memrabull

Thanks everyone for your input......decided to bite the bullet and try the blue backed provided in the link....worth giving it a go :D

Does the rubber disintegrate? I always buy new bedding for each new litter, so if it only lasts out one litter before wearing down, that would suit me ok...... It does, when I take mine out of the wash the rubber is all through the plush pile reminds me of grated cheese Thanks......that solves that question....no rubber backed for me :)

I have thought of doing that, but our mums are usually super restless/klutzy so I figured they would probably be forever messing up the join and I would be constantly trying to flatten it back out.....I have the bedding go under each side of their box with about 30cm spare all round and that is the only way to keep their bed 'intact' :)

Does the rubber disintegrate? I always buy new bedding for each new litter, so if it only lasts out one litter before wearing down, that would suit me ok......

Thanks for the link....is this as good as vet bed?....as in, is it as thick a pile and as absorbent as the green backed bedding? It is the one I am having the fluff shedding problem with, not as good as the old soft backed stuff but I don't like green or rubber backed either........................some people are hard to please LOL Just needs heaps of washing and whacking!! Does putting it in the dryer help with the fluff problem? Is the pile as thick and does it absorb as well as the backed vet bed, or is it worth the multiple hot washes/dryers and still use the green backed instead? I have heard the rubber backed is softer but the rubber disintegrates (mind you, I do get a bit of green stuff on the floor and in the dryer from the green back but it never really worries me) so I have never tried it.

Thanks for the link....is this as good as vet bed?....as in, is it as thick a pile and as absorbent as the green backed bedding?

Hi, When I first started using Vet bed a number of years ago, I was able to get it without any green or rubber backing.......Does anyone know if you can still buy it? Our whelping boxes are quite large, so I need to buy the vet bed in pieces of 150x150cm and to get this into the washing machine is quite a chore (before I use it, I run it through the hottest wash twice then through the drier which helps to soften it up). Without the greenback, it was so much easier! I haven't tried the rubber backed yet as I figured it would be just as bulky? I love the vet bed and I wouldn't use anything else for my puppies, but I either need to get the unbacked bedding or a bigger washing machine :)

I have heard about a product called CellFood and was wondering if any DOLs use it for their dogs?

Thanks for that......I think I have been definitely convinced that 8 weeks is better for their first vaccination......& no more than a C3. I always thought I was doing the right thing by giving them the C4 or C5, but the more I read the more I am convinced that, especially for the first shot, less is better.

When you find this out can you please tell me the secret??? We always tell people up here to never take their pup outside their property until after their 3rd vaccine. Even people that have followed this advice to a T have ended up with a pup with parvo. Its a horrible virus, you have no idea where it is and when it will strike. You can take every single possible precaution and still end up with infections. Doesn't give us Dog Lovers much peace of mind does it......it's like a monster lurking in the dark, just waiting to pounce on poor innocent dogs. Do you find that the larger breeds are hit any harder than other types of breeds. The more research I have done (including ringing & emailing vets in Australia & overseas), the more I am being told that the Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo.....not necessarily at more of a risk catching it (although some think this also), but much more susceptible of dying from it. What has been your experience? My personal experience has been its all random. Off the top of my head the breeds which have died from parvo this year in our clinic are a Shar Pei (x2), Mastiff X, Chihuahua X, and a couple of mixed breed camp dogs. We have treated a very wide range of breeds for parvo - it doesnt seem like any particular breed is more susceptible. What is consistant though in all our cases is either 1. owners have taken their dogs out walking before their final vaccine - this is the biggest one 2. the dogs were not vaccinated as pups at all (my oldest parvo case was 8 years old) 3. the owners have recently moved into a new house (very common up here - being a mining town) and then got a new pup - in these cases there was probably a pup with parvo there before them. Thanks....... Now another question for you, & I know you probably don't definitely know, but in your experience, is Logan immune to Parvo now, or should I be worried he may contract it again if I take him outside into our Virkoned yard?? I have no doubt that he definitely had Parvo, but it was definitely a lot milder for him (reminds me, where he had his vaccination there is still a lump......could this mean that the vaccination didn't go through his system, therefore his immunity wasn't compromised as much as the other babies??). This one is really worrying to me......it is unhealthy for him to stay inside 24/7, but is it risky for him to go outside into our yard for some playtime & sunshine?? I really appreciate your imput, & you have obviously dealt with Parvo a lot......thanks for answering my questions.

