shortstep

Most merle to merle breeding I have heard about in the past, have take place to make more money in the future. Good practice is to always breed a Mm Merle toa solid dog, and you will get about half Mm merles and half solid pups. When you breed Mm merle to Mm merle a certain number of the pups in the litter will be MM (only have M gene to pass on). If they can locate the MM dogs in the litter, these MM dogs will only produce merles when bred to solid dogs ( in other words a MM to solid dog litter, all the pups will be Mm merles). Since these type of breeders are breeding to make money and the merles are sold for more money (often their solid dogs have no value at all), they will make more money on the all merle litters from a MM parent, about double more money than a normal Mm merle to a solid dog litter. It's all about $$$$. The border collies in ANKC have a rule that you cannot registered merle to merle litters, but of course this will only help to prevent this practice if the dogs are registered as the colours they really are. that's a highly unethical way of breeding and I know it happened/ happens in the US, but certainly don't think that any Australian Aussie breeder that I know who have done a merle x merle do so for this reason! why keep a white, deaf and blind dog to breed just to breed merles. don't make it sound like it's the norm, as many breeders do so just as they would a tri x tri, because they feel that this mating is what compliments their lines the best. I'm neither supporting nor dissing it... just stating what I have seen/ heard. I did not say it was normal practice, nor did I say it happened in OZ, nor did I say it happens with any breed in particular or any other breed. You OK with that now? Not all the MM pups will have a health problems some will be normal.

Most merle to merle breeding I have heard about in the past, have take place to make more money in the future. Good practice is to always breed a Mm Merle toa solid dog, and you will get about half Mm merles and half solid pups. When you breed Mm merle to Mm merle a certain number of the pups in the litter will be MM (only have M gene to pass on). If they can locate the MM dogs in the litter, these MM dogs will only produce merles when bred to solid dogs ( in other words a MM to solid dog litter, all the pups will be Mm merles). Since these type of breeders are breeding to make money and the merles are sold for more money (often their solid dogs have no value at all), they will make more money on the all merle litters from a MM parent, about double more money than a normal Mm merle to a solid dog litter. It's all about $$$$. The border collies in ANKC have a rule that you cannot registered merle to merle litters, but of course this will only help to prevent this practice if the dogs are registered as the colours they really are.

I would not let lack of ANKC registration put me off. They can be registered in sporting or associate and do all of the activities she has listed. They certainly do very well in agility and are highly trainable dogs with good temperaments. I do not think as a rule Koolies meet the big and goofy description however. Sleek and sexy maybe! LOL If I were to look at koolies I would be asking for hip scoring on parents and eye exams on the parents and pups. Avoid double merle litters. Make sure they can hear.

Moselle, you are of course entitled to your own opinion but you're MORE than welcome to come and give me a backhander. But don't expect to not get one back!!! There are MANY reasons why a person doesn't want to purchase a puppy in their own country and you are making some pretty widesweeping statements here. Hi ellz, LOL. I must say that I have never ever given anybody a backhander but even in saying that I think I would give a pretty memorable backhander What reasons could people possibly have in wanting to purchase a puppy from overseas? Nope, sorry but I beg to differ. Any breeder that is truly an animal lover would never ever go down that path. Well better come back hand me too LOL. How about they want a good working dog or sports dog or they know others with your dogs and just can't live with out one?? LOL There can be lots of reasons besides just wanting to breed. You can check them out too, just as good as you check out someone who lived on the other side of OZ. How about this, had some one from OZ contact me as they had met one of my dogs in another country and fell in love with it. Now how is that for a small world. LOL

