shortstep

Sorry been away so just catching up. So Mita is this what is happening in the Gold Coast plan you are promoting for the rest of the state and country? Are ANKC Accredited breeders exempt from paying for and qualifying and just being handed the licnense? BTW can youtell me how many ANKC breeders have got the license under your plan in your shire? How many have been denied? How many ANKC breeders have not even applied? When you got your license to breed, did you have nay problems? How many breeding dogs do you have and how many litters will you be breeding using your new license?

Exactly, that is what I am trying to get a bit of understanding on. It is not any breed in particular, it is just trying to understand the colour a little better. It does seem to happen in a fair number of breeds and is even popular in some breeds. I have just not been able to gather any information on how it breeds forwards or otherwise. One difference I think I can see in the seal vs a sable is the seal almost has a bay horse effect. Body basicly brown with increasing black down towards the bottom of the legs, tail and the face (face could be a mask gene however) but certainly the leg colouration does look different to sables, atleast in my limited experience. Now heavy sable I am not sure, I think of ger sheps, with a very heavy black overlay, but I do not think of brown hair on the body, more a cream or tan undercoat, or even cream or tan makings as in a tri giving the opposit effect as a seal. Is that right? Edited to add, I am not even sure that seal actually has incresing black, it might be just increasing darkness of pigment but not black?? Where sable would have black??

Yes I read that last night. The colour is found in several breeds and is very common in some breeds. However I can not seem to find anything that tells me how it breeds. The dog I was looking at had a black parent and an ee red parent (however I suppose it might be possible the ee was really a clear sable?) On web site said it was related to sable, as they had only found it when sables were in the mix of parents (but how big a survey this was..who knows). However, when I first saw the seal dog, sable was what came to mind. So maybe what this person is calling Seal is in fact some sort of sable and not the Seal found in the sight hounds and bull/terrier breeds? That is why I would like to hear from breeders/owners of breeds that carry this colour. I am sure they would have information on how it breeds, would be very interested in how it related to crosses with other colours, even if antidotal. Many of the bull and some of the terrrier breeds, sight hounds and collie breeds seem to have this colour, I am sure there are other breeds.

Thanks, Sorry but I am confused, I did not find (nor can Google find) the word seal on that page. Can you point out which part of the information would apply to Seals? Or are you meaning I need to buy the breeding program they are selling to find out about the colour seal?

Hi, Can anyone explain seal and the inheritance of the coat colour seal. Is it a simple recessive, incomplete dominance or ?? It is affecting a black base colour? Does it affect ee red or chocolate, sable or brindle? How to tell the difference between seal and some of the forms of sable? Any thing else to help me understand this coat colour. Thanks heaps.

Hi, You might want to start on this web site. http://www.deafdogs.org/training/ Lots of pages to read through with lots of ideas and advice. You may find some support at this web site http://www.petswithdisabilities.org/ Also this might help, videos of training deaf dogs http://www.google.com.au/search?q=deaf+dog...ved=0CEkQqwQwBw There is lots more on the web to give you ideas on how you might want to train your dog. When looking for a school make sure they use only positive training methods, and you might sped a little tome on the web reading about positive training you can make the judgement if what they are teaching is positive.

If you mean AWBC, I already said but will past it again here. AWBC web site is down right now being rebuilt. Anyone wanting to reach them for information can reach them at 02 6543 7885 or AWBC <[email protected]> The best place to find about the dogs in the pedigree of your pup is to ask the breeder. There is no web site where you can look them up. You can put their names in goggle and see if anything comes up.

Not having seen a draft of this legislation, your guess is as good as mine at this stage. Would like to think that ALL dog breeders are more accountable for the welfare of the animals themselves, in the same way that registered breeders have to work to the code of ethics and not over breed etc, but this will depend on what the final wording is in the legislation. Ok I will take your word for it Souff.

