chrisjc

That certainly does not take any responsibility off the owner. If that is the case then it should fall more on the owner for the lack of containing an obviously DA dog or worse HA dog.

For starters, if these dogs were mine this wouldnt have happened at all. Yes i do agree that they would have to get a dirt nap, and very quickly.

Two doggies, my post wasnt about trying to single out a specific breed maybee you should read into it a little less, if you knew anything about these types of attacks you would know that the wrong breed is generally named to get news headlines. I was just pointing out that even now there are mixed answers after the third instant of reporting, and the fact that you think because the owner claimed them to be pitbulls is laughable. As an APBT owner for over a decade people of all types have no idea what an apbt is, over half the people who claim to have APBT or "pitties" in this country infact have a rotten x breed of mastiff and apbt of staff or any other random bull breed mix. Something i obviously know about and you obviously do not. Breed is irellavent but i still had a point to make. The owners should be banned from owning dogs and heavily fined. Lucky that this time there was a male adult to help and cop the brunt instead of the rest of this poor young family, i wish you a speedy recovery.

Latest i have seen on this is the dogs look nothing like an APBT or AmstaffX as reported. Waiting to see proof but the report i heard from a bystander who knows their dogs reports them as a big mastiff x type dog. Could be any mix .

I have on another site, a link to the entire incident report about this whole ting, i will not post it unless requested as it was very graphic in detail , i am a pretty ard tempered person but it honestly shook me up to read it all. And to be honest i did feel extremely bad for the man that did the task once i read it. No excuse but at the same time the description is enough to let you realise he is only human he did not want to do this and he was slightly desensitised to doing it, he had actualy been told he had PTSD from a previous incident, it realy made me think the previous exposure set him up to look at the as stock but his relationship with the dogs could not be ignored. It would be the same type of stress as going to war i think the doctor had said. If any members would like to see this either pm me it is kind of detailed and dont want to break any site rules..

A breed assesment would be completely useless and would cause more court cases like the Tango case. There are Hundreds of dogs that are neither Stafford nor APBT that would fail any assesment, and there are many staffords that could easily pass as an apbt, and the other way round. Same goes for the Amstaff. This is ever present in the UK these days as they still tend to have the working line staffords that have nothing to do with any KC. They could easily be passed as a small apbt with a poor assesment. The better way would be for people to all get on board trying too prevent all this from day one instead of screaming for help when it is their beloved breed under the spotlight. Nevermind the stereotypical owners worry more about how it will affect the decent owners and your own breed. Thats the real funny thing about alot of us responsible owners of the APBT, we want ALL bsl abolished not just our dogs and we woulld help fight for ALL breeds not just our own.

Funny how when the shoes on the other foot the panics and cries for help start. In the eyes of the Australian Government the Stafford allready is a "pitbull" , it certainly is not a APBT, but its a "pitbull type" that fits into the same "pitbull genre as the APBT, amstaff and the boxer. I will let you in on something that as a stafford owner and breeder you should allready know. In my old council area there is a section of housing that fits into the lowest form of income earners and unemployed, unfortunately a fair portion of the stereotypes who tend to own these breeds for the wrong reasons. A council AC officer would shop in my shop almost daily, and he knew his dogs and he loved them. They would get at least 30 "loose pitbull" call ins a week, over 6 out of 10 were escaped staffies. Poorly bred staffies but staffies non the less , two would be bull terriers and the other two would be APBT or an APBT cross of some kind. If in the eyes of joe public its a pitbull, its a pitbull, even when its not close.

That would be all speculation. They wouldnt need new lines realy there were a very broad amount of dogs that were imported to Aus when it was still legal. As they are banned for importation that would make it ilegal . And NZ has pretty much the same lines of us anyway. Look at it this way there has allways been rumours but i am yet to see anyone with any proof of it. Personally if i was to live there and decide breeding was an option i dont think there would be an issue finding a new outcross NT and ACT are obviously pretty open about it and it wouldnt be too hard to find what you are after.