I am sure this is not the right place for this but do not know where to put it, please fell free to move. The Test results interpretation is a very interesting read. Genetic Testing for Inherited Polyneuropathy in Leonbergers Brief Disease summary http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/prod/groups/cvm...news_211819.pdf LPN1 Genetic Test Result Interpretation Clear: Your dog is clear of the LPN1 gene mutation. This means that your dog has two copies of the normal gene (this is also referred to as being homozygous normal). However, this result does not rule out the possibility that your dog could have, or be a carrier for, a different polyneuropathy mutation that this test cannot detect. At Risk: Your dog has one copy of the normal form of the gene and one copy of the mutated form of the LPN1 gene (this is also referred to as being heterozygous). Our research indicates approximately 50% of dogs with one copy of the LPN1 gene develop clinical signs of LPN, but whether it is due to this single copy of the LPN1 gene itself, or is a different form of neurological disease entirely, is not yet known. The average age that owners first notice clinical signs in these at risk dogs, if they develop at all, is 6 years. Additionally, these dogs typically have much milder clinical signs than dogs with two copies of the LPN1 mutation. Having one copy of the mutated form of the LPN1 gene does not rule out the possibility that a dog may have younger onset of a different polyneuropathy caused by a mutation not detected by this test. LPN1 at risk dogs will, on average, pass the LPN1 gene mutation on to half of their offspring. Affected: Your dog has two copies of the LPN1 gene mutation (this is also referred to as being homozygous affected). Affected dogs typically develop neurological disease at or before 3 years of age, and clinical signs tend to be more severe than those observed in at risk (heterozygous) dogs. Affected dogs will pass one copy of this mutation on to all of their offspring. Further Information We are testing for a specific DNA segment deletion in a specific gene; therefore this can be referred to as a gene mutation test. This situation is different from other types of genetic tests that describe only the identification of a DNA marker that could be very far away from the true disease gene, and not be as highly predictive as desired. We have designated the letter D to indicate the mutant (LPN1) form of the gene and N to indicate the normal form of the gene. A dog's particular combination of N or D forms of the gene is known as its genotype. The genotype of a normal dog is designated as N/N and is clear of the mutation. N/N dogs do not have LPN1, however, some do develop neuropathy with similar clinical and histopathological signs due to other as-yet-unidentified mutations. Dogs with the D/D genotype are affected with LPN1. All dogs with the D/D genotype to date have developed clinical signs of neurologic disease, typically by 3 years of age or younger. Dogs with the D/N genotype are currently considered at risk. At present, approximately 50% of dogs with the D/N genotype develop signs of neurologic disease and the average age that clinical signs are first noted is 6 years. However, D/N dogs typically present with less severe clinical signs than D/D dogs. Due to other causes of neuropathy in Leonbergers, the exact mode of inheritance of the LPN1 form of neuropathy cannot yet be stated for certain. For example, it is possible that LPN1 is dominantly inherited, with a dose- dependent nature to the disease (more copies = worse disease). However, it also possible that LPN1 is recessive, and that only D/D dogs have this form of neuropathy, while D/N and N/N dogs with clinical signs have another form of neuropathy. With either inheritance model, producing a puppy with severe, early-onset LPN caused by the mutant LPN1 gene would require that both parents be either at risk (D/N) or affected (D/D). Given all the above considerations, our best estimates of the chance of any given puppy with severe, early-onset LPN1 (i.e., with the D/D genotype) being born from a litter produced by parents of all possible genotypes is indicated in the following table. Chance of a severe, early-onset affected (D/D) puppy being born from parents of known genotypes Sires genotype N/N D/N D/D Dams genotype N/N 0% 0% 0% D/N 0% 25% 50% D/D 0% 50% 100% Chance of an at risk (D/N) puppy being born from parents of known genotypes Sires genotype N/N D/N D/D Dams genotype N/N 0% 50% 100% D/N 50% 50% 50% D/D 100% 50% 0% Matings indicated in red will produce D/D puppies, and are not recommended. Another way of understanding the implications of the LPN1 results on breeding is that breeding a D/N sire to an N/N dam can only produce puppies that are D/N or N/N. On the other hand, breeding a D/N sire to an D/D dam gives a 50% chance that a puppy will have severe, early-onset LPN1, since puppies will be either D/N or D/D. All puppies from the mating of two D/D parents will be D/D, and thus susceptible to the severe, early-onset form of LPN1. We do not recommend selecting dogs for breeding based solely on their being N/N for the LPN1 gene. Such a drastic strategy, although more quickly eliminating the possibility of producing D/D and D/N dogs, also has the undesired result of potentially constricting an already small breeding pool. This may result in the loss of some of the outstanding traits expected of superior lines of Leonbergers. Immediate removal of all D/N dogs could also lead to an increase in other deleterious traits or diseases. A breeding program that utilizes D/N dogs can be logically implemented by mating to N/N dogs and retaining N/N puppies with most or all of the other highly desired characteristics for future breeding. D/N puppies could also be retained for breeding if they possessed other exceptional qualities and were mated with only N/N dogs. Long term, the ideal goal would be to minimize production of any D/N dogs in each successive generation. There is no chance of producing a D/D puppy if it is known that at least one of the parents is N/N. It is important to remember that this LPN1 test is diagnostic for only one of possibly several genetic risk factors for polyneuropathy. Thus, it is still possible that affected offspring with a different genetic form of polyneuropathy could occur, even from a mating of two dogs that both have been tested N/N for the LPN1 mutation. To that end, we also recommend that both dogs in a breeding pair be free of any signs of neurological disease, regardless of genotype, because this test can only detect one polyneuropathy mutation. Outlook and Treatment Coming soon. For additional information please refer to the following website: www.vdl.umn.edu/vdl/ourservices/canineneuromuscular **We encourage all owners to share their dogs test result with their breeder, as well as submitting them to the Leonberger Health Foundation LPN1 database.

