bet hargreaves

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS If I could answer Jed's Post,where she mentioned that the Cavalier Buying Public should not have been made aware about the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Our Cavaliers , I think that the Folk Buying Cavaliers should be being made aware about those Problems, then it will follow on that the Question is being asked of Cavalier Breeders ,are they Health Testing and following the Cavalier Breeding Recomendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and if the Cavalier Breeders are not doing this, then any-one wanting a Cavalier should go to a Cavalier Breeder who is doing this.What else can be being done at the moment.? Bet Hargreaves HOW DARE YOU MISQUOTE ME? CAN'T YOU READ? IF YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT I SAID, I THINK YOU NEED GO BACK TO GRADE 2 - AND LEARN COMPREHENSION. BUT YOU DID UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE. YOU ARE SIMPLY CAUSING TROUBLE AGAIN. YOU CONSTANTLY VISIT FORUMS AND LIST, MISQUOTING INFORMATION UNTIL YOU ARE BANISHED AND THEN YOU CHOOSE ANOTHER ONE. YOUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT BAN THE BREEDING OF CAVALIERS, AND I REALLY DO THINK YOU MAY ACHIEVE IT. It's always been too easy to sit on the sidelines and ridicule those doing the work, without contributing one iota to it. It's easy to criticise, Bet, but it is more difficult to do it - and do it right. I don't see any evidence anywhere that you have done anything good for the breed at all. All you do is try to bring it down. Incidentally, you didn't answer my post, all you did s misquote me. Not good enough, try to bring a modicom of commonsense and worthwhile information to the discussion, will you?? The "latest news" is either the old news rehashed to suit your machievellian design, or more up to date news, skewed your way. Yep, Delcara is correct, we have been around the SM mulberry bush so many times that many of us are giddy. Bottom line is that no one has much idea why SM happens, no one has much idea how to prevent it, breeders are doing all they can to provide dogs for scanning so that the way forward may be clearer - at their expense. People like Bet Hargraves sit on the sidelines, contribute nothing, but snivel and complain. Jaxxs Buddy Realistically, consider the expense. Breeders in Sydney can take advantage of the scanner which the Cavalier breeders obtained so dogs in Aus could be scanned (Please note, Bet Hargraves, feel free to contribute some funds towards the purchase of the next one? They aren't cheap, and as you seem to have so much to say, I am sure you would like to help us out here. We'd all be grateful.). However, for anyone not near Sydney, you can say min of $1500, max of $2000. Use $2000 as the figure - pretty well everyone charges about $1400, getting yourself and dog to Sydney, accommodation, blah blah. $2000. So $4000 to scan the parents. 4 pups, wait until they are 2.5 yrs, scan them, $8000. So you have coughed up $12000 just in scans. Looks good - except - if as LizT says, scans dont indicate anything. $12,000 is a lot of money to spend - and still not be able to guarantee that if you breed the parents, or the pups, they will not throw SM. You couldn't even guarantee that the pups would continue to be A past 2.5 years. And you are currently paying to have all you dogs heart scanned annually by a specialist cardiologist. You have had the patellas of the parents checked, and x rayed if your vet wasn't 100% confident with his examination. This is a minority disease in this country amongst registered cavaliers. Yes, it does crop up occasionally, but so does mega oesophagus, non hereditary heart murmurs, leukemia, and auto immune diseases which have no hereditary component. Now, Bet, you can scuttle whereever you wish, and tell everyone and anyone you like that I am against MRI-ing. Good luck to you. As this was brought to the public domain, I think it is much better if "the public" and dog owners are given correct information. jed i find this post of yours offensive and unnecessary. That's OK Jaxx's Buddy. You are not the one who was misquoted and made to look like someone uncaring, when I was actually trying to explain the problem. I am sorry you are offended, but it is not your integrity which is in question and none of my last post was directed to you. Everyone skirts around everything because they don't want to be labelled as Bet Hargraves just labelled me. I don't care much, but I am am not allowing it to pass Thanks BB - yep, we would have all them done if it cost $100 --- and probably none of us would object too much to the cost of scanning if there was a definitive answer coming from it. There is not. My cav dog, from lines where I can find no dog with SM, who has no syrinxes and has never thrown a pup with SM could do so in any future litter. It is something all breeders have to face Thanks Delcara :D As Delcara I am exiting this thread. It's a shame that attempts to help people understand are met with the sort of rubbish which went on here. If you want to learn, try the Cavalier websites as a beginning, and go from there. Don't think that you will learn from Bet Hargraves, you wont, but feel free pm Delcara if you like, or me. Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. I have just spoken with Two Geneticists here in Britain to-day, and been told by both of them, that until the SM and MVD Genes are found ,the best way forward for the Cavalier Breed in the Fight against their SM and MVD Problems, is for Cavalier Breeders to follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,Not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of Age and to also know the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5. Bet Hargreaves

