chrisjc

and i think having ago at Tybrax about overturning bsl, is a punch below the belt, Tybrax has been involved in anti bsl stuff as long as ive been around the dogs and has been active in anti bsl stuff the whole time, and i will say confidently shes done more than anyone else here when it comes down to the crunch. so if you dont agree fine leave it there but joking about someone thats done more than you on the subject is just wrong.

Diablo has got it right , and now they cant be sold or given away either. my dog is in sa due to the more relaxed laws there compared to queensland. one part of the laws in sa state you have to put dangerous dog signs on your entry points to the property. i think that is ridiculus as if something was to happen in your yard with your dog such a sign is like you openly addmitting you have a dog that will attack, and you and your dog are stuffed if you went into court. as i wasnt in anyway happy to admit i have a dangerous dog i got legal advice for the situation. my Lawyer and i wrote a letter and approached my local council with this as our argument and i was able to get away with no putting the signs up. But the onlyreason being that i have never posed any issues with any council regards to the containment of the dog and always registering ect, so i have a good track record with them. i would advise anybody to do the same if you can afford to get a lawyer for such a small task, it wasnt realy in my affordability at the time but i went ahead with it and i felt better for the dog afterwards, i was never expecting a problem but it doesnt mean you shouldnt assess the risks at hand.

what a senseless post! to think that i am such a fool as to not know that makes me wonder about your motives? of course we know why we are were we are but i am to blame as much as you in this regard. I can go about my ways for years to come and it will make no difference on dickheads buying dogs for the wrong reasons, you just cant seem to grasp that can you. but since you are so upto date on the situation why dont you tell me what i can do, youve already assumed i know little with your question so im guessing youve got a plan mapped out for me. what some of you dont seem to realise is that leaving it to us to dig our way out of a hole we didnt dig ourselves , the only similarity is the type of dog i own. the problem is better tackled by owners of all breeds jumping on board with their experience and understanding that all dogs have the chance to bite, attack and maim, not just the few that seem to make the headlines, support needs to come from all dog people not just the ones whos pets lives are at stake. another thing you cant seem to grasp, is if or more than likely when this breed is "bred out of existence" in our country because it is no longer around it will obviously be replaced with another breed which will then be classed as the most dangerous , and when thats gone another, its not solving the real problem. my biggest gripe is that no one gives a rats until its them who is in the firing line before they have something good to do or say. the truth is the percentage of Apbt owners seems to be the undesirable type, so obviously us "desirable" owners go unoticed, doesnt mean we are not around, and it certainly doesnt mean we should have to suffer because no one would help us when we will openly admit its not something we can tackle on our own. i would assume that you wouldnt have a clue about it, but there are actually lots and lots of Apbt owners that are too scared to even admit their breed or even worse go deeper underground to protect their beloved family pet. thre are also plenty of other decent folk who have allready been beaten down that low with it they will break the laws and continue to own and breed their animals in the background because they feel we have allready been beaten. you may comment against that but it is a reality, and put it into perspective by summing up what you would have to go through to get to that stage? i even have people that have stopped being around me, because i write letters, and openly state my stance they see me as someone who will be targeted in the future regardless of wheather i follow the rules.

i realy dont know why? i am sick of the whole thing and think that time could be better served in researching the situations around individual attacks and what factors contribute to those attacks happening, but at the same time i do get a bit sick of pointing fingers and some saying that stereotypes are not pc, but then stereotype us by saying stuff like"you guys" this and that, far from making headway imho. dotit4the dogs i have never once changed my stance or opinions on the situation ever. as i have stated above twice now it was all in jest. i mean how stupid do you think i am, all it would take is to look through and anyone could call me out on it, but they cant because you wont find it.

i could just blame it on finger pointers like you. watching in the background ready to pounce arnt you. im actually pretty interested what are you doing for the dogs?

Sbt , i know what the point was i was just firing a bit back at you! i have figured that your a bit of a cynic hence some of my answers sometimes, but its all in fun. I have pretty much the same opinion as you when t comes to the stats but i suppose with this they are not released these have been added up and posted by a member. doesnt change my reasoning in any way.