Fantastic I have been looking for a real working breeder in the ANKC. Can you pm me contact inforamtion I would love to go see some of their dogs working. I am so excieted as every time I get a lead like this to real ANKC wokring dogs it just seems to never come to anything.

In Austrtalia there is ANKC, each state has a sheep dog handlers register which will registered border collies and there is the AWBCR which is for purebred (ISDS traceable) working border collies. There are also breeders who use ISDS and ABCA, both working registries. ISDS was the original registry of the breed, it is a working registry and they register dogs around the world, about 8000 a year. They will only accept ABCA or CBCA dogs into their registry. ABCA America and CBCA Canada, are also working registires and the largest in the world, around 30,000 pups a year. They also will register dogs world wide. There are far more registered purebred working bred border collies in the world than there are show registered. Many other countries have large populations of working BC, such as Brazil, Argentina, most of Europe. They are the leading stock work dog in the world.

If you believe that sheep / cattle work is the most common and significant selection criteria in the show border collie and is used as the primary selection tool to choose which dogs are bred, then the work it's self may well have lead to the change. We would need to look at the type of work and style of work being done. If the most common selection method is something else, say breeding to the show standard. Then I do not think that a few dogs that work would have any impact on the over all breeds genetic change.

I think this is such a big part of the problem.

Opps was posting asyou replied. Please ignor. Sorry not sure if you wre talking to me. I have never thought that stopping pet shop sales will do anything to stop large puppy mills or dog brokers for that matter. I was opposed to the Clover bill. I do think that it would be better if people got thier pups from breeders. But stopping pet shop sales will not make that happen either. They can still buy pup in the penny saver, at markets or any of many other situations. I do think it might be good to look at some how stopping the suplly of overseas commercial markets for dogs. But I am not in favor of taking away the right to export and import dogs as a braod sweep, as now blood is vital to maintaining breeds here and in other countries. this was what I was asking about.

Yes his name is very well used in the Dogs NSW edition. No question that anyone looking could miss what is going on. So is the answer to shut down pet export? I would hate to see that as there many that are sending dogs to good homes over seas. I would also like to think that the ability to move dogs to different countries will aid in decreasing some disease and improve breeds over all. Is there a method that could some how qucikly block that bad and not the good exports?