O know I can't wait for this to go through. We can all go pick up next pup at the lcoal shopping center pet store and have full assurance that Anna Bligh says it has been bred by a licensed puppy mill! Well, if you cant get rid of puppy farmers and pet shops because of the protection they enjoy through taxation and trade practices legislation, then you might as well resign yourself to the fact that at least this type of state legislation has some form of accountability in place to rein them in a bit. Not a lot of room to move Shortstep, when you consider that some of the puppy farmers in the past have in fact been registered breeders. There is no magic bullet but at least this legislation is not yet done and dusted and if dog breeders are half smart they will ensure that their voices are heard before the ink is dry. Souff So what accountablity exactly will it place on puppy mills and ANKC breeders who breed one litter a year?

I know I can't wait for this to go through. We can all go pick up our next pup at the local shopping center pet store and have full assurance that Anna Bligh says it has been bred by a licensed puppy mill!

Yes that is true but it is also true the wet snow will stick to almost anything, anything hanging will get little balls of snow, which become big balls of snow. I know as I used to have to deal with it. Also can clump up on their feet if the hair is not trimed. Personally I like the rough coat and it suited where I lived before just fine. Here it is a bit of a pain. Right now if I take my dogs out to gather the paddock I have to do a very through comb out right after words or we are at the vet a few days later to get a grass seed taken out of some part of their body. To get out all the grass seeds will take me about 1 hour for about 10 min of paddock time. So I can see why a farmer would not want to be doing this. For me it is not that big of deal, my dogs are pets first and are not in the paddocks much this time year anyway due to snakes. The coat on your grand champion was beautiful! In fact he was beautiful all around. Can I ask a silly questions and likely very far off base, but is he related to Naroff (hope I spelled that right) dogs? I have looked at their site a few times and met a few of their dogs and he just reminds me of them in the front end, head neck shoulder area. Very nice.

Well they can but it should be viewed as a fault according to the standard. Why is it like that in the standard? I have no idea. It is one of the things in the standard that I don't agree with. OK, thanks. It seems strange to me. Most of our working eye dogs (working B.C. and the very closely related N.Z.H.D) have short coats. Seems strange to me that these dogs would be "wrong" in Aussie. Perhaps the long coat is preferable in Scotland/England for some reason, and maybe it's better in Aussie for some reason? But the cockies here definitely seem to prefer short coats on their workers, all other things being equal, so I'm glad our standard allows it. I would say smoth coats are by far prefered in Australia, also a must in the hot or grassy areas of the US and Canada such as the west and central areas, and they are also prefered in soughtern europe africa and south america. We need to remember that the border collie is used world wide for sheep cattle and goats and is the most popular of the working breeds right now. However a lot of people just really like the ease of care and will have nothing else except smooth coats no matter where they live or do with their dogs, many in dogs sports prefer the smooth coat both in looks (looks more sporty and stealth) and ease of of upkeep. Some people believe the rough coats are better in the wet and snow, but that is not really always the case. Wet snow binds to long hair and can really be a problem on a working dog, they also take much longer to dry off so stay cold longer and in strong winds such as in the fells this can be very seriouse. Anyway the bottom line is that it is still a working dog and varity of coats are needed to suit the conditions of it's work and the handlers opinions. There have always been smooth, rough and all lenghts inbetween, and there always will be.

I would think both. I would recommend AWBC if you plan to breed or you are not going to trial and only want to pay for one registry. If you are going to trial then you will need to do SWA, but I would still recommend AWBC if you plan to breed. AWBC web site is down right now being rebuilt. Anyone wanting to reach them for information can reach them at 02 6543 7885 or AWBC <[email protected]>