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS If I could answer Jed's Post,where she mentioned that the Cavalier Buying Public should not have been made aware about the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Our Cavaliers , I think that the Folk Buying Cavaliers should be being made aware about those Problems, then it will follow on that the Question is being asked of Cavalier Breeders ,are they Health Testing and following the Cavalier Breeding Recomendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and if the Cavalier Breeders are not doing this, then any-one wanting a Cavalier should go to a Cavalier Breeder who is doing this.What else can be being done at the moment.? Bet Hargreaves

hi LizT Unfortunately it is NOT a "once off". The experts say SM is "late onset". A scan is recommended at 2.5 yrs and then again after the age of 5. 12months is the minimum age for grading. Some breeders overseas are scanning at 12months, 2.5 years and then again at 5 years. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS. This is Great, what a Sensible Discussion this has turned into. I had not understood the Post about whether any A to A's had produced no SM Cavaliers, but I will try to get an answer to this. There is to be a Cavalier Seminar here in Britain on Saturday ,I will try and get some one to ask about this. Bet Hargreaves

Interesting. I noticed that you have been a member for a long time. You haven't posted much. I don't suppose being on here a long time or a short time makes you more or less experienced, and I don't much care that you have been breeding cavs longer than I have, if indeed you have. Half the world has been breeding cavs longer than I have. I don't actually see that as important, but you will not have been breeding dogs longer than I have. If you actually do breed cavs, I do hope that you have more knowledge than comes across in your posts. Perhaps it is simply your turn of phrase? Quite a few dogs have been scanned. There is a list of Aust dogs on the UK Cavalier club's website, but you no doubt knew that. So you can just phone up the owners and ask them. Internet forums are fabulous, you can write anything you like, impersonate the Queen of Sheba if you like, and sometimes, people believe you. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Some-body has just Posted about Looking at Cavalier Pedigrees for Information about the Ancestors of Cavaliers. Now Please don't argue with me , these are Facts I am Mentioning, this is about the Heart Problem in our Cavalier Breed,we lost 4 of our Cavaliers at 4, two at 7, and 8 years of age. Because of this ,I have collected Cavalier Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble for many years now ,and have passed them onto MVD Researchers at a Couple Of Universities here in Britain and to a University in Austria. This is to find out if there was a Link in MVD in those Cavalier Pedigrees. I will go back to the 1940's and the 1950's, FACTS .There were Cavaliers dying at young ages because of Heart Trouble, but some of the Cavalier Stud Dogs were being used ,and must have been passing on those MVD Genes, some of the Off-Springs of those Cavaliers were exported to Australia. I am not saying that those Exports had MVD ,but were they Carrying the MVD Genes. Because of what happened then, and Cavaliers being Bred from 1n the 1960's -70's- 80's probably were suffering from MVD Genes ,and it is a FACT that at CKCS SHOWS in 1983 ,the CLUB Cardiologist carried out Heart Surveys, and the Result was that the CKCS Club was warned about how Wide-Spread and Serious the MVD Problem was in our Cavaliers. The UK CKCS CLUB issued Recommended Breeding Guidelines for MVD in 1987. These are still not being Heeded by some Cavalier Breeders to-day. What this is leading up to is , are there now so many Cavalier Carriers of the MVD Genes around to-day , that at a Recent CKCS CLUB AGM ,it was said that 50% Cavaliers have a Murmur at 5-6 years of age, and this figure is no better than what it was 18 years ago,is this the reason. So does this mean that looking at Long Lived Cavaliers could be a bit of a Red Herring, could those Long Lived Cavaliers also be Carriers of the MVD Genes.? So for goodness sake, don't let the Cavaliers' SM Problem go the way their MVD Problem has gone, Health Test and follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations. I will only say that if you think this is because I am an A R Activist ,then I pity you ,I have loved the Cavalier Breed since we got Sweep in 1973 ,and he died at 4 years of age because of Heart Trouble,I started in the early 1980's to realize what a Serious Heart Problem our Cavalier Breed had,so let's have no more of Posting those A R Activists Insults about me. I am trying to save the Cavalier Breed from Suffering the Pain they have to-day from the Hideous SM Disease and MVD, by the only way I know how to do this. By making the Cavalier Buying Public aware about those Two Diseases Afflicting our Beloved Cavalier Breed,and telling them to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests and is following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock,and to see the Proof that this is being done. Bet Hargreaves