Poodlefan, i realy do hope that you are right. Sandra, i was talking about the people over here doing jack, not there but i do understand your point. There are plenty of Pitbull people doing lots of stuff out there but as the desirable type of owners are they are of the same %. I just get sick of the same types of people going on about the same shit and it always comes back to "the pit people need to do this or that" its crap and its in no way constuctive and both parties end up hitting their heads against a wall, we are told to stop giving out the same argument, but then what is fired directly at us is no different either, just sounds like one party, is happy to sit on their side of the fence and give out advice but when it comes down to it they cant do anything constructive anyways. Sbt, some could argue that if thats the case we should ban staffords aswell since they rate so high. Youd better change your bait and recast the fish dont seem to be biting.

Sbt some of us have got our head around it, and have for quite some time. Bsl is not and has never just been about Pit Bulls, there are many other wonderfull breeds that are on the hit list too. there are countries where ,Staffords, AST, Rotties, GSD, are on the top of the hit list. Bsl is about pretending to put a fix on a problem instead of hitting it head on. And "the pit folk" have sweet FA too do with wheather bsl will be removed , it will never happen in this country and it will only get worse. but when other dogs get added[which they will] as soon as "Mother England" decides it needs an update, will the people that are newly affected by it do anything? nope. besides whinge and cry and go on about how its the "pit folks" who have made it happen for everyone they will do jack. and if you think it wont get worse think again, it really wasnt that long ago , that the Presa[canary dog ] was added, and they dont even exist here.

Janba, your right but when it comes to crossbreeds it should only be classed as that, a crossbreed, not an assumption of what it is thought to look like or be. ninety % of mongrels are just that mongrels and have probly more breeds in them than what they look like. unless you can sit their and say" its sire was a purebred heeler and its dam was a purebred, kelpie" its really just speculation , or an educated guess at best, which would contribute to scattered results and untrue ones aswell.

Our bsl laws are simply based on what the commonwealth as a whole will ban. if another breed is added onto the commonwealths dangerous dog list it goes on ours. Out of all the breeds on the list the Apbt is the only one known to have any real presence in Australia. i am in no way surprised The Apbt is not on the list but you may see other people on here that will twist those stats around, some people class the American Staff, as a show Apbt.[maybee viable 60 years ago but not now] others may say that amoungst the staff x their wouldve been APBT. others will say the crossbred dogs would have been some Apbts. regardless, thanks for adding it up, nice to see it down in numbers instead of people just claiming without the proof!

doit4thedogs, i wouldnt expect you to know what i was going on about , you never do, you simply disect words out of peoples posts , and comment on those words only not the overall meaning of the post. and it wasnt just a debate between you and Rotiadora, even you had stated on the previous page that this is infact a public forum for all so it was for everyone to read and to comment on, not just you and someone else. [you may have forgot that post but it was the page before your private debate.] the truth of the matter is you openly come and make outlandish statements about something you have clearly just an opinion, i have seen no positive posts by you ever in regards to this thread or any bsl type threads whatsoever besides bashing the owners of these dogs, you dont want to help you simply want to go fishing , throw a few claims out point a few fingers then wait for someone to take the bait. i do respect the laws of our nation , if you would go back and read or even remember, my situation i have followed the rules and laws in every way, and i am suffering because my dog has had to stay back where she is registered, because queensland will not take new registrations regardless of the track record of the owner or the dog, or any history of training the dog has. this is something you would know nothing about...................ever. so as you maybee fully entiteled to your opinion, until you come and walk a mile in my shoes or someone else's that has been a victim, because their dog "looked the part" or had to move or get their family pet pts because of its breed, you will never fully understand it. But i would never expect you too the only thing you seem to bring to the argument, is the same thing post after post, thread after thread. bashing the owners over and over again will get you nowhere , ive said it before but i will repeat myself for the sake of it, all you seem to say is that the owners have got to take responsibility for themselves and they do nothing about it. the owners you are talking about would not be in such a forum ,just incase you havent figured that out on your own! those kind of owners are too busy picking out a studded collar or shopping for a new chain for their dogs. the owners that are here from what i can gather ARE of the desirable kind in fact we are no different to any other dog owner who is responsible, we are actually more responsible because we have to be, our dogs lives at stake if we make an error. so start bringing something else to the table besides the same thing weve all read before, if you think you are getting sick of it , just imagine how we feel? and if you want to keep harping on about it , go for it but come up with some constructive points instead of saying whats been said. and something i would like your opinions on: How would we , the responsible owners make a difference on the irresponsible ones? what do you think we could do? how can you make them listen?