Just to be clear, the state Sheepdog Workers Associations are not purebred stud books for border collies or any breed. Anyone that trails with them has to register their dog. They register all sorts of breeds, cross breeds and unknown heritage dogs. This is not a transferable pedigree to any working border collie studbooks around the world (ABCA CBCA ISDS). Nor do they certify or verify pedigrees. The Australia Working Border Collie Registry (AWBC) is the purebred studbook for border collies in Australia (it is the same as the WKC for kelpies that you might use). They only register verifiable purebred border collies of working bloodlines. AWBC is internationally transferable/acceptable to the ABCA American Border Collie and the CBCA Canadian Border Collie and currently gaining approval for acceptance with ISDS. Besides veryifying pedigrees as true and correct and the dog is a purebred border collie, they also issue certified pedigrees for dogs being transfered to other registires around the world. This is the only registry for purebred working border collies in Australia that is accepted into the main working registries in the world, allowing OZ dogs to go to the US, Canada, UK and points beyond and be registered/accepted in their new countires stud book. This would then also allow that same dog or it's offspring after being registered in the new countires working registry to then be registered in the kennel club in that country, including AKC US, CKC/CBCA parent club Canada or The Kennel Club UK. Many dogs at 3 sheep trail in Australia will be purebred border collies and registered AWBC or ABCA ISDS or another border collie registry. In much the same way as kelpies at a three sheep trial could also be purebred and registered in the WKC. Hope that makes sense. On the other hand, many dogs at a sheepdog trail (so would have to be registered in the state sheepdog workers associations) would not be able to register with AWBC registry as the dogs do not have purebred pedigrees, have pedigrees that indicate they are a different breed, or a cross breds, or have incomplete pedigrees with missing ancestors or the ancestors that are listed are unknown and never registered. There will also be many dogs at trails that could be registered as purebred working border collies with AWBC but the owners do not bother or do not want to spend the money on official international accepted registration. All of the above can also apply to farm dogs, from purebred and properly registered, to pedigrees/breeds unknown.

You know that was not very nice at all. I have not said one rude thing to you and have been very nice. Really Jules I do not care what you believe. But I do want others reading this to know that the working dogs in Australia are not freaks, they are not unrecognizable from their UK brothers. They are well worth a look at if anyone is thinking of getting a working dog or thinking of importing new bloodlines to other places in the world. So on this note I suggest we leave it at that, unless you want to comment any more on the Australian working dogs as in comparison to ISDS dogs from trials you saw as a child. No I am not going to let you get away with that. You spent god knows how long to find a photo so you could accuse me of only liking " pretty long coats flowing in the breeze" so don't be acting all innocent. Who the hell said freaks? Stop putting words into my mouth. Apologies to the OP. I was generally interested in finding out more about a certain type of working BC as I am disenchanted with some things to do with ANKC BC. Might just change breeds instead. Jules you have a chip on your shoulder. I have spent 30 years spending as you put it, god knows how much time learing about this breed. Today I takes me seconds to think of a dog that lived at a certain time. With the web being what it is, it only takes seconds more to find a photo. What takes me the longest is to double check the dates they won the Supreme or Nationals. I think this demonstrats that you have a wrong opinion about what I am doing. I am sorry you are disenchanted, but I also think it is good you recognize that. I am not sure what you mean by the different types of working border collies. If you want to identfy the types of working border collies you mean, I will do my best to discribe them and any difference I am aware of. That is the best I can offer, as I can not read your mind. Edited to Add, I never said you called them freaks.

As the post above said, US is difficult. In short, it takes 5 months in the US to ready a dog to go into 30 days quarrantine in Australia. You might to look in the Uk, Sweden, Finland, Norway. From there it is about 3 weeks to ready the dog and then 30 days quarrantine in OZ. Good luck with it and let us know what you decide to do.

You know that was not very nice at all. I have not said one rude thing to you and have been very nice. Really Jules I do not care what you believe. But I do want others reading this to know that the working dogs in Australia are not freaks, they are not unrecognizable from their UK brothers. They are well worth a look at if anyone is thinking of getting a working dog or thinking of importing new bloodlines to other places in the world. So on this note I suggest we leave it at that, unless you want to comment any more on the Australian working dogs as in comparison to ISDS dogs from trials you saw as a child.