There are loopholes everywhere if you dont want to break any laws. It is still legal to travel to act and buy one then take it home to a bsl state if you need. Obviously depending on what your local councils rules on the breed are. UKC still has Amstaffs that are dual registered as APBT in the usa, dont tell the amstaff breeders that they hate to admit that the dog that set the breed standard was in fact an APBT a dog from the Colby family named Primo. They all say that is not true but you can easily find out, lou colby is still alive breeding horses and apbt, he has never bred or sold an amstaff ever. Most breed fanciers are interested in their dogs history and own overseas regd dogs either ADBA, my dog is NZ regd. Its just a peice of paper but paper hangers abuse it so i guess you would have to be carefull. Take into account that 90% of the puppy peddlers in this breed in Aus wouldnt know the first thing about the ped of the dog nor would they care, they are breeding for a blackmarket dog that fetches dollars and that is where it ends for them, they are the first to drop the line names but are the last to know anything about the lines. Also alot of the dogs here are from the first imported dogs that were still legally imported before the bsl kicked in. Look at it this way where there is a will there is a way and if you have the money and want it bad enough you can make it happen. All you need is the right paper work, and a pass for rabies. The funny thing is the people that are realy going to be hurt by the laws are the ones who realy love the breed and want them to stay but its a battle we will never win mainly as a commonwealth we will allways follow suit and the pitbull problem wins too many votes than it loses with polys. The sellers of the black market dogs are just in it for the bucks, there are obviously a few people who are still breeding the breed they love but the dogs are going to safe family homes, friends or staying with the breeders, its just the few that unfortunatly get out of those hands and into the morons who flaunt the dogs and put high price tags up to 2k a pup. Its easy to tell these people as the dogs are not in the 30 pound to 50 pound range as the peddlers are not breeding selectivly they sell and breed any old dog with a red nose and couldnt care less about the temperement of the dogs as long as they line their pockets. I am sure it gets more in depth than this but thats the way i have read it and i have owned quite a few over the years, and have had lots to do with other owners over the years, but i will say this, the way it is now the laws are pretty much working, the fanciers of the breed have been scared into hiding many no longer own the breed or dont make it known at all any more. I use to know many know i barely know a few owners. Even sadder that if the breed were not thrown into the black market they wouldnt be anywhere near as opular with that culture and they would be easier to regulate. I am certainly sure that no matter what the laws are they are here to stay at some level and if the real lovers want to keep them they will find a way to and the quiker the ilegal trade stops of the breed the better off the breed will be over here. At least then the owners that have them want to have them and are not just using them as a status symbol or simply a means to line the wallet.

You are 100% right, but the problem is the "type" name is so close to the Apbt name, joe public sees them as the same dog, it is also the problem that has got worse in America because there are more "new" breeds that are using the name "pitbull" like the American bully people, they are happy to call their dogs APBT until they find out the owner doesnt want one then they are just as happy to say it isnt an apbt and call it a bully or a xxxlbully or any one of the other names they use to peddle their wares. rep, the problem with also is joe public doesnt care if the amstaff was first reg in 1936 they still think if they came from apbt they still are even after such along time. sure you look in a six or eight gen ped you are not going to see any apbt which is what matters realy but go further and of course you will find apbt in the history because the apbt is where every single amstaff came from at one stage. the average person looks at my dog and questions the breed, when i say she is an Apbt, most people tell me to feed her more or ask if she never grew properly. Truth is 35pounds is a pretty typical size for a purebred Apbt female. the public are under the impression that a pitbull should be 90 pounds plus which is beyond a joke to any Apbt owner.

doit4thedogs. haters gonna hate. and youve allways been a hater.

The fella probly hit the dog in its sleep or while its attention was on the ball in his right hand. As much as i am fully against any use of APBT's as gaurd or pp dogs, people do use them and they are generally pretty good at it when trained the right way. I find it very hard to beleive he could land a punch on a full flight Apbt with the intent to bite him they dont do anything half arsed, boxer or no boxer my moneys on the dog to land at least one decent bite if it realy wanted too!