I agree it is not suprising and many have been saying it for well over 25 years. Remember the border collie wars? Yes that is true Jules, certainly at least a little cross breeding was done. But we do not know for sure what caused the genetic difference. Being isolate away from the main population, being bred in isolation over many years is also known to lead to genetic change. The selection process can not be over looked as a way the change could have happened. Was selecting for show (or no longer selecting for work) what lead to change? It would be interesting to look at OZ working dogs compared to the show dogs and see if they are also different to each other and if the working dogs are any closer to the ISDS dogs. All we can really conclude at this point is that ANKC border collies are different to ISDS border collies. But there is some good that comes from knowing this. We need to keep this in mind when we think of disease, that they will not both have all the same diseases, we have already seen some examples of this. Research will now use this information when looking for genes in either population. Affected rate could also be different in the 2 populations. All of this could be used to imporve health. Crossing OZ show lines to ISDS lines which some people are doing around the world, really is like doing a cross breeding. From what I have seen it is hard to predict which traits will be seen in each pup in the litters, and how they will produce when bred to either show or working dogs in the future. This is an area that should be watched with interest and for those who want to study the benefits or failings of cross breeding this would be an excellent controlled area of study.

What is your idea, can you share more ?

Sorry missed this post. And I cannot let that sort of arrogant reply go either. Your experience is obviously with current working line Borders, mine is with a variety of show, agility, obedience and some working dogs. There was no misinformation in my post but my observations over many years and comments from experienced trainers who have owned and trained both breeds in a variety of disiplines. Me, I have only been in the breed for 20 + years, working sheep dogs only, have a little experince in agility. Did reseuce for years, rehomed almost 300 dogs. Due to my minimal experince with working border collies I have many mentors. Perhaps I should include you as a mentor in the future. I am looking to buy a stud dog from the UK, can I run the lines by you to see what you think of their working and health histories and what I could likely expect in the offspring? QUOTE 1. World wide, border collies are the breed of choice for cattle work. More border collies work cattle world wide (and in Australia) than any other breed. Your statements about border collies use of force and working cattle are unfounded and in accurate. The most expensive working dog ever sold at a sale (over $23000.00 US) was a working border collie for cattle work at the Red Bluff Bull and Dog sale. Look around the web a bit to educate your self on this topic. Here is just one local (of many thousands of border collie breeders for cattle work world wide) http://www.datawave.net.au/~djsims/ I was refering to the origins of the breeds not what they are used for today and no one can deny that Borders originated as sheep dogs in the UK, while Aussies where developed in th USA as multi purpose herders. Our show, obedience and agility line Borders in Australia are descended from sheep dogs. Yes so was I. Border collie have been working cattle from their very beginnings. Also goats, pigs, birds and a few other odds and ends. They have continued to do so around the world and still do today. UK has more sheep so the border collie is best know for sheep, however do not think for one second they have not been working cattle or what ever else presented for as long as they have existed. Aussies first came to the the US with a load of sheep from Spain, least that is the story I was told. However the US is full of cattle so that is what they were best know for, at least at the time they were first registered. Like most farm dogs they worked what ever is on the farm. QUOTE 2. Border collies do not go off course in agility because of their temperaments or intelligence. They go off course because their handler is not mentally fast enough to tell them where to go in time or their handler is not smart enough to train the dog and the most frequent reason border collies go off course because their handler spends most of their time blameing the dog instead of seeing they are the root of the problem! In fact border collies have a tremendous ability to follow direction, see and differentiate handler cues and also make independent decisions when needed. this is one of many reasons they excel in agility. Nowhere did I mention dogs going off course in agility but if they do it can be because the handler gave them the wrong cue or because the dog thought of a more interesting way to do it. I was actually refering to obedience trials where Borders often anticipate or do things a bit different to break up the boredom. It is usually the dogs most likely to score the highest that do it. They can be brilliant or bomb out spectacularly, but are less likely to be consistently average. When working stock they follow direction perfectly but heeling around an obedience ring can be boring and this leads to them doing their own thing at times. Me, I repeat the same idea. A working border collie that gets board in the obedience ring is not due to their intelligence it is due to having a boring handler. It is an old rule of dog training, don't blame the dog look to the handler to find the problem. QUOTE 3. Border collies are not less calm than aussies. Aussies used to be known as the bouncing balls as they are prone to bounce around and bark at you when you run them in agility. (This is their working style, upright loosed eyed, bounce and bark). Contrast this to the working border collie style of work which is quite, steady and deliberate, commonly refered to as stealth in appearance. All the Aussies I know seem to be less likely than the Borders to be on their toes ready for action. I have seen plenty of Borders bounce around, bark and even nip their owners clothes when working in agility, especially those from agility lines, but have never seen an Aussie do it. Maybe some do it and I just haven't seen them because there are not nearly as many competing and the ones I do know that compete are from Aussie show lines. Some Borders are steady, deliberate and work with stealth as they should, but many are not when it comes to agility. Temperaments and energy levels vary a lot in individual dogs of both breeds, from lounge lizards to hyper but overall I see more easy going Aussies and friends that have owned both have commented that Aussies live life at a slower pace than the Borders. Me, I am basing my comments on Aussies from seeing thousands over 50 years and having owned one. Granted the dog I owned was prior to them having any sort of registry and was certainly not show bred. The dogs I saw were mostly doing agility, obedience or pet herding. I believe there is even a kennel called Bouncing Ball. So they no longer bounce? Perhaps they have changed that much as to no longer have the bouncing barking upright working style, and have lost the spark they once had. I will bow to your experience with the breed and take your word for it.

