shortstep

OK thanks! If something turns up would ge great to read it, I am just on the outlook for any movement in the area of making participation ins dog sports an act of cruelty, there are actually a lot of animal right folks who think this. There has been some activity in the area of rhetoric and public statements planting the idea, as you said not true stements making it look like something it is not and do not to forget the recent RSPCA ban on flyball at their activites in SA because playing with a ball was dangerouse. All dog owners need to keep very alert on this topic.

I would be very interested in this editorial letter on dog sports being cruel. Is there an chance you could run down this story or give me the approx date and the paper and the papers location it was published in?? thanks

HI, Yes it is very good news. I am excited to think that AWBC will be functioning at the same level and with ISDS, ABCA and CBCA. This is very welcomed, and will serve both Australian breeders and working breeders around the world. Some one just contacted me to question if there was a demand for Australia Working Border Collies. I explained that a few years ago, in California, an Australian Working Border Collie fully trained for cattle work, sold for what would have been around $40,000.00 Au dollars at the time. Quality trained stock dogs are always in high demand around the world. Quality bloodlines, especially those proven to reproduce well are also sought after. Working Border Collies are also found trailing, doing agility and other sports/activities at the highest levels.

This has just been approved and a formal announcement and details will be made in the next month or so. ISDS will soon be accepting AWBC registration for parentage on ISDS litters. ISDS does require CEA testing and they will require a 3 generation AWBC certified pedigree, among other conditions. This is great news, as now Australian working border collie offspring can be registered in America (ABCA), Canada (CBCA) and now ISDS in the UK, (and most European countries through ISDS). This is great news for Australians as there are more and more ISDS dog owners in Australia (both in ANKC and out side of ANKC) and interest is growing. Working dog breeders can now breed ISDS registered litters using qualified Australian Working Border Collies, or by crossing Australian Working Border Collie lines to American, Canadian or UK lines. It will also open up for export some of the best working dogs and semen in the world, as AWBC dogs will now be able to produce offspring that can be registered abroad. ISDS is gaining the genetic diversity our gene pool has to offer, with some lines of dogs that have been separated from their original ISDS gene pool for potentially up to 80 maybe more years! ISDS, ABCA anc CBCA breeders can now import AWBC semen or dogs, allowing for the opertunity to add new bloodlines to their breeding programs or to purchase a quality stock dog for use or trialing.

Here are the numbers ANKC pup registration 1990 87,768 pups registered 2010 66,040 pups registered In the past 20 years, a drop of 21,728 ANKC pups. Yet the number of mix bred, cross bred and unregistered pups born in Australia each year has increased dramatically (some say by 100's of thousands a year) which is very hard to pin down as they are all unregistered BYB breeders and puppy fams. There is no question that the constant attacks on purebred dogs and the (inadvertant??) promotion of puppy farms and BYB by animal rights groups, the unis, the government, the AVA may well bring an end to purebred dogs in Australia. Is it not possible that the drop of ANKC reg pups is due to the ANKC organisations and breed clubs weeding out those breeders who shouldn't have been breeding anyway? Or stopping breeders from doing a litter that should have never of been done in the first place? Don,t you think that a lot of the decrease could be due to: The introduction of limited registration. (Stopping pet owners from registering the pups from "pet only" parents) The introduction of having to do a basic course in animal husbandry to gain a prefix and registering pups The introduction of various mandatory health tests? The introduction of various optional health testing that should be mandatory. A greater knowledge of the genetics involved in breeding dogs by breeders. Then you have the dissemination of information now. With the electronic world that we live in now, information is so much easier to access. With this knowledge, breeding choices have become more informed. Just a different line of thought to ponder. Kraigoaks Well could be, do you have any evidence to that effect? It could also be that many people do not want to be held liable for puppies that they breed. It could be that many people have decided there is no bennifit in being a member of the ANKC (not the best of reputations these days). Could be that many breeders are no longer interested in breeding for show ring and are joining other registries that better meet their needs. Or is could be that many breeders just have quit due to negative public perceptions and very few are coming along to take their place. All we know for sure is that purebred dog breeding is taking a big dive in numbers and that what ever we are doing to try to counter act this is not helping, at least not yet.

Maybe that is a special service for their Catholic dogs?

