will have any one particular feature of either of them. Low shedding coats, size, temperament.. all a big question mark * Does not eliminate the health issues in either of the parent breeds. Labradors and poodles carry identical genes for PRA.. HD etc also exists in both breeds * does not create a breed when breeders do not move beyond F1 crosses Your average "Labradoodle" breeder makes a range of outrageous unsupportable claims about what the pups will grow up to be, uses less than the best quality breeding stock, markets them at ridiculous prices to people who are novices in the dog world, doesn't health test and has zero interest in the pups unless they retain breeding rights. That's what pisses me off about the DD generators. : Yes and these are the BYBers and puppy farmers who I am absolutely opposed to! But there are actually some people out there registered with the ALA who have a strict C of E and are trying to have this breed recognised and this is what I am not against. There are many many people out there who want these dogs so why not educate them and directing them to buy from a ALA registered breeder and the benefits (ethical, health tested etc.) over BYBers just like many of us do for purebreeds. If we don't people are still going to buy these dogs but go to the closest place they can find one be int from a BYBer or a puppy farm. Lets also be realistic and remember that there are many BYBers and puppy farmers of currently registered breeds too so its not a problem just limited to labradoodles.

IF every single Labrador x Poodle breeder adhered to the principles on the website you found then I doubt many people would have too much to say about them. Simple fact is - they don't. Simple fact is - creating a new breed requires long term committment and strict criteria. Grabbing two random dogs and mating them doesn't work. Multi-generational labrador x poodles certainly exist and I believe that somewhere there probably are a small number of people who sincerely do believe they are creating a new breed, and some of them even do adhere to the principles listed on that website, but if they want to be taken seriously they need to distance themselves completely from the puppy farm oodle AND change the name of their new breed - honestly how can you take something called a "Labradoodle" seriously Not sure that is a fair comment. Not even ALL registered breeders of current registered breeds would adhere to all the principles on the website. If you look at the Australian Labradoodle Association code of ethics it is more stringent than the ANKC. Hip and elbow scoring must be done on all animals used for breeding, plus DNA testing for PRA. Animals with hip or elbow dysplasia must not be used for breeding and there is a suggested cut off for the hip score which is quite low. The combination of PRA results for the parents must produce nothing worse than an unaffected carrier offspring. There is nothing in the C of E about temperament or puppy socialisation but this is not a requirement of an ANKC - registered breeder either. All litters produced must be registered with the ALA. There is nothing in the Code of Ethics about breeding a bitch for 3 consecutive seasons, however the ANKC merely refuses to register the third litter. I completely agree with you that grabbing 2 random dogs and mating them together doesn't work but those serious about developing this breed certainly do have a strict criteria. They certainly have a major problem with BYBers which is definately going to hinder the development of the breed. If they really want to get it recognised I think they only way would be to change the name and distance themselves from the BYB's.

Sending positive healing vibes to Yogi! What a horrible freak accident!!!

What are the exercise requirements of a Portuguese Water Dog? I thought they were similar to that of a BC? Perhaps the general public just need to see more standard poodles unclipped and scruffy... they probably wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. Any poodle people have pics? Would be great to see some comparisons (here's my bad attempt at encouraging piccies)

I know what you are saying and to a certain extent I agree with you that people should be aware that some combinations may not be perfect or even possible but if the combination of the wooly coat and lab temp is achievable I see no real difference between the development of this breed and the development of many other breeds. It's very easy to say choose another breed but how many non shedding breeds have the laid back temp of the lab? The ones I've seen suggested in threads are often very high drive breeds which may not necessarily suit the average owner. The ones that would should be promoted as such if they fit the criteria for the average owner. I agree that the facts about the coat do need to be more widely publicised, in the end it should come down to which coat type is more suitable for an owner not which one is easiest but coat type is often going to be a factor in the decision and obviously it's becoming more of a factor than it has in the past. Breeds exist for human convenience for good or for ill and since more owners are making coat type a big part of their buying decision it's inevitable that breeds will be developed to suit this niche whether we like it or not. The public does need to be aware that they cannot 'order' the perfect dog to their specifications but if we denigrate them for wanting a certain type of dog and say if they can't meet our high standards of ownership dont own a dog what will be the ultimate result? Either they will listen and only a small segment of dog enthusiasts will own dogs, or they will do what they want anyway but if we hinder the development of a breed which may be suitable then people will continue to buy dogs which are unsuitable and in the end the dogs suffer. I don't know whether the development of a labradoodle is a good or a bad thing for dogs and dog ownership or whether it is just pandering to a public that is less tolerant of the normal aspects of dog ownership but I do think it's inevitable that it will be recognized in the end so there is no point trying to convince the public that they are terrible for wanting one or convincing them that all DD breeders are the spawn of Satan who care nothing for their dogs. WoofnHoof you are absolutely spot on with everything you have said I can't stand dog hair everywhere and therefore I have a non-shedding breed. It doesn't make me a lazy ass or irresponsible owner whose dog is an inconvenience. In fact it means that I probably spend more time brushing & grooming than owners with shedding dogs. This is my preference and I'm happy to do that. I don't think its fair though for people to be so stereotypical with a holier than thou attitude to people who want a non-shedding dog. My best friend has a lab and would love it if he didn't shed so she could spend more time exercising, playing and training and less time vacuuming which certainly isn't a bad thing! I think labradoodles are here to stay and the educated dog community would be better off offering their experience and wisdom to ensure that this breed is developed ethically and the right way rather than fighting it and continuously putting up road blocks because this is how the breed development will end up in the hands of byb's.

Just a quick question about the Royal - are the dogs required to stay around all day even if they have already competed? My partner is interested in talking to some breeders in the afternoon but just want to make sure they will still be around.

I just love Gerts name and want to say it over and over.... Gert, Gert, Gert, Gert, Gert, Gert... hehe ah such a great name!

What about 'Smudge' - she is blue merle afterall which kind of looks like a smudge. Sorry it isn't anything to do with a star though.

I wish I could stick a sign on my forehead that says 'dogs don't need to be playing to socialise!' or 'socialised dogs & their humans can still have manners.' Bah this kind of thing drives me nuts.

Can I recommend woolmix diluted in water to clean your carpet. It works a treat and doesn't need to be washed out. Best thing I've ever found and smells great too

I agree. I forgot - hubby bought me a 'Happy Birthday Mum' card from the dogs this year :D :D ;) For my birthday and Christmas my mum always buys me an extra present with a card which is addressed 'Dear Mummy' and she signs it from my dogs. Spoilt much!

I agree with this but obviously you would need to see what other body language is happening too. I probably wouldn't be reprimanding the kelpie for it either which would just add to the stress or teach the kelpie not to do it while you are present.

I get SSSOOOOO sick of my SIL saying 'you only got dogs to prepare you for babies, but once the babies come along you won't care about the dogs.' Its a disgraceful comment to make and I feel like slapping her every time she says it! I love dogs and I love kids but they are not mutually exclusive.

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