Same here. I was purely talking about genetics. And because they can't be registered as chocolate merles doesn't mean they aren't called that by breeders/BC people in discussion surely? Yeah I've never called my shaded sable a black tri, except in a very tongue in cheek way Yes the whole thing of putting down what colour the dogs really are is often a tounge in cheek process. The rest of the world just rolls their eyes. Personally I worry when people say that is does not matter what is put down on the reg papers. So what colour is your sable registered as? Opps forgot to say, EE red bred to merle, pups can be red merle or red crytic merle, and why I said it would be very dangerouse to breed a EE red from a merle parent to another merle. I am sure with the huge amount of colour breeding doing on right now, many people stock piling as many colours as they can in their dogs, that it will not be too long before this accidently does happen. Here is a good link with both a hidden and a expressed 'red' merle. http://www.bordercolliecolors.com/bordercolliecolors.ee.html

Yes exactly.

Well sort of as far as border collies, but you have to know how to understand the registered colours. Ok... What I meant was that here in Australia, what are called chocolates in BCs are the same colour as 'reds' in Aussies. They have the red/brown noses. Reds in BCs have black noses yes? So how did I 'sort of' get it right/wrong? :p I did not mean you got anything wrong, sorry if you felt that. It is just not a straight across change. For example your very pretty Red Tri Merle (if a border collie) would not be a Chocolate Tri Merle border collie, however it could be registered as a Chocolate or a Blue Merle or a Black Tri border collie, that what I meant. The problem is in the border collie ANKC standard, that has most of the colours but they do not all allow the genetic possibilities of those colours. They allow for only Black, Chocolate, Blue, Blue Merle and Black Tri. Tri gene attaches to any colour, so there are Chocolate Tris, Blue Tirs, Lilac Tris (dilute chocolate and tri) and so on. Merle can affect any colour, so there are Chocolate Merles, Slate merles (dilute Blue Merle), Lilac Merles (dilute chocolate merle) and so on. Dilute can affect any colour not just black (Blue), so there can be Lilacs (dilute chocolate) and so on. There is also clear and shaded sable in border collies. These are registered as EE reds or Black Tris in ANKC. So the whole thing is a big mess and there does not seem to be an desire to modernize the standard to the current knowledge of colour genetics. So people just deal with it the best they can I guess. Edited to add, most standards basically say that the border collie comes in a lot of colours but should not be all white, and that colour does not affect the working ability of the dog. Edited to add, here is the UK Kennel Club, the home of the border collie standard on colour Colour; Variety of colours permissible. White should never predominate. NZ KC same as above. AKC (USA) Color; The Border Collie appears in all colors or combination of colors and/or markings. Solid color, bi-color, tri-color, merle and sable dogs are to be judged equally with no one color or pattern preferred over another. White markings may be clear white or ticked to any degree. Random white patches on the body and head are permissible but should not predominate. Color and markings are always secondary to physical evaluation and gait. Canada does not have a show standard for border collies.