Here are the numbers ANKC pup registration 1990 87,768 pups registered 2010 66,040 pups registered In the past 20 years, a drop of 21,728 ANKC pups. Yet the number of mix bred, cross bred and unregistered pups born in Australia each year has increased dramatically (some say by 100's of thousands a year) which is very hard to pin down as they are all unregistered BYB breeders and puppy fams. There is no question that the constant attacks on purebred dogs and the (inadvertant??) promotion of puppy farms and BYB by animal rights groups, the unis, the government, the AVA may well bring an end to purebred dogs in Australia.

LOL Yes I guess you are right, I would think that the Governement and ANKC would at least pick an Australian company. Think of using somthing like this. First you select 3 possible stud dogs. Then you have to contact each stud owner and say.... "Your dog is in the runing but I need to compare his DNA and 2 other possible studs and the dog least like my bitch will be selected as per the government madated Genetic Diversity Murchantable Dog Breeder Laws. Can you take your dog to your vet to have it's blood drawn and send if off to the lab, I will pay your vet bill with my Visa. I'll let you know if your dog wins. I am pretty sure your sort of like a British Bull Dog will be the least like my sort of like a Shih Tzu and we will soon be making cute little registered ANKC sort of like Bull Shih'ts! " Wonder what 4 DNA tests and the comparisons costs? I see they did not list it on the web site.

http://www.marsveterinary.com/breederservices.html Guess they beat our local Uni's to it, but I suppose they can patent their own test, which the Government can make part of a maditory EBV program for all licensed breeders, and then ANKC will make it maditory to report the test results so they can be listed on the pedigree (with the recommended range listed) so the buyer is aware of the genetic diversity of the pup they are buying. All of this information will go to help put a price on the government required insurance policy we have to supply for the puppy's owner. Was it really only 10 steps in the plan...LOL

Do you really believe that? Where will the police, customs, guide dogs, assistance dogs etc source their dogs from? OK I will play the Why game. Why do these sorts of jobs require purebred dogs over cross bred desigener dogs made for these jobs, or even better why not dogs selected from the animal shelter? Why do we as selfish humans inslave any dog purebred or not purebred, to do these jobs? That is what animal rights groups would answer to your WHY. Why do people think that you can have animal rights groups and the government direct and manage how dogs are to be bred and anyone in their right mind would want to step into that no win situation? These sort of jobs have a strict criteria- physical and mental. They need dogs that have a proven history of success and certain temperament traits. They also require a specific size of dog (for police and guide dogs) and many need to very sensitive puppy-raising period, in order to get the best out of the dog. You can't get these from cross bred dogs or shelter dogs. Is it not more selfish to let humans suffer without the aid of an assistance dog? Many of these dogs are also loving companions for their handlers and enjoy their work. But who is going to bred them? My hand it not up, I don't want to breed government controlled, merchantable quality dogs. However, I am sure the puppy farms will be very interested. Just write out the governement breeding plans, set up the license and inspections programs, state how much they will get paid for merchantable quaility pups for service work, place your orders and they will breed all the dogs you want.

Does anyone have a phone number for Dr Roger Lavelle? You can PM me if you prefer. Thanks

Do you really believe that? Where will the police, customs, guide dogs, assistance dogs etc source their dogs from? OK I will play the Why game. Why do these sorts of jobs require purebred dogs over cross bred desigener dogs made for these jobs, or even better why not dogs selected from the animal shelter? Why do we as selfish humans inslave any dog purebred or not purebred, to do these jobs? That is what animal rights groups would answer to your WHY. Why do people think that you can have animal rights groups and the government direct and manage how dogs are to be bred and anyone in their right mind would want to step into that no win situation?