Well, I would like to know what you suggest? It's not my suggestions. If is the fact that black and gloomy posts such as yours make the people who should be breeding stop. The greater majority of Cavaliers in this country show absolutely no signs of SM. 50% may well prove to have syrinxes on MRI, but if they have no symptoms, what's the problem? MVD is not a particular problem with registered dogs, but the vast majority are unregistered. Personally, I don't think doing the scans will lead anywhere. The fact that SM can spontaneously regress is a factor which everyone knows, and ignores. I suppose that is because scanning is the only way forward they see. SM is not the problem it is in the UK. You have no idea of the difficulty of having any dogs scanned here. You have no idea of the distances either. There is ONE subsidised scanner in the country, and there is no helpful club offering reduced price scans to dogs over 6 - because there are insufficient registered breeders to support anything like that, although they work damned hard to do as much as they can, It is a toss up whether the puppy numbers reach zero first, or the Government bans the breed. Just 3,186 registered Cavalier King Charles Spaniels were bred in 2009. That was an increase of over 1,000 since 1986, but when you consider the population of the country has doubled, (about 21million, I think) and 63% own a pet, the numbers bred are absymal, and dropping fast. According to my rough calculations, approximately 1,000 or more of those 3,186 pups are shipped out of Australia to a pet onshipping company in Hawaii. for delivery to pet shops in Asia. I would make an educated guess that 20,000 + Cavaliers are bred in Australia annually. if only 3,186 are registered and likely to be health tested, I suggest you buy a bell and ring it on the street corner to get your message to the would be buyers of those 16,000+ cavaliers. Because they are in the majority There are no where near enough registered dogs being bred to fill demand, the majority are unregistered from puppy factories. These people neither know nor care about SM - how do I know? Because I used to rescue them. This country is nothing like UK, and you are doing a great deal of damage I didn't see the pet owners raising money and donating privately to Claire Rusbridge to get this research started either. i saw Breeders doing all that. I saw breeders taking dogs to be scanned to try to establish some points of reference, good or bad. And the very worst thing is that I see breeders downing tools and walking away, or reducing their litters still further to reduce the possibility of sm. And sorry, you are totally unthinking, and you have no idea what you are talking about. You are not reducing SM, you are reducing the number of decent dogs bred. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Jed, my Patience with you has finally Snapped. To say that even if Cavaliers have been MRI Scanned and have Syrinxes ,but no Symptoms ,What's the Problem. Do you not understand what the Problem is , a Syrinx Denotes SM. Oh yes I know what I am talking about , but it is you who is doing Damage to our Cavaliers with your Ignorant Claims. Bet Hargreaves

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS. I would think that now it is acknowledged World Wide that Cavaliers have Two Serious Problems Afflicting the Breed ,SM and MVD. Nothing can get away from this Fact. It is up to Cavalier Breeders to Health Test and follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock . I am not being Unthinking or dont know what I am talking about when I am mentioning this. Just listen to what the Cavalier Researchers into SM and MVD are advising about those Two Health Problems. What would you suggest should be done, keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best when Breeding Cavaliers. Surely not!!!! Those days are now past, the Cavalier Buying Public now know this, and realize that much greater care should be being taken when Breeding Cavaliers. Bet Hargreaves

Actually, yes it does matter. If you are going to quote information then get it correct. This is typical of you, and even when you are corrected you ignore it. As can be seen on any forum you post to. As always, it's "doom and gloom" ... maybe some people look at the NSW report and say 50% are CLEAR .... I also noticed you mention one of the posts from this forum on the restricted group CavalierTalk .... why not raise it here Bet? why mention it on a forum where none of the breeders you contsantly attack are able to reply ? LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS. I would be so pleased to get an Answere to this, ,how am I attacking Cavalier Breeders when I am saying that the Cavalier Buying Public,should be advised to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who is Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations, and to see Proof that this is Being Done, how on Earth is this Attacking Cavalier Breeders, is this not Common Sense . Bet Hargreaves. You are atracking Cavalier breeders because you NEVER post any balanced reporting. Considering the paucity of MRI scanners for dogs in Aus,I would be surprised if the entire 60 dogs scanned were ALL breeders dogs, or dogs intended for breeding. As I just directed Sunnyflower and her dog to the next SM screening day, I am quite sure other owners with dogs with suspected SM have been directed to other screening days, and those dogs, which were already suspected of having SM were also screened. No doubt some dogs suspected of having SM would have been scanned privately and not included in those figures. I actually think you should get together with some of those pet owners you want to help, and breed Cavaliers without any problems for yourself, before the government bans breeding them. Jed Here is a suggestion. Should the advice from the Cavalier Researchers be listened to. Not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age and to know the Health Status of the Grand-Parenrs at 5 years of age. I don't know how this will help the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed but it it the only way at the moment, since it is now being believed that there are so many Cavalier Carriers around with the MVD GENES ,and to give the Cavaliers a future , the Genes for both SM and MVD have to be found. The Breeding of Cavaliers is not like what it used to be,it has to be more Scientific now. There is to be a Cavalier Seminar held here in London on the 20-11-10 when all the latest Research Information will be being given. And no, I won't be going , I am still having problems from the Treatment I got for Breast Cancer. Bet Hargreaves

Actually, yes it does matter. If you are going to quote information then get it correct. This is typical of you, and even when you are corrected you ignore it. As can be seen on any forum you post to. As always, it's "doom and gloom" ... maybe some people look at the NSW report and say 50% are CLEAR .... I also noticed you mention one of the posts from this forum on the restricted group CavalierTalk .... why not raise it here Bet? why mention it on a forum where none of the breeders you contsantly attack are able to reply ? LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS. I would be so pleased to get an Answere to this, ,how am I attacking Cavalier Breeders when I am saying that the Cavalier Buying Public,should be advised to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who is Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations, and to see Proof that this is Being Done, how on Earth is this Attacking Cavalier Breeders, is this not Common Sense . Bet Hargreaves.