You would have to ask some one who has one. The few I have asked about were all registered as chcolates.

That second dog is a slate merle, translation a dilute(Blue) blue merle. Pretty dogs!

Well sort of as far as border collies, but you have to know how to understand the registered colours. In Australia they call the colour red chocolate. But they only allow blue merles to be registered. So chocolate merles are registered as blue merles or chocolates. Red in Australia refers to EE red and this can also come in merle, but the merle pattern is often hidden. So you might have a Red (EE) merle, but you can not register it as that colour either so they are registered as reds. Now this could be very dangerous as you might breed a red (red EE merle) to a blue merle and not realize what you are doing, but that is another story. Now in the UK where the breed comes from and most of the rest of the world, reds or red tris or red merles or red tri merles are called red or red tri or red merles or red tri merle and are registered as the colour they really are instead of a colour they are not. They do not use the word chocolate in border collies ever. When the first EE reds from Australia were imported, there was no name for that colour so most registries call them Aussie Reds but it is still an issue and gets confused. This all make for great fun when you import a Red Tri merle into Australia. they must recognize and registered the imports. But it is not a Red Tri Merle in Australia. First off you can not have a Red Tri or a Red Merle in Australia, so that is out. So it would have to be chocolate or a blue merle or a black tri, but could never a chocolate tri and never a chocolate merle and most assuredly never ever a chocolate tri merle. Hope that was clear. LOL

I think 'working' aussie these days means a dog not bred for show ring, they might do some pet herding, sports, companion dogs, service dogs things like that. The original cattle working aussie I owned at one time (mid late 1960's) were totally different to today's "working aussies". They were the same size a working border collie, light weight and very agile. Other than there working style and the docked tail they were not much different to working border collies. An old friend who had owned and bred working aussies in the 1960's through early 80's, he left the breed in the 80's. He said 10 years of show breeding in ASCA had taken it's toll on the breed. There were very few dogs being bred for real work anymore, the breed had changed into a pet/companion, show and sports dog. Those who have them now can disagree with this, it was just my life experience in southern California with cattle and horses being a big part of my life at that time. Prior to them being a registered breed for show ring in ASCA and prior to them going into the Kennel clubs. Gees I am getting old.

Need to clear up a few things again about working border collies. In regards to border collies and being social. Put yourself on the paddock, you have 2000 sheep to bring in and you are using 4 dogs. Do you want them visit with each other, perhaps have play in the paddock? or do you want them to ignore the other dogs and listen intently for your commands? Working border collies are bred to ignor other dogs in the work setting and this is why. Border collies should ignore other dogs when in all work setting, including sports. Some people call this focus, some call it attention, but in fact it is the skill needed on the paddock every day to stay on task. However when not at work, they are social with their own family of dogs or dogs they have made friends with. They should not be aggressive to other dogs and should never go looking for other dogs to interact with, as again they should stay on task. However many are irritated by social dogs that bother them when they are working. Because owners often do not understand their dog's inbred need to stay on task or they want their dog to be something it is not, they try to force their dog to be social or ignore the signals it does not want to be social and leave the dog to fend for it's self and make decisions, this can lead to dogs that may end up snarling or snapping to make other dogs leave them alone. Working border collies are very much loving and affectionate towards their owners. The breed as whole is this way, however their are always exceptions. They can be one man dogs but many will work happily for any one who is competent to handle them. They should ignore other people in a work settings and will be indifferent or friendly in non work settings, they should not be nervous or aggressive in any towards humans.