So sorry to hear your news. There are many reasons a dog can start to have seizures in their older years besides a brain tumor, and many of these causes can be treated. Here are just a few from the web site listed below. 6.1 Hypoglycemia. A dog with hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) usually has seizures prior to feeding when their blood sugar or glucose levels are at a low level. The signs of hypoglycemia depend on 1) level of the blood glucose and 2) the rate the glucose level drops. Some of the causes of hypoglycemia are: a pancreatic tumor that produces an insulin like substance liver disease cortisone deficiency diabetic dogs that obtain an insulin overdose Seizures are occasionally observed in hunting dogs during periods of excessive activity. 6.2 Hypocalcemia. This is an endocrine disorder (affects electrolyte, calcium, magnesium, and phosphorous) that is characterized by low levels of calcium. Typically the acceptable range of calcium levels from the blood serum chemistry is in the range of 8.5 to 11.0 (mg/dl). Loss of appetite in a dog will cause the calcium levels to decrease which in turn may cause seizures. Some dogs may develop muscle weakness early in the disease. Another symptom of hypocalcemia is cataracts. 6.3 Hypoxia or Hypoxemia. Hypoxia (Hypoxemia) is a condition of low blood oxygen levels that results in reduction in the capability of the red blood cells to carry oxygen. It may be the result of a disease of the lungs that prevents an adequate supply of oxygen getting to the brain thus causing seizures. 6.4 Hepatic Encephalopathy or Liver Disease. Excess ammonia in the blood from liver disease may be a cause of seizures. Measurements of blood ammonia provides a truly reliable test to identify a dog with liver disease. According to the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine Book of Dogs, "It is the only test that can determine whether clinical signs of central nervous system dysfunction can be attributed to liver disease (hepatic encephalopathy)". Of all the signs of liver disease, anorexia (reduced food intake) is the first to appear and it too is a sign of hepatic encephalopathy. Portasystemic Shunts also known as Portacaval Shunt(s) fall into this category. This is the abnormal communication between the portal vein (coming from the gastrointestinal tract) and the vein which carries blood back to the heart (known as the posterior vena cava). During fetal life, the communication is normally there but shortly after birth it may close off. When the communications fail to close properly, the vessels serve as shunts so that portal blood flow does not pass through the liver for processing or detoxification before being delivered to the rest of the body. Small breeds such as Yorkshire Terriers, Maltese and Miniature Schnauzers are commonly affected by this. The signs will usually appear before 1 year of age. Some of the signs are: depression, seizures, ataxia (incoordination), vomiting, polydipsia (excessive thirst) and retarded growth. Blood chemistry panel results are usually normal. The best way to diagnose this is by performing an ammonia tolerance test. Diagnosis can be confirmed by an X-ray. The condition can be alleviated with dietary management or partial surgical closure of the shunt. (UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine Book of Dogs provided the information for the above descripition.) 6.5 Renal (kidney)disease. Kidney disease and kidney failure are two different conditions. The kidney fails when it is unable to perform its function of cleansing the blood of impurities. A kidney disease may hamper the kidneys from performing but it is still able to remove impurities from the blood. Uremia is a condition when there are high levels of urea nitrogen in the blood, other nitrogenous waste products in the blood, and the body pH falls below 7.0. The bodies buffering mechanisms that are under the control of the kidneys regulate the acidity in the blood and the body itself. High acidic levels of the body or acidosis may be the cause of seizures. The seizures are the result of the buildup of toxins (high nitrogen levels) in the blood. Uremia occurs at the terminal stages of kidney failure. It may also cause the body temperature to lower and may increase the respiratory rate. On page 270 of the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine Book of Dogs, the authors state "Failure to initiate therapy in a timely manner will result in irreversible damage to kidney tissue and ultimately death". Part of a complete blood work-up is the chemistry analysis. Included in that are the blood urea nitrogen (BUN) and creatinine, the two most common tests used to evaluate kidney performance. The normal BUN range for an adult dog is 10 to 25 (MG/DL) with the average being 17.5. The range for the creatinine is 1.0 to 2.2 (MG/DL) with the average being 1.6. 6.6 Hyperkalemia Hyperkalemia is the condition of a high concentration of potassium in the blood. Another term for this condition is Addison's disease. The heart rate of a dog suffering from hyperkalemia may be slower than normal. The condition may show itself as a generalized weakness in the dog and the condition becomes worse with exercise. 6.7 Hyperlipoproteinemia. Dr. de Lahunta's text Veterinary Neuroanatomy and Clinical Neurology has a small paragraph on this disorder but we were unable to find this disorder as it is spelled or described in any of the other veterinary texts we own. He states that "defective lipid metabolism" causes this disorder. Lipids are classified as simple and complex. Simple lipids do not contain fatty acids. Complex lipids are essentially fatty acids and include glycerides, glycolipids, phospholipids, and waxes (ear wax). Lipids can combine with proteins to form lipoproteins. Apparently this disorder does not properly break down the fatty acids in the blood and the affected dog may have seizures. Dr. de Lahunta states that the Miniature Schnauzer is the most commonly affected dog. A high concentration of lipids (triglycerides