Here you go again ... misusing information ... and you have been corrected on this one before butas usual you choose to ignore it. The 60 Cavaliers were NOT scanned in February. They were scanned over a period of time and the findings were presented at a February meeting. A small point I know but it's typical of you Bet .... LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Here is the Exact Quote which is on the Internet. MRI SCANS of AUSTRALIAN CKCS Breeding Stock shows 50% with SM. Dr G. CHILDS ,Board Certified Veterinary Neurologist at the Small Animal Specialist Hospital ,in North Ryde , NSW ,Australia,spoke at the CKCS CLUB of NSW about Syringomyelia this Month ,and Reported that of 60 Cavaliers which have been MRI Scanned under the Breeding Protocol ,50% have been found to have Syrinxes on their MRI's None of these Scanned Dogs had Any Symptoms of SM ,and All were Potential Breeding Stock.Their Syrinxes ranged from from 2mm to over 5mm in Size. Does it matter if I made a mistake in saying that they were MRI 'd at the CKCS Seminar, the Importatant thing is surely , and must be giving cause for Concern ,is that this Information was given at the CKCS CLUB of NSW , that 60 Cavaliers of Potential Cavalier Breeding Stock ,50% were found to have SM. Bet Hargreaves

Not when I looked last. However, people who go shock shreik horror are rather discouraged. As you have seen. Pet owners in ths thread have been encouraged to discover more about health in their breed, not chased away. I have tried not to be rude to Bet Hargraves. However the problem with her is that she takes some news or other, and turns it into some black problem which is not fixable, and is never fixable. Having read her comments on various lists and forums world wide, my patience is wearing thin. I would welcome some useful input - but she has none, jusr doom and gloom. There are problems in the Cavalier breed - as there are problems in your breed, in poodles, and in other breeds. The problems in Aus are not as great as Bet Hargraves intimates. And the "latest news" is very old news indeed. As far as I can see, her desire is to have the breed pushed out of existence, because she happened to have one - from a reg breeder - which got sick. People who buy these dogs should be aware that there are NO tests for syringo, and few tests for MVD, so if you buy one, you could expect to have problems, no matter what lines or kennels you buy from. Buyers choice. Reputable breeders inform their buyers, and of course non reputable ones dont., I suppose really, it depends on whether you think pet owners with axes to grind - ie, Bet Hargraves and Carol Fowler should be allowed to dictate, through their ceaseless harping, the failure of the breed. And it surely will fail. They are just making it happen faster Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels Yes, when I started this Thread ,it was the Latest News from the Syringomyelia Seminar held here in Britain on 7-10-10. I only want the Cavalier Pet Owning Public to have the Chance of having a Healthy ,Long Lived Life,since the Cavalier Pet Owners are in the Majority of Owning Cavaliers, and the best chance of this Happening ,is for the Cavalier Buying Public to be made aware about the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers , and be being told to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who can show the Proof that they are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock. Surely ,it is a fact that when a Cavalier is MRI Scanned it will be known whether there is a Syrinx Present ,and this denotes, SM ,also when a Cavalier is Heart Tested it will be discovered the state of the Heart ,and should not be Bred From if there is a Heart Problem with their Heart. The Breeding Guideline Recommendations for both those Two Diseases Afflicting Cavaliers ,from the UK CKCS CLUB and the Researchers here in Britain, are , not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age ,and to know the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5. All I can quote ,is that there were 60 Cavaliers MRI Scanned in February at a Cavalier Seminar,in Australia, 50% had SM.This was carried out by Dr Childs , a Neurologist. Bet Hargreaves