Is her name Clinta, does she get a twinkle in her eye and say with a grin 'Go ahead make my day?' Sure looks that way to me. LOL

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials. http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials. Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here? Go back and look at all the pics of the Uk dogs and web sites of the OZ working dogs again. This dog is the only one you can not see it's body, so structure was not something that influenced your idea this was the correct way the dogs looked when you were a kid. They all had pricked ears, so that was not what did it. They all had pretty much the same markings, nothing out of the ordinary. But there was one thing this dog had that the other dogs did not have. I believe this is why you think this is like the dogs in your memory, it is a very full rough coated. Where as all the dogs in OZ and and all the dogs I showed you from the UK were smooth coated, and none of them looked right to you. Put a rough coat on the same dog and you would have thought it looked right. I assure you that the working dogs in Australia do not look any different from the working dogs in the UK or the working dogs in the US or Canada. There really is truth to the saying that form follows function and this is a good example of that. However almost all working border collies in OZ will have smooth or at least not a lot of coat. Where as in the UK working dogs you can and will see all types of coat. to suit the work or handlers ideas. BTW snow binds to long hair and can cause problems. Which explains why one of the smooth coated dogs I showed was from a very snowy part of Scotland. I think in your minds eye you love the roughs so that is all you remember seeing from your childhood, the pretty long coat flowing in the breeze. That however does not mean that all the dog in the UK had rough coats. About 50% are smooth coated and have been so as long as they have taken photos or done drawings of the breed.

Nice looking dog and very stylish in her work!

Lovely dog! How tall is he?

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials. http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials.

Queen Victoria's border collie named Sharp. And her other collie dogs. Lots of pic and history, this is a nice page. http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...enVictoria.html

You said that working dogs in OZ did not look like working dogs in the UK, No I didn't. Go and read again perhaps. You said Interesting info shortstep. Those dogs on the websites you listed look nothing like the dogs I remember from my childhood in the UK. I used to watch the sheep trials. So were have I said 'working' and I certainly wasn't a child in 2008. Ok I can see exaclty where you are coming from. So you said sheep trails so that I took to mean working dogs at sheepdog trails, but it is cear you did not way wokring dogs, you said you looked at sheep trials, which I guess could also mean sheep shows??? Is that what meant you went to sheep shows? Anyway, tell what years you were watching the sheep dogs or sheep trails in the UK, that had the dogs in the uk that do not look anything like the Oz dogs on the web sites. I will see if I can find some pics from thsoe years, please give me a 10 year span if it is very far back as there will not be a lot of photos from say the 70's or 80's. I'll just take a stab in the dark, 1982, 1983, 1985 National Champion Roy Smooth coated tri colour, his ears were also fully pricked but he is holding them down in this photo. http://www.bordercollieranch.com/images/ta...8-templeton.jpg Now this UK trial dog, that you might have seen at a sheep trial in the UK, looks like he could be on the paddock in Australia, he looks just like the dogs on the OZ web sites that I posted, that you said Those dogs on the websites you listed look nothing like the dogs I remember from my childhood in the UK. I used to watch the sheep trials.

You said that working dogs in OZ did not look like working dogs in the UK, No I didn't. Go and read again perhaps. You said Interesting info shortstep. Those dogs on the websites you listed look nothing like the dogs I remember from my childhood in the UK. I used to watch the sheep trials. So were have I said 'working' and I certainly wasn't a child in 2008. Ok I can see exaclty where you are coming from. So you said sheep trails so that I took to mean working dogs at sheepdog trails, but it is cear you did not way wokring dogs, you said you looked at sheep trials, which I guess could also mean sheep shows??? Is that what meant you went to sheep shows? Anyway, tell what years you were watching the sheep dogs or sheep trails in the UK, that had the dogs in the uk that do not look anything like the Oz dogs on the web sites. I will see if I can find some pics from thsoe years, please give me a 10 year span if it is very far back as there will not be a lot of photos from say the 70's or 80's.