The oversized American dogs you see are generally "American Bullies" a breed started from the APBT crossed into AST, they are a show breed and that only and in shows dogs get prizes for "biggest head" and "shortest dog" we do not have them here thankfully[that are called american bullies] i think they would help add to the confusion joe public has identifying the two other breeds as it is.It is unfortunate that the bully breeders are still passing their dogs off as apbt's when it suits them to unknowing people who quickly find out that a pure APBT doesnt come in blue nor do they weigh 90 pounds with a build like a Bulldog. Sorry for the thread jack, hope this clears things up.

Hi Nannas, I'll be the devil's advocate here, but perhaps they will say BSL is working because there are no APBTs on the list - that banning them has succeeded they are no longer around (would be interested to find out what the unknown breeds are). that wouldnt make you the devils advocate at all, it would mean that you may be reading into the stats the way that you see fit. my stance on it is the fact that when have they ever been high on the list if in the list at all? they have never been a dog that allways shows up on such stats. with your way of thinking we could also say that bsl is working because there are no presas on the list either, or tosas and we know that would be silly!

this thread has been hilarious, Ima barka, you need to pull your head out of where its stuck and start to realise that people like me[ i actually put my hand up when you asked about APBT owners that tick the box] couldnt really give a rats about anyone with the attitude you have. wouldnt suprise me if you had other handles and just dont have the balls to say it under your normal one. wimpy people do that all the time. i have owned my chosen breed for ten plus years, and if i have to move to another state to legally own my next i will. hell weve lived with the laws and abided by them for years and years, and ive managed ok without being fit into a label which you seem to lump every single apbt owner in. i hope you get a taste of the laws effecting you at some stage to see how youd handle it. you have been looking for an argument since post one you made and you have tried and tried to push more buttons. for once instead of buying into the bullshit you say is your gospel , in going to sitback, laugh AT YOU and pat my dog eating child killing machine gun on a leash thats sound asleep next to me right now wriggling her feet and whimpering as she dreams. then when she wakes up il take her for a walk. its more productive than arguing with a moron.

jp colbys records go as far back as 1805, from there on every dog bred by the family has been fully recorded. with a registry? no, but recorded nonetheless, lou still has hand written peds from this era and printed peds from 1825. just a bit of useless info you can read it how you please.

ima barka, why take that aproach? how about you work with the APBT owners who want to make a difference. personally the amstaff was doomed here before the incidents of the last three months were even dreamed up. just look at the trading post and the paper ads advertising them. just remember Colbys "primo" was an APBT and so were the other five dogs used to develop the standard. so in your form of thinking we can say the amstaff is a breed started by mutts. which would make them mutts. now you are the one who can argue till your blue in the face.

what idiots do to cheat the law is up to them just because a council reg says amataff instead of pitbull doesnt mean they are the same dog. too some people an amstaff is the same as a pitbull, as lopan said amstaffs were from the pitbull gene pool. but pitbulls are not amstaffs.. thats simple enough i think ive written my opinion on this subject about twenty times. ADBA, American dog breeders assos. AST, American staff terrier. APBT, American pit bull terrier. just to confuse you a bit more, my dogs ped doesnt have a single AST in it. Some of the dogs in my dogs ped are in everysingle AST in existence if you can look back far enough, but 120years is a long time in dog years.

it realy is a shame that some people dont realise the effect hard drugs have on their brain. look far enough back into my pedigree papers, and you will find that i have a good forty years of purebred APBTs before the AST was even thought about. If thats not real i would like you to tell me what is.

im pretty sure its not against the law to import pastry into our country. im also pretty sure we have plenty of pastry here, and as far as i know we have no attacks or fatalities in our country from pastry ever. not one in history. so we are all safe from the killer pastry. just a little useless info for you. the name Fila[not filo just incase your confused] can be loosly translated in the country of origin of these dogs, means "to hold" there job was to stop and hold there quarry not mercilessly maul them like you are making it out to be. there were tons of filas brought into the country and the NT is proof of it. they have been crossed with great danes to shorten the jowl length so when hunting pigs they wouldnt fang themselves as much. if you actually use that google thingy on your computer you may be able to find that with enough search attemps you can readily find fila cross breeds in australia and they look just like a fila to me. i found two ads in less than a ten minute period that were 75% fila in their breedings. they are here and they have been here all along. and guess what? they have flown under the radar this long without killing or knowingly maiming anyone. anyone who does any real research on the breed will know they are a pretty easy dog to pick out of a line up as parts of their body is very different to any other breed for example the back end. alltough im sure you would know all of this since your our counties leading filo expert.