Is it a rule that only breeders can have an interest in breed health matters? It's something that's often levelled at me, you see, and I don't understand why it's constantly brought up. I know rather a lot about health issues and the genetics of my breed and yet because I'm not a breeder, apparently I'm not allowed to comment. So what if Bet isn't a breeder? LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CKARLES SPANIELS Could I just mention ,that it is the Cavalier Pet Owners who have the most Cavaliers ,and do have such an Enormous Interest in having a Healthy ,Long Lived Cavalier. When a Cavalier Breeder has a Cavalier Litter of Puppies , will not most of the Litter go to Cavalier Pet Owners's Homes. We Have had our Cavaliers for over 30 years ,and were not Cavalier Breeders ,so as Sheridan says ,why should I not comment on the Health of the Breed I love. Bet Hargreaves

it's called "seeking an audience" .... anywhere and everywhere ..... Part of that audience was Sunnyflower, a cavalier owner who had never heard of Syringomyelia before, but now, thanks to this thread, is aware of the disease, has realised that her dog has many of the symptoms and is having him scanned. Sunnyflower, I really hope Oscar doesn't have SM. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS. If some Cavalier Folk have been made aware about this Insidious Disease by my comments , that is all that is what this is all about ,I do hope Sunnyflower that Oscar does'nt have SM. I will never Defend my-self in what I am doing ,I believe it to be right , I was once told that ,Softly ,Softly Cachee Monkey, was the best way when I was fighting about the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers, but after seeing the Impact the PDE TV Program has had here in Britain ,the Kennel Club has done U Turns, there is now a Dog Breeding Advisory Council set up,it is only by the Shock Information and the Hard Hitting Facts of the PDE Program that made the Dog Buying Public aware about the SM and MVD Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed. That there are many Cavalier Breeders who would prefer to to Cross their their Fingers and Hope , rather than spend Time and Money on the Health Tests available. Would many Cavalier Breeders who are Breeding from Show Winning Stock ,really want to discover that their Young Champion should not be being used at Stud ? As was said by the Previous CKCS CLUB CHAIRPERSON a few years ago. "There are still Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock ,and of Those who do, it would Appear that many would not Hesitate to Breed from Affected Animals." Finally ,on a Personal Note ,there was one Cavalier Forum I was removed from because I was Rocking the Boat with my Views,the other Cavalier Forum I Resigned from, because I did not like their Snide and Innuendoe Remarks about the Cavalier Researchers who are trying to give our Cavaliers a Future. As for Steve Dean's Article, he also has made quite a U Turn about the mention of the Significant Incidence of Heart Disease and Syringomyelia in the Cavalier Breed. Before he had said those two Diseases were really not much of a Problem for our Cavaliers. As WE SAY Here in Scotland . WEEL, HE KENS NOO !!!!! Bet Hargreaves

and here you go yet AGAIN ..... picking up any comment you can and twisting it to your own agenda. yes, you will be remembered (as you've stated that's what you want) ... but it will be for your disservice to the breed. Latest News On SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Delicara I have no Idea if you are are Cavalier Breeder ,I only know that I am trying to Alleviate the Suffering of so many Cavaliers and Hopefully because of what I am saying to the Cavalier Buying Public ,to only buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests their Cavalier Breeding Stock , then just maybe our Cavaliers will have the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives. How on Earth is that giving a Disservice to the Breed I care so much about. Maybe you think what you are doing is Best for our Cavalier Breed, but I for Sure Think what I am doing in trying to Help their Suffering is Right. Surely Delicara , you can't Wish for Cavaliers to be suffering from those Two Diseases which are Afflicting them now. What is your Remedy? Bet Hargreaves

The government wont get to ban Cavaliers they will be extinct before that because no more are being bred. Unless of course, non registered breeders and puppy farms make up the shortfall, as they are in Aust. No pedigrees, no tests, pushed off to the pet shop, no responsibility for anything by the breeder. And sorry, a huge percentage of pet buyers expect all tests to have produced positive results and that the dog will not suffer from any health problem which the breeder may or may not have been able to avoid. And they do not understand if there is no definitive test, there is no guarantee of good health - as with SM. Since I first began breeding I have given a guarantee against hereditary health problems. And I would happily do that with SM - but I would not want to be responsible for producing a dog which suffered. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL By a Strange Co-incidence, in this Week's DOG WORLD printed here in Britain , there is a Veterinary Column written by Steve Dean, who is very Influential in the Dog World here, " he says that we all should feel sorry for the Cavalier People who have TWO Horrible Dilemmas in their Breed ,a Significant Incidence of Heart Disease and Syringomyelia . To have either Problem is Bad Enough ,but to Handle Both at Once is a Real Dilemma and will take Great Fortitude. That the Choices for the Cavalier Breed are Few and Uninspiring. That to help in the Uphill Struggle Ahead for our Cavalier Breed ,is for ,Vets , Geneticists ,Scientists and and Dog Breeders to work to-gether ,gather Good Data,and apply Good Science and Common Sense to those Problems and Probably Progress can be made." I think Steve Dean's Article says all that I have been trying to get across to you Folk,that the Cavalier Breed is in a Mess Heath-Wise at the Moment, and it will only be, by Finding the Genes for SM and MVD can the Cavaliers have a Future. Bet Hargreaves