The thing is, there are those of us out there who do the right thing and follow the rules and have the best outcome for both us and the breed in mind. Just because there are high numbers of iresponsible owners out there, it doesnt mean that we the good ones dont exist. the problem will allways be there in my eyes but what alot of non owners are doing is saying they are not generalising but when it suits them they do, by saying the same thing over and over again and getting the same response, you say its all about the owners but then when we agree about it and say it about responsible ownership , our other words get twisted around and you say we claim our dogs to be harmless. as the post says above, you are picking on what you class as the faults the poster has made. highly unfair in my eyes. just because we dont sit there and highlight the negative points in owning one of these dogs doesnt mean we are denying they exist. why highlight the negative parts of the breed? all you would do is jump straight back on us and say how "now your addmiting the dogs are dangerous". i also dont see the points in making a statement so negative about my chosen breed when there are way more positive aspects to owning one. Did you seriously think we would own such an animal if the bad points were to outweigh the good? i dont think so it would just be ludicrus. And yes you know i do totally understand that some people do get sick of the same old arguments, but guess what unless youve got something better to bring to the table there always gonna be there. so instead of doing what has been done, think out of the circle a little. or is as far as your opinions go just your keyboard? if you feel like your going around in circles, think about what other things you can do, the main issue here isnt APBT owners it is the fact that as what is supposed to be a free country, we are being told what breeds of dog we can or cant own. i would like to have my son or daughter to be able to have a free choice of what breed they decide on wheather it be a border collie or a presa canario. What about the fact that slowly the American Staffordshire is now creeping into the firing line because fifty years ago you can relate it to the working pitbull? Once they have been added who is next? American Bulldogs? if you think the list wont grow you are fooling yourself, its a trend that has followed with most bsl countries, to add a few more when they realise that their "quick fix" has infact done nothing. i really do think that if we work out away to stop firing biased opinions around and then being defensive about what you think is right or wrong. and if you get sick of getting the same idiotic answers to your suggestions, you have a choice to let that "idiot" bother you or not. i will say that there is another "idiot" sitting right here that wants your opinions and actually values them, because without them i dont think this will ever move forward. rant over.

stacy, you are 100% right on the your DA comments kimba was very DA when i got her but with alot of hard work the problem has been pretty much solved. She is has been trained in what i think are the correct ways with this breed [positive renforcment] and as much as i wouldnt trust her with some dominant type dogs she will socialise well with others in what i would call a controlled environment, if i am with her she will listen because it will always get her what she wants by listening to me[praise and treats!] but i would not let her run riot with strange dogs on her own, which goes without saying i guess its just common sence with this breed. spot on for everything else youve said too.