There is so much missinformation in this post I can not let it go. 1. World wide, border collies are the breed of choice for cattle work. More border collies work cattle world wide (and in Australia) than any other breed. Your statements about border collies use of force and working cattle are unfounded and in accurate. The most expensive working dog ever sold at a sale (over $23000.00 US) was a working border collie for cattle work at the Red Bluff Bull and Dog sale. Look around the web a bit to educate your self on this topic. Here is just one local (of many thousands of border collie breeders for cattle work world wide) http://www.datawave.net.au/~djsims/ 2. Border collies do not go off course in agility because of their temperaments or intelligence. They go off course because their handler is not mentally fast enough to tell them where to go in time or their handler is not smart enough to train the dog and the most frequent reason border collies go off course because their handler spends most of their time blameing the dog instead of seeing they are the root of the problem! In fact border collies have a tremendous ability to follow direction, see and differentiate handler cues and also make independent decisions when needed. this is one of many reasons they excel in agility. 3. Border collies are not less calm than aussies. Aussies used to be known as the bouncing balls as they are prone to bounce around and bark at you when you run them in agility. (This is their working style, upright loosed eyed, bounce and bark). Contrast this to the working border collie style of work which is quite, steady and deliberate, commonly refered to as stealth in appearance.

Just wanted to clarify this and several other statements made. World wide there are two different types of border collies, this is very true in Australia. Working border collies are the original breed and in it's original form. To be great sheepdogs they need to be fleet of foot, agile, athletic, good shoulders, long necks, level backs, intelligent, very biddable to the handlers wishes, and willing to get the job done and never give up, they also need move stock using eye (which is one area that makes them very different to aussies in agility). The term off switch is not used by working dog people, this is a term of pet people and sports people. Nothing requires a working border collie to restless, unable to be calm or control it's self. In fact being restless, mindless and unable to control it's self would be a very poor dog on the farm. This is something often labled on to working dogs and is not founded in truth. There is much much more to know about working border collies, but the over all emphasis in the breeding programs of a working border collie is a dog that can work with the handler to get the work done and everything involved in reaching that goal. World wide it is much more likely to be working border collies that you will see excelling in agility. The second type of border collie is the show bred border collie, now many many generations away from their working cousins. The over all emphasis is to breed a dog to the physical standard. They are bigger and heavier than the working dogs. They look and in many ways behave differently to working dogs. So in effect, you need to look at the show border collie, the working border collie and the aussie as 3 separate breeds in your quest to find the right dog for your desire to do performance activities. Most border collies in the ANKC are show bred. There are a few imported working dogs (look for ISDS references) in the ANKC. Most other working border collies will be registered into the State sheepdog registers and can be Associate registered in the ANKC. Best of luck

Dog brokers are what you are talking about and they should be avoided at all costs. However there are very nice people who live overseas, so you need to separate the nasty activity of dog brokering from perfectly fine activity of placing a pup overseas into a good home. Some ways to flush out and avoid brokers are: Interview carefully all buyers. Check references with their vet. Visit their home, or ask someone you trust to check their home. Speak to them at length about ownership of the pup, repeat these conversations a week or so later, ask the same questions to see if the answers change. Place all pups into pet homes on Limited Registration and mark the papers not for export and make sure the buyer knows you do this (this devalues any pup that might be sent over seas or resold). Take reservations and a deposit prior to breeding the litter this will allow you plenty of time to find good homes, if you can't find enough homes you like who will wait for the litter, then do not breed the litter. Just as you experienced, brokers usually (but not always) want to buy as many as possible, so suggest you might have several pups for sale (even if you do not) and see what they do. Be very careful or avoid email or phone call inquires that do not introduce themselves and their situation, ask for a photo and price, or emails that not mention your breed or your kennel. (for example; I am interested in your cute puppies, I am looking for a pet, can you send photo and price of puppies you have for sale.) Look at email address and be leery of any that are from places like gmail yahoo hotmail, does not mean they are bad but most brokers will use these sorts of email addresses they can change frequently. I am sure others can add to this list. Edited to add, I would be very suspect of any over seas buyer if they "just" wanted a pet and had no valid reason to want your pet. It is very costly to ship them so would not make snece for the normal pet home.