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Unfortunately ,the Cavalier World is now living in Different Times. Now it can be said that knowing a Cavalier has had a Long Life, gives absolutely no Guarantee that that Cavalier is not a Carrier of the MVD Gene or Genes. This probably why here in Britain 50% of Cavaliers 5-6 years of age have a Heart Murmur ,is because there are so many Cavaliers around to-day who are Carriers of the MVD GENE or GENES. No I don't want Cavaliers to be a Banned Breed, only for the Cavalier Buying Public to be made aware of the Health Problems of SM and MVD in Cavaliers , and be advised to buy a Cavalier only from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests and is following the SM and MVD Breeding Guideline Recommendations. Surely all Cavalier Breeders must agree with this advice. Bet Hargreaves

You will find Bet Hargreaves on quite a few dog forums preaching the same thing day after day .... and usually constantly "breeder bashing" the UK Cavalier breeders. When the going gets tough she will retreat to a forum where those she criticizes have no right of reply as they are not allowed to join that forum. Often BH will misquote or take completely out of cpntext what people have said ... and rarely posts corrections. To my knowledge she has never breed Cavaliers and I believe she has not owned one for some time. LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS I will not be making any Excuses or Apologies because we have never been Cavalier Breeders , though what that has to do with me being involved for at least the Past 20 years with the MVD Trouble in our Breed ,I just cannot understand. The reason for my Involvement in the Cavalier Breed is because of the Heart Ache of some of our Cavaliers dying at such Ages because of the MVD Problem afflicting our Cherished Cavalier Breed I have collected around 400 Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble and sent them to a Couple of Universities here in Britain and One in Austria,to the Researchers who are Researching the Cavaliers MVD Problem. In-fact some are being used at the moment with the Genetic Research into MVD in Cavaliers. It is a Myth to say I am Cavalier Breeder Bashing ,I will always say ,and continue saying ,that the Cavalier Buying Public ,should be made aware about SM and MVD in the Cavalier Breed and be advised only to buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests and follows the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for SM and MVD in their Cavalier Breeding Stock.How can that be Termed Breeder Bashing,I would sure like to know. This way the Puppy Farmers and BYB's will also be being involved when they are asked those Questions by the Cavalier Buying Public. No ,we do not have any Cavaliers now, we are Pensioners , and when we did have Cavaliers , the Vet's Bill was over £100 a month , the MVD Pills cost at least £1 each, and now with SM in the Cavalier Breed , we just can't take the risk of the Expense that we could be involved with. I don't know the Price of the Pills for SM but I believe they could also be around £ 1 each, . I am unaware that I have taken Quotes out of Context, and to say when the Going Gets Tough ,I will retreat ,... The Going has been Tough for me the Past 20 years, being involved with the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers. The best Hope that I think the Cavaliers have ,will be when the Genes are found for SM and MVD ,then the Carriers will also be found. At the moment though, all I can think of for our Cavaliers ,is to get the Cavalier Buying Public ,only to buy from Cavalier Breeders who Heath Test and follow out the Cavalier Breeding Guideline Recommendations, in that way ,the Folk who buy a Cavalier, could be saved ,just maybe ,the Expense of the Medication for SM and MVD Bet Hargreaves

UNfortunately the Type of MVD the Cavalier Breed suffers from , the Cavaliers have it at a much younger age than any other TOY Breed. There is to be Seminar here in Britain 20-11-10 , where the Cavaliers' MVD Problem will be one Subjects being discussed by the Researchers in this serious Problem Afflicting our Cavalier Breed ,where it is known that in Britain, 50% of Cavaliers have a Heart Murmur 5-6 years of age ,and this is no better the Experts say , than 18 years ago. I will mention again ,is this because there are now so many Cavaliers around with the MVD Gene or Genes. Bet Hargreaves

Nah! I don't believe most people think testing resolves all problems. I think testing for possible inherited problems would lead good breeders to change direction with their breeding program if they thought it necessary. However it seems testing is not very helpful with SM. From what I'm learning, it can crop up when there has been no evidence of problems in the ancestors. Is it a recessive gene? Good breeders want to breed healthy dogs. I doubt most ethical breeders would use breeding stock that have been proven to suffer from SM. The unethical ones wouldn't give a rats and there is no shortage of the unethical ones. The trick is knowing how and where to find the good breeders. I feel pretty sure that everyone knows testing is an investigative process, it's not curative and nothing is 100% predictable when breeding a living organism. maybe im injected with pollyanna virus.. but i really think and want to believe such people are greatly in the minority. unlike your words seem to imply to me, or am i misunderstanding? LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS I am going back to my Previous Post. I don't know what the Economic Climate is like in Australia ,but here in Britain it's getting very Grim, and going to be getting Worse. The Pills for MVD cost at least £1 each ,and I think it's the same for the SM Pills ,if not more, if the Cavalier Buying Public know that this is what the Medication is going to cost for their Cavalier who can develope SM or MVD, then I think they will only wan't to buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who is not Health Testing and follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock. All I know is ,that last year the Cavalier Registrations issued by the Kennel Club here in Britain ,were 8,000,as against around 11,000 in previous years. Bet Hargreaves OH DEARIE ME. NEEDING A COFFEE, just noticed , I made a MISTAKE IN MY POST!!!!, should read ,that the Cavalier buying Public, will only wan't to buy from a Cavalier Breeder WHO IS HEALTH TESTING AND FOLLOWING THE BREEDING GUIDELINE RECOMMENDATIONS> I'm an Epileptic, and some-times my Brain goes quicker than my Fingers on the Key Pad. Sorry Folks ,about this. Bet Hargreaves