Alpha , i do remember that from the other thread, but thanks for posting again. i think the people from the APBT club of Australia, have been flat out copping it from left right and centre when they take a stand as they have in the past and i am only speculating but i get the impression that because they are a club that soley operates around Apbt's over time they started to attract the wrong people, they used to have a decent forum on their website but it was eventually taken off of their website as it was slowly overrun by "undersirable types" who would argue about the better fighting bloodlines and such, which obviously put a negative light on the club so it was removed. I am sure they have had in older times numerous shows and family days where the general public were invited to come"pat a pitbull" and weight pulling events would be on and a proper show ring with international judges. i was never able to attend any of the shows as i lived over ten hours away but from what i gather they were very well run and incident free. i think that the way the laws have got tighter the people behind the club as one of the only real spokespeople for the breed in our country have been harrased and i would assume have had alot of pressure put on them from media types and i know that they have had some of their own photos of their own dogs played with and put in attack type stories in the papers. I think until recently they have been pretty quiet but as i live in Queensland ,i am unsure of any local stuff they may still do in Victoria. As i dont realy know much about the Gsd restrictions from when they were around it interests me greatly how it was overcome. i think maybee its time i contacted the club again and try to find out where they currently stand on their shows [if they are still having them] and renew my membership as i let it slide awhile ago. I think activities like you are suggesting would def help contribute to a solution to the problem , i would say a large part of setting them up would be council approval of such an event, with widespread seperate council bans and restrictions i could just about bet on insurance being nearly impossible to get this day and age, as with most councils being against i cant see them being ecstatic about ten or more Apbt's running around in a public place with children about, but it def is an option. thanks for your input. Lo Pan , i am aware that there has been similar threads on the past as even in the short time i have been on here i have participated in a couple, but it doesnt mean you shouldnt take the time on this one! you do have quite a bit to say on the bsl and apbt related threads and i would be thankfull if you chose to participate on this one. As alot of the other threads have turned into a bit of a s----fight for both parties i wanted to keep this one positive and moving forward, without going into a three page circle of points. But at this rate unless we get some more opinions we will be lucky to get to two pages!

Thanks Gecko, As an owner of one of these wonderfull dogs i find public perception a big part of my ownership as the public perception at this stage is terrible, so it has always been a large part to walk my dog[once trained] out in public and to show people of all sorts that they are simply not mindless killing machines which sadly is the general opinion. And i am happy to say i do think ive contributed to make a difference somewhat, in one way with almost 90% of my friends started to think i had changed to having bad judgement on this one choice to own a pitbull. they were pretty easy to sway as they would see the dog in all stages of development and also see her in all environments and to see how trainable they really are. in another way as much as it was a battle for a while living in a neighbourhood with lots of families ect, for a good six months people would be wary or cross the road or even funnier would come up and ask for a pat as they simply didnt know what a real apbt looked like , they thought they were huge 60kg dogs not a short athletic 21kg dog! after a while the people would realise that there was no threat at all an happily bring there youngsters over for a chat and a pat, and i would always get a comment on her colour[ she is a "buckskin rednose"] and how exitic she looked lol. within a year or so she was a much loved part of the neighbour hood and i was sad when i had to leave it , and so were some of the people i would see on the street and their kids. i would like to say that that had to make some difference at some level, in a way where people werent under a false impression that all pitbulls were harmless but that alot of dogs are simply reflections of their owners and not a reflection of the breed itself. and i think i could say that when an incident would happen or someone would comment on the breed these are the people who may stop someone short and relay the experience they have had with "the pitbull that lived up the road". so to me the public perception is important as A; to a level it reflects opinions to me as an owner. b; it can be changed with nothing more than the work that everyone as a dog owner should put into their dog. the most popular thing for all the kids and parents alike is her energy, even when sitting she tap dances her front feet and the kids just love it when they ask her to speak and she does so happily with a little 360 spin thrown in for a laugh.

come on people , lets get the ball rolling , instead of a neg thread lets fire some ideas and suggestions around!