and another good book with plenty of info on both breeds is "the ultimate american pit bull terrier" by Jacqueline O'neil. i have to go through my collection to get a list of my others but if you would like them let me know im happy to send you a list.

just to jackie stay away from any book written by Dr Carl Semanic, he is a moron and his books are full of pretty much his own opinion and alot of it is crap. the Richard .f. stratton books are very good if you look at them with an open mind and will help you understand the history and the reason the dogs they are today. the stratton books are written in a "pro fighting" perspective so take them how you please discard what you think is bad out of them an keep in your head the good. they are great books if you dont let the perspective cloud your judgement. Dianne Jessup has a book with excellent Quality pictures and is taken from her experiences saving dogs from fighting busts, she has pitbulls in sar work therapy dogs and lots of pitbulls you see in the movies in the 80's and 90's were her dogs.the name of the book is "the working pitbull". another great book is written by Louis B Colby, and its name is Colbys Book Of the American Pitt Bull Terrier. it is written on the history of the dogs in America and louis colbys family were one of the first to import, the dog, and the Colby dogs were the standard chosen for the American staff, main dog being colbys primo. it even has the origional standard for the amstaff written by hand from the authours father in 1935. it is a pretty hard book to get now, and i would love to say i would put it out for lend but it is a signed copy that i gaurd with my life! look up the colby website for a copy Louis still sells the book thru his website. he is also a very warm man who is happy to chat about his perspective on the history of the breeds if you can get hold of him. i hope this helps you a bit, if you want any more info feel free to pm me .

this will sound stupid to some and normal to those who understand the breed, but i would take a dog from a dogfighter anyday over any backyard bred apbt. history has shown and proved thet they are more stable around people than some druggy round the corner with "pitties" bred for looking after the locals plants. a pretty high % of the vick dogs who were in decent health have been rehomed with no troubles at all and there are plenty that are allready therapy dogs or on their way there. depending on which humainiac group helps in these raids will depend on wheather all dogs found in raids are kept alive or none are. there are hundreds and hundreds of great hero pitbull stories out there but they are warm and fuzzy stories and warm and fuzzy wont sell papers. such a shame.

just for the record, when i was mauled as a four year old, my father swiftly drove home after my operation was over, took one of his guns and went and shot the dog. I am now thirty one. i dont think the dog should have been shot, i think my dad and the owner should be, they are the ones who didnt take full responsibility of what was theirs. the dog paid with its life for doing what dogs do protecting its own food, it hadnt been around alot of young kids and didnt know any better. i have allways felt in some way that beloved family pet paid with its life simply to make someone else falsly think the problem had been taken care of. the thing thats really getting to me these days is parents are making parts of their homes like forts for the protection of their child, ie, gates 9in every doorway, rubber edges on every corner, plastic covers over every power point inside the house there is no stone left unturned, yet once out in the public the child can run amok at just about their own accord and harrass the neigbours cats, dogs, walk behind reversing cars, run up to strange dogs on the street, and even stroll out of the front yard with not a soul noticing for minutes at a time. i was recently visiting a friends place for a bbq, and was walking outside to the vehicle to get some supplies, on reaching the street i noticed a child no older than three, waddling along the footpath with no one in tow. i crossed the road grabbed the kids hand and went back to my friends to grab some help. it was a further ten whole minutes before the mother of the child realised her little one had done the bolt and she only realised because one of us knocked on her front door. potential for disaster 101, what if there was a stray dog roaming up the street at the same time , which is not unheard of at all. people need to take more notice of all their property at all times.

i am sorry about your horses. at the end of the day this happens to horses every day in this country and others, and one thing rings true.... the dogs were not contained properly. i can fully understand your point of veiw when you are a victim, but that would mean we should kill and ban all working dogs in the country, as there are a very high % of lambs , full grown sheep, and other livestock that are attacked killed or maimed every single day, a hell of alot more by farm dogs than apbt. i hope your horse has recovered swiftly.