Nah! I don't believe most people think testing resolves all problems. I think testing for possible inherited problems would lead good breeders to change direction with their breeding program if they thought it necessary. However it seems testing is not very helpful with SM. From what I'm learning, it can crop up when there has been no evidence of problems in the ancestors. Is it a recessive gene? Good breeders want to breed healthy dogs. I doubt most ethical breeders would use breeding stock that have been proven to suffer from SM. The unethical ones wouldn't give a rats and there is no shortage of the unethical ones. The trick is knowing how and where to find the good breeders. I feel pretty sure that everyone knows testing is an investigative process, it's not curative and nothing is 100% predictable when breeding a living organism. maybe im injected with pollyanna virus.. but i really think and want to believe such people are greatly in the minority. unlike your words seem to imply to me, or am i misunderstanding? LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS I am going back to my Previous Post. I don't know what the Economic Climate is like in Australia ,but here in Britain it's getting very Grim, and going to be getting Worse. The Pills for MVD cost at least £1 each ,and I think it's the same for the SM Pills ,if not more, if the Cavalier Buying Public know that this is what the Medication is going to cost for their Cavalier who can develope SM or MVD, then I think they will only wan't to buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who is not Health Testing and follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock. All I know is ,that last year the Cavalier Registrations issued by the Kennel Club here in Britain ,were 8,000,as against around 11,000 in previous years. Bet Hargreaves

I guess its luck that in August an MRI became available for use here at the University. Before that you would have to fly the dog to Brisbane to get scanned, so it has become cheaper but still over $1000-00. Unfortunately even if they thought my cav had SM we couldnt afford the MRI. Liath - I think when we decide to bring a pet into our home we need to be prepared to look after them to a certain cost, and I think being realistic $1000 is pretty fair in terms of vet costs! I completely agree it isn't cheap but if my partner and I couldn't save our money (which is exactly what we are having to do, go without until we have the money together) I think I would have to find it in our hearts to surrender him to the Cavalier Club who would be willing to put him through his tests and find him a new home to be fair to him. As Jed has said and all the research states, this is a very horrible and painful disease, to potentially know your dog is in pain is in my opinion a form of cruelty. We have a duty of care to these guys! LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS Could I just add to my other Posts on this subject ,that I really do feel that it's by telling the Cavalier Buying Public, to make them aware of those Two Serious Diseases in our Cavalier Breed, SM and MVD , to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests and follows the Breeding Guideline Recommendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock and to be shown Proof that the Cavalier Breeder is doing this, also let the Cavalier Buying Public be made aware of the cost of the Medications for SM and MVD,that this is another reason, why only to buy from a Cavalier Breeder who is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock. I know that the advice to only buy from a Cavalier Breeder who is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock, won't guarantee that the Cavalier won't have a Health Problem in their Life-Time but at least they will know they are dealing with a Cavalier who cares enough about their Cavaliers and is giving them the chance of a Healthier, Longer Life. Bet Hargreaves

Jed - Thank you for that link, funnily enough that is the one I saw last night which is what made it all hit home. I wrote down his symptoms today. - Scratching - Bunny hopping (on lead and just around the home) - Yelping - Paw licking - Fly chasing (real ones and imaginary ones) - Walks with a bend in his back end - Rubs his face all the time on the rug I could have just a little weirdo for a dog but after seeing footage of other Cavs with the disease I don't want to kid myself. I need to have him checked out to diagnose him as a weirdo or something else. Latest News On Syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels I wonder if I could add a wee bit to this Thread. This is such a Horrible New Disease to have Appeared in our Cavalier Breed. In the 1990's Dr C. Rusbridge ,a Neurologist here in Britain, had I think 4 Cavaliers who all had the same Neurological Symptoms. The Alarm Bells started to ring for her. Then more Cavaliers were appearing with Similar Symptoms, she then realized that this was a Problem in the Cavalier Breed. Much has been discovered about it ,but it is still so important to find the Genes involved causing SM in Cavaliers. This work is going on along with Dr C Rusbridge ,in Canada. At the Moment here in Britain ,with the help of RUPERT'S FUND started by the Cavalier Talk List ,Older Cavaliers ,6 years upwards are being MRI Scanned and Dr Rusbridge and the Genetic Team in Canada, are hoping this information will help in their Genetic Research It is so important though at the Moment that Cavalier Breeding Stock be being MRI Scanned for this Insidious Condition. Bet Hargreaves

Yes, but the Article by the Researchers also said that Almost all the Affected Dogs have been Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. Bet Hargreaves

I believe that there will be more information available shortly once the full Veterinary Paper is Published.At the moment it is so important to be having Cavalier Breeding Stock MRI Scanned . When the Genes for SM are discovered , then the Carriers will also be found, and hope-fully the Horrible SM Disease will be on the way out and the suffering of our Cavaliers helped Bet Hargreaves

There was a Seminar held here in Britain 7-10-10, a piece of Good News,was that in a well Regulated Study, it was shown by following Breeding Guidelines ,they do work,Syringomyelia in our Cavalier Breed can be being Bred away from Early Onset. A to A Matings Produce 75 .9% of Offsprings who have no Syringomyelia. Now at least it has been shown that by MRI Scanning Cavaliers ,and they have A's ,then A to A matings do produce 75.9% of no Off-Springs with SM. Bet Hargreaves

breeders Aust wide are not too happy with this one, and a lot of questions are being asked about how many dogs were in the survey. Proof is being required about the dogs in the survey. Lots of questions now being asked about surveys in general - 19 year old dog is free of MVD. Of course he is, he has been dead for years. Dogs being added into stats re SM are dogs referred to specialists by the vets as being suspected having SM synptoms. Those 2 things would skew the figures either way Much prefer to believe my own "surveys" - none of my dogs had MVD or SM. Thats all I know for sure, and it's too small to be a survey but it suits me. Either my breeder friends are all liars, or they don't have MVD or SM either. I rather think they are telling the truth. Sheridan I thought improving the breed, and not having sick dogs was the same goal. Many serious and dedicated long time breeders in UK and USA do not approve of Bet or her methods. They state that her research is not well done or proven yet she distributes her theories and ideas on lists and forums on the net worldwide as scientifically proven without any proof or studies which back what she has to say. These are highly respected breeders who have been putting healthy and winning cavs on the ground for decades who do all the tests, who helped pay for and develop the tests, and who lose dogs well into their teens. They often post on lsts to refute what Bet says and to warn breeders about her. I don't personally know any of the people involved, including Bet - so I read both sides. I have enjoyed reading what Bet has to say, although I don't always agree with it, and stats available for Aus seem to show a different picture from the one in UK. Bets theories have sent me off to research,l which has been good. As I haven't bred Cavs for quite some time and will not breed again I haven't been followng it as closely as I might have 12 months ago. Problem is that Bet doesn't understand how difficult it is to eradicate a disease for which there is no tests, no known mode of inheritance, and the onset of symptoms is usually after the dog's breeding life is over. And of course, if the progeny of dogs who showed late onset MVD are eracidated from breeding programs, the gene pool will be so reduced other and perhaps worse problems will surface. But - I know many breeders are probably annoyed enough with Bet to send her an anonymous letter. However it would be postmarked, so that gives the police an immediate lead on area .... so I hope they catch him soon. It's a scabby thing to do. Maybe for Bet to be posting here, the letter came from Australia? MY FIRST ANONYMOUS LETTER I hope I will be allowed to answer why asto why I am not popular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain. It all started at the beginning when the Problem of SM in Cavaliers appeared and I was asked to help the Researchers with the Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from SM. I have been interested in the History of our Cavalier Breed and their Pedigrees for over 30 Years. At that time I could not make sense of the SM Problem and said so . With some of the Cavalier Breeders because of me doing this ,I was the Flavour of the Month and could do no wrong in their Eyes. Then I saw the Wee Tri Cavalier Sreaming in Pain because of SM on the PDE TV Program ,and realized I knew nothing at all about what I was saying about the Cavaliers' SM Problem, even to this day I have not been fogiven for changing sides in saying what I now believe about the serious SM Problem Afflicting our Cavaliers. I have always fought for the Cavaliers and their MVD Problem for around 20 years, collected Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble and sent them to Researchers at a Couple of Universities who were Researching the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers,. The Cavalier Breeders here in Britain were warned in 1983 by Dr P.Darke, the CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist ,from Surveys that he had done at Cavalier Shows about how Wide-Spread the MVD Problem was in Cavaliers. At the UK CKCS CLUB 's AGM Last year , it was mentioned by the The Cardiologist giving a Lecture at it, that 50% of Cavaliers 5-6 years of age have MVD and this is no better than it was 18 years ago. I have never said any-thing that I have not been told by the Cavalier Researchers into their MVD and SM Problems,. Finally ,surely it is not wrong to make Prospective Cavalier Buyers aware about the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers ,and advise them to ask to see a Certificate to show that the Cavalier Breeder is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock. Is it those methods that make me so Unpopular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain? For the sake of our Cavaliers I really hope not. Bet Hargreaves