When you find this out can you please tell me the secret??? We always tell people up here to never take their pup outside their property until after their 3rd vaccine. Even people that have followed this advice to a T have ended up with a pup with parvo. Its a horrible virus, you have no idea where it is and when it will strike. You can take every single possible precaution and still end up with infections. Doesn't give us Dog Lovers much peace of mind does it......it's like a monster lurking in the dark, just waiting to pounce on poor innocent dogs. Do you find that the larger breeds are hit any harder than other types of breeds. The more research I have done (including ringing & emailing vets in Australia & overseas), the more I am being told that the Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo.....not necessarily at more of a risk catching it (although some think this also), but much more susceptible of dying from it. What has been your experience?

Hi......Thank you so much for your answer......it has a double effect for me..... Firstly, it seems as if I have been doing things pretty much the 'right' way with my babies, so helps to put my mind at ease that I raised them the best way I could........but secondly.......it kind of makes me feel pretty isolated & questioning that age old question "Why Me!!"......not that I would want anyone else to go through it, but why did it have to hit my gorgeous babies?? Thanks again

Great question.......I would definitely love to know also!!!

Sorry.....another thing....... Even though I am doing everything to 'kill' the Parvo at our place........what stops it being 'dragged' in here again at a later date?? Are we to always use a footbath just to enter our property?? If Parvo is so prevalant, how are we to avoid it other than what we have already been doing as responsible dog owners - vaccinations, etc, etc? It is soooo frustrating to see so many dogs roaming the streets, never getting sick or injured, and we love & care for our dogs, & this happens. Sorry.......I am obviously getting in a frustrated & negative mood (which in itself is frustrating......I am usually a very Positive person!!)

I have been worrying about this all day.........and researching it, & I am more confused then ever!!! At what age does everybody have their puppies first vaccination & then what age do they let their puppies go?? Thanks for your reply Deb.....and if I am looking at the right part, yes, the vaccines are from the same batch. I have always let our babies go at 8-9 weeks old - usually 9 weeks as I used to get their first vaccination at 7 weeks, then waited 2 weeks before they were allowed to go to their new homes - but this time, listened to the vets regarding the new vaccination protocol starting at 6 weeks old. We had also recently bought in a new boy to be a future stud dog, & he was only 8 weeks old when we got him & he had been vaccinated at 6 weeks old. This is through a breeder who has been breeding Bullmastiffs for more than 20 years, and has been showing dogs for over 35 years, is a ANKC Champ Judge & has bred many, many, many litters over the years. I thought this was a pretty standard protocol, vaccinate at 6 weeks (I thought I was the odd one out usually doing them at 7 weeks old) & let them go to their new homes at 8 weeks old. BUT, I am definitely a person who wants to know other breeder's opinions & what has worked for them, especially now after this tragedy has happened! Also, does everyone let their puppies run in an outside pen? or are they kept inside until they leave for their new homes. I usually have my babies inside until they are 4 - 5 weeks old (when they start to escape from their whelping box) in a sunlit room, then they progress to their puppy pen - a separate yard just for our babies - with a large attached room. I couldn't imagine our babies not being able to run around outside, as they absolutely love it & I am sure it couldn't be healthy for them to stay inside?? This Parvo has definitely knocked me for a six, & I think the reality of what has happened is really clicking in now - I'm on a huge emotional rollercoaster & am always on the verge of bawling......& if you knew me, you would know that I don't show my emotions very often! If you are a breeder & have had something like this happen to you, I would REALLY, REALLY love to hear from you, as though I have received so much support from you all (and a BIG thankyou for that), nobody has said if they have lost a litter from Parvo........am I the only one?? How does a breeder come back from this & take the enormous risk of this happening again??

Hi Deb, Why don't you vaccinate at 6 weeks old......do you think that could have made things worse for us?? I have since read that the vaccine 'suppresses' their immune system?? I received a reply from Dr Jean Dodds "In the case of infectious diseases, it is not unusual to have one or two pups remain only mildly ill or not get sick at all, when the rest of the litter is very ill or succumbs-- so it does apears that these litters were infected accutely with a parvo-like virus. The shed vaccine virus from the first older litter could have exposed the second litter that then became immune suppressed by the vaccination they were given [many vaccines cause relative immune suppression for the first 3-7 days after vaccination] on top of the exposure to the first litter's shed vaccine virus. While we have been giving just a single parvovirus vaccine to pups as young as 6 weeks of age in areas of North America whee there is an current endemic of parvo 2-c, we generally do not recommend vaccinating puppies this young and certainly would not recommend a combo vaccine before 8- 8.5 weeks, and preferably not until 9-10 weeks." Another breeder has told me that two of her litters of 5 & 7 who were vaccinated at the same time, all died within a week of vaccination.......but the vets & manufacturers totally denied that a vaccine could do that to puppies?? I usually only vaccinate a little after 7 weeks old, but my vet advised me that the 'protocol' for vaccinations had just changed.......so thought I would do the right thing & listened to him........but I'm now pretty concerned about vaccinations! I have gone over & over every 'scenario' as to how this has happened.........I never take our puppies to the vets for their shots, but I get the vets to come to our place, though they stay outside the puppy pen & I hold them one by one to get their needle. I have since found out that Parvo had started in our town at least a month or so before my babies came down with it.......could the vet have brought it into my yard & one of the mums picked it up?? Who knows??........Dazy had been a bit 'fussy' with her food, but I had put it down to her being totally weaned from her puppies & not getting all her exotic goodies in the feed dish to supplement her feeding her babies........maybe she came down with it - in a mild form - & then passed it to her babies when she had her daily 'kisses' through their fence???? Or maybe when the vet came to give them their microchips the day before my babies left??? Or did one of us unknowingly walk it into our yard?? Or did our tyres?? Or did the little birds who loved to come into the puppy yard & try to feed on any 'leftovers'?? It really breaks my heart everytime I look at where my puppies should be playing, & realise that I may have 'unwittingly' done this to them. I have begun the huge task of Virkon-ing everything......bought a 5 kg tub........& want to know......how many times should I redo everything. My little Logan is now fully recovered & is totally spoilt, but I don't dare let him back outside, I am so paranoid that he can 'catch' it again......most seem to say he should now be immune for life, but some say they can catch it again?? Dr Jean Dodds said I could get him titer tested after 16 weeks old, so I can't wait until I can do that to see if he is now 'immune'. The first photo of Logan is at nearly 6 weeks old.....only days before our nightmare started! The second photo I have just taken now at 8 1/2 weeks old.......not as 'chubby' yet as he should be, but he never stays still.....he is soooo full of beans, but we love that!!! poocow......I'm really sorry to hear that your little guy is still suffering because of this wretched virus......I only pray that my poor remaining babies have escaped permanent damage!!

poocow, Did your little guy show the repurcussions right from the start, or did they only show up at a later date?? This is also a concern for me, not just with my little Logan (who didn't have a serious case of Parvo), but also with little Po who is still fighting it after a huge battle.........what is her prognosis likely to be, and what sort of repurcussions are we talking about?

I'm not sure if I have uploaded this properly, but this is one of my favourite photos........and one that I now treasure more than ever!! It is my little Mater giving his mummy a kiss at nearly 3 weeks old......

Hi again, Thanks for the replies........ What is Virkon S, Trigene & F10.....do they do a better job of killing the Parvo than bleach? I have never heard of doing vaccinations from 2 weeks old.....I will talk to my vet (he studied/researched immunology for 20 years). I have read about giving blood plasma to puppies that are more susceptible to Parvo.....and since this has all happened, I have now been told by a number of vets that Bullmastiffs (this is what we breed/show/are addicted to) and other Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo?? So, has anyone heard of using blood plasma to boost immunity?? Our dogs have always had annual vaccinations, but I am going to look into doing titer testing to check their immune levels.......didn't know anything about this before now & I am really interested to check their levels. Missymoo, I was interested to read your post about Hef.......I am so glad that he fought it so hard & made it through!! My little Logan is on his 3rd day of no vomiting, keeping his food down & his stools are almost solid again........he definitely didn't get the full-blown version like all the poor other babies, but I am so glad that I have 1 baby left to spoil & help me get through all this. I have seen so many different 'success rates' that I am really confused........some say 85-90%, some say 50% and one vet with one of the little babies that went to Sydney told the owner that there was only a 7% success rate in a pup so young?? Whichever one is correct, my babies were definitely doomed to the lower success rate for some reason or another........that is with at least 7 different vet surgeries around the country, treating each pup with the 'normal' Parvo treatment of IV Fluids, anti nausea medication, antibiotics, protein something-or-other & two even had blood transfusions - one died & the other is the little girl who is still fighting it. The vast majority of these babies came down sick the one day, the next they had brightened a little & ate small amounts (two vets even let them go home with treatment as they considered them out of danger), then the 3rd day took a real turn for the worse and then most died on their 4th or 5th day at the vets. A couple even seemed to stabilise after their 3rd or 4th day & things looked hopeful, then went downhill really fast & died regardless of treatment. My vet told me that they had obviously contracted the virus during their 'window of vulnerability' where the mother's antibodies are wearing off, but the vaccine hadn't had time to work? Since this has all happened, I hear that Parvo has been running wild lately......is this true? and if it is, why don't they put it in the newspapers warning everyone that it is around?? Cavalier, you say that you treat about 5 a week.......do you find that it is more around in any particular season? I have been told that it is more common in the summer months?? It is spring at the moment, but we have had some really weird 'heat waves' & was wondering if that could have 'wakened' it early? I would love to have some answers for these 'unanswerable' questions, and I know that it is now too late for my poor babies, but it is really frustrating not knowing why Parvo was soooo deadly in this case?? I forgot to mention also in my post, that although my poor buyers have suffered a lot of heartache at losing their new babies, I have given them a full refund for their puppy (not much of a consolation, though) and will repay them for their airflights & vet bills.......it's bad enough that this has happened to them, but I definitely don't want them out of pocket as well as heartbroken. And to add insult to injury, it has also put a stop to them being able to add another baby to their family until their environment is 'safe'. On that point, what is everyone's opinion about the time frame before they are able to bring another puppy into their environment.......another highly debatable point, obviously, as I have read anywhere from 4 months to 5 years!! Has anyone on this forum personally used Parvaid & had success with it? It is a real pity that I still won't know if this could have been a saviour for my puppies. Thanks again for taking the time to help me with answers & for all of your condolences.......it means a lot to me to know that others care.

Hi, I am new to the forum, though have been a member of DogzOnline for years........ I apologise upfront for such a long post........ I am a breeder/exhibitor who adores my dogs & do everything in my power to do the best by them. I recently had two litters two weeks apart, which amounted to 21 gorgeous, happy, chubby, playful & adored puppies. Any breeder would understand the sheer pride/joy/love/amazement of having two such successful litters.........& then to have disaster strike in the form of Parvo; it has been absolutely heartbreaking. I am extremely careful with any litter I have - as our house is on the market, I figured it would be too hard to have the puppies inside, as I usually do, if I had an inspection, so instead, I moved out into a detached laundry with its own yard. I slept out there with them for the first 4 weeks of their lives, watching them 24/7 to make sure the mums didn't squash their babies & that all babies were feeding. Also, since they were such large litters, right from day 1 I supplemented their feeds with bottle feeding them fresh Goat's Milk, so you can imagine how extremely close I got to every single baby. They absolutely thrived right from the start, with no worries with any puppy (again, another point to be thankful for).....they were happy, energetic babies with huge appetites. At 6 weeks old, my oldest litter had their first vaccination (C4) & with no real dramas.......but is this where I made my first mistake?? Right from the start I had both litters in the same room (both mum's have great temperements) in separate whelping boxes, but when the puppies started going outside a bit, I had them all together.......that is my first question - should I have kept them separate......did the vaccinated puppies somehow infect my younger litter with Parvo from their injection??? I can't really find out the answer to this, only that a small amount of virus can be shed by vaccinated puppies - but enough to infect an unvaccinated puppy?? I have emailed Dr Jean Dodd's (I have seen her name mentioned quite a bit on this forum) regarding all this & I'm looking forward to her reply. At 8 weeks old, eight of my eleven of the eldest litter (I was keeping a little girl, and the other two were going to fly out with the younger litter) went to their new homes - 7 flew, 1 was local; happy, playful, chubby puppies leaving a sad mum behind to find their new adventures in their new families (I am very fussy about who my puppies go to, & I screen the buyers to make sure they will provide the best of homes) - just how it should be. Everybody got their new baby & was excited about their newest member of their families.......not realising that the future was about to deal us all a terrible blow. Three days later, I had my youngest litter, then 6 weeks old, given their first vaccination & the 3 eight week old babies still with me had their 2nd vaccination (I was told that the new vaccination protocal was 6, 8 & then 10-12 weeks old), so thought I was doing the right thing. A day later was the start of the nightmare....... I had 3 puppies off their food a bit, so just to be safe, I emailed everyone to make sure their puppies were fine.......most were, but one had been taken to the vet off their food......still no panic, yet! Then a puppy tested positive to Parvo......so I immediately rang everyone to warn them & to take extra, extra notice of everything their puppy did. This was to be of no avail.......even though everyone was extremely diligent & took their puppy to the vets at the first sign of anything wrong; 8 of my 11 beautiful older puppies died, and 9 of my 10 younger puppies died regardless of their treatment. The day I realised just how deadly this strain of Parvo was (the first 5 of my beautiful babies died that day) even with 24/7 veteranarian care, I immediately started Googling alternative treatments. This led me to Parvaid, which I immediately ordered from America going Super Express (1-3 working days) hoping against hope that it might save some puppies.......this wasn't meant to be. Even though it arrived in Australia in 3 days, it got caught up in Customs/Quarantine for 5 days (though we weren't told of this until the 4th day), which ended up being too late to save any of my babies. My last surviving puppy still at home, Logan, didn't seem to get Parvo as severly and was already starting to improve, but I did everything possible to get that Parvaid out of Quarantine (ringing the manufacturere in the middle of the night, etc) & when it was finally released (with a fee of $68), Fedex then informed me it wouldn't be delivered until Monday (this was last Friday). Not wanting to take the chance that my little Logan would relapse, I then arranged for a courier to pickup the Parvaid from Sydney & fly it to the Brisbane airport (another $218.......worked out to be very expensive Parvaid.....but worth every cent if it worked as good as I have read) which then my husband did a 5 hour round trip to pick up. I have been giving Logan the 'post Parvo' dose to hopefully prevent a relapse & to help build him back up.....so far so good. While waiting for the Parvaid, I also read that Tamiflu could also 'cure' Parvo, so tried this as well. The last five babies received this, though 2 were past the 'within 48 hours of first sign', 1 was just at the 48 hour mark, 1 just showed signs that morning, and Logan was yet to show any signs, so he went on the 'preventative' dose. I again rang the USA to talk to the vet who is researching the Tamiflu, and did everything to his instructions.......but still 4 of the 5 died??!! I am not sure if you can totally understand the sheer heartache & frustration these last two weeks have been for me, unless you have gone through similar yourself. Will I breed again.....not too sure......definitely not at this location, but even at our next place, how can I justify the risk of this devastation happening again to cause such gorgeous babies to go through such a horrendous virus with seemingly little I can do to prevent it/treat it?? I have since discovered Parvo can be carried by flies, birds, mice, shoes, tyres, etc, etc......how do you avoid that?? Not to mention my poor, heartbroken puppy buyers who have had to share in this heartache and watch their new babies die, when it should have been such an exciting time having a new baby around!! I currently have 2 British Bulldog babies born 5 days ago, and my father has a litter of pups due any day........you can't believe how much I have been dreading these litters being born since this nightmare began. What should have been an exciting time for me (haven't had a Bulldog litter in 4 years), holds so much dread for these poor little babies. I am keeping them totally isolated, & my poor body is starting to show the effects of constantly being sprayed with bleach, but I have got to give these helpless little babies every chance (needless to say, I have got them on the prevantative dose of Parvaid). There is some fantastic news amidst this very depressing post........two of my older litter babies never showed any signs of Parvo, & today is day 16 since they left me........surely this must mean that they are now in the clear!! One other little girl is still fighting it & is showing signs of improvement, so I am still praying for her full recovery. And now after all this rambling, sorry, I have a few questions....... The puppies were due to be wormed when all this started, so Logan obviously needs to be wormed, but should I do it yet, or wait until his poor digestive system has healed? Now that these surviving babies have been exposed/suffered from Parvo, does that mean that they have immunity from it, or do they still need their remaining vaccinations, and when, or should I do a titer test first (have read about them on this forum also)? I'm sorry again about such a long post......this last fortnight has seemed like an eternity to me, so it was hard to express everything in a short post. I would really love to hear from anyone who has been devastated by Parvo, and how you came back from it. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and any suggestions/personal experiences will be most appreciated. RIP my beautiful, precious babies - I loved every minute I spent with you; watching you grow & the utter joy I had at our 'chew on mum' times..... I love you Kerchak, Mushu, JeanBob, Pooka, Terk, Rajah, Mater, Sully, Rogue, Storm, JakJak, Hercules, Electra, Kit, Flash, Hiro & Dash. I had truly hoped that you would experience every doggy joy here on earth......but it wasn't meant to be, so I hope you are now enjoying doggy heaven!!