I am seeing a pattern of threads on apbts all eventually going in the same direction, and some finger pointing, and then defensivness fired back in return [i am guilty of it]. i would like to start this thread looking to have a positive outlook on what we can do as apbt owners , bsl is obviously here to stay for at least awhile but what things can we do to shine a better light on our dogs and the breed itself? anyones opinion is welcome and as long as we keep it positive im looking forward to some good ideas. i would like everyones opinion on these topics; 1; education 2; responsibility 3; public perception 4; attack prevention 5; training/socialisation 6; containment this is just a rough guide and please add anything else you deem as important.[im kind of in a hurry but wanted to get this started] thanks , Chrisjc

doitforthedogs, i seem to think you just look for apbt owners to pick on with your far superior methodoligies, and ethics when it comes to these dogs yet you dont seem to know much about them other than the standard stuff that anyone can find off the net. i would ask you to read back over all of my posts, when it comes to this breed and explain to me what makes me a bad owner . your last post on the previous page seem to indicate that there is the first post of someone who isnt denying the true nature of the breed. disect anything i have wrote and explain to me what i have done wrong as an apbt owner, you seem to know everything about them so im thinking you could tell me where ive gone so awfully wrong? or maybee you could finally elaborate on what experience that you have that is relevant with owning one or maybee another restricted breed? i would think that instead of contributing your overly biased opinions to the pitbull threadsyou may start to contribute to helping the situation instead of sitting on the fence and letting everyone who owns one know your opinions of the owners of the breed. im sorry to inform you but i would say for the most part the owners of apbt's that are on this site are of the desirable variety and the last thing we need is someone who doesnt own one tell us something we allready have been aware of before you or this site were around. i think you would have alot of positives you could contribute to these threads, but telling us something we already know im thinking must make you feel like your hitting your head against the wall. why not work together to come up with ideals and solutions instead of finger pointing.

sheesh, try walking a pitbull then, even my well mannered healing apbt sends people running of all races! and it sometimes seems like she knows it too,the disapointment on her face when someone avoids a walkby pat is like shes been scarred for life! but on a serious note , it would come down to the individual, person more than a generalisation. we had a chinese butcher that used to supplie some of our chicken at my old pet food shop and all he would ever do is come out to the car pat kimba and then joke to me about how good she would taste on the spit! He would always give her the fattiest bits of chicken skin he could find and tell me how i needed to fatten her up for when we got together for a bbq! hilarious, and obviously she looked forward to seeing him every day and him her too i think, i wonder wheather she would have the same attitude if she knew what we would be talking about while she was scoffing a couple of necks down!

Sbt, i wouldnt want my dog seen as anything else anyway, and hanging papers certainly isnt something i would do either i frown upon it. i just wanted you to clarify your opinion on the dual registy thing and you have so thank you as ive said before i think the dual registry thing is a joke and if someone really wants to have a dog that is a "legal pitbull" i think they are allready owning the dog for the wrong reasons, and there are plenty of great Staffords and AST's out there aswell , but then im not sure if any of those breeds are the'right' breed for such a person. there are better apbts, bred legally in Australia, thatr are of alot higher quality than any of those dual registered dogs, and also alot better ast's aswell. i cant see it being to long before some idiot starts importing American Bullies , over here or even worse starts breeding them from Australian stock. that would really throw a spanner in the works. if i wanted to see a hippo i would just go to the zoo.

There are lots of people, out there that are unethical breeders, that are of that club. i know of at least one who is renowned amongst the community who is obviously using steriods on their dogs, though there is no proof that i have. almost every breeder that knows of them thinks the same, yet nothing is done to investigate it. which one of the two is more unethical? And i believe on another thread there is a post on there being dual registered dogs in australia. I have been on Holidays for a week and this thread has turned into the same threads as the fifty before it re: apbts, lots of bickering back and forth and a lot of circle work. people who are supposed to be "anti bsl" and yet still seem to be blaming apbt owners and the dogs. we all know the problem so why state the obvious? its all been said before. everyone here is mostly of the same opinion yet not of the exact degree, so why go in circles? sbt where are you putting the blame then? on the registry that accepts ast as apbts? truth is both registries are to blame. dual registered dogs are openly advertised in the states, so if they dont want it cancel the dual dogs registration? would that be something that would be in the to hard basket? personally i wouldnt by a dog that was apbt without ADBA papers. at least i know where it has come from. i can trace my dogs ped back to past a hundred years.

Amy , i live in brisbane, but due to the laws in qld, my dog is in south australia, my home state. i had a choice to bring her or leave her and as i have done the right thing in regards to following restrictions ect in sa, i thought it would be reversing all my hard work to break the laws when moving to qld. it wasnt a decision that was taken lightly but was the right thing to do, my apbt is living with my two best friends who are both miners, so because they are on alternate shifts she has someone with her pretty much twenty four hours a day, which im sure she loves!

well yes you would be flaunting the law but that would be depending on where you live. NT and ACT it is perfectly legal to buy, breed ,sell or whatever , but yes i doubt that everyone sold would come from these places. apbt and ast are not the same dog in my opinion, from my experience, when shopping for dogs i was looking at both, and i know alot of amstaff breeders through my old business. i feel that the natural traits in an amstaff are very different to the ones that are obvious in an apbt. i chose the apbt because i found them to be better looking more athletic, and seem to be alot goofier, funloving. that is my opinion obviously and you will have your own. i also got a bit fed up with the fact that when i was looking at show bred amstaffs 90% of the people i was looking at litters were all in the local state asossiation and were all "friends" with each other. once i got into their place on my own the knives would fly and whatever they could do to convince me to buy a pup from them they would do even if it meant badmouthing their so called friends. not a comfy environment imho. i travelled interstate and started researching some apbt dogs, and found them to be easier to get along with and, didnt seem to be peddeling the dogs they had. none had pups availible, but i eventually got one from a hunter. in all my years around them i have come across one that was protective, and im sceptical to believe that it was natural and i would be more inclined to think it was from mistreatment than breeding or breed. my first one would maybee be protective of my partner , when walking her, but i think it may have been the handler and not the dog but we never got to the stage to see if she was. my dogs have never protected me or shown signs of it ever , maybee because we have a very obvious pack and they may think i dont need it? i am also what could be portayed and has been by some of my friends, as "anal" about my dogs and how i want them to be portrayed, but i bought into the breed and i feel that it has to be done. i would never feel that i would be fooling myself into thinking that they are a harmless breed and they are not to be taken lightly, but then again neither should alot of other breeds. Amy i see you own a neo, they too are a breed where the owner should be fully aware of what they are like compared to other dogs, and even their differences with other mastiff breeds, in the wrong hands they can be a nervy dog, but in the right hands they can be a very loving family pet as you would know. and as a note; to any amstaff breeders that read this, i am only reflecting on what was my personal experience when i was buying a dog. and i hope this post is not taken as me slagging amstaffs off because i am not, they are in my top three breeds of dog , i just thought the way the people i dealt with couldve been a bit more mature about it.

of course you shouldnt promote them as a nanny dog, but it doesnt hurt to have people state that it is part of their history, if people think its ok to slag off the fighting history and use it as a negative then i think its fine to use the nanny dog history, as a positive. its true but its also irrelevant. at the end of the day the people that are the cause of the problems we have are not buying these dogs because theyare a "nanny" dog they are buying them as an ill informed iresponsible owner, plain and simple. and one thing i dont get is the pig hunters that cross them with a breed whos history is ha and expect to not have problems. real intelegent. there are so many other breeds out there better suited to hunting than these dogs. i find it highly funny that the same people who have claimed "i know about these dogs because i once saw a mean one" or "i watch the news" are the same people that will jump on the banning band wagon like they actually know what they are talking about. the key is prospective dog owners doing their research and buying a dog that suits them and then understanding the breed, wheather its a poodle or a pitbull. i have been around apbt's for long enough to have a REAL opinion on them, not overshadowed by some ill informed reporter who wouldnt know the difference between a pitbull and an en english mastiff. in fifteen years i have never had an incident caused by a apbt, but i have witnessed many owned by other breeds and one thing always shone through.....the owner was an idiot.

if you saw my dog the last thing you would think of her is being high strung or a fence biter. but that is your experience and its not like your the only person who would say it. she would also show any would be thief where all my valuble stuff is, in exchange for a pat, then hold the door open for you with her wagging tail while you put my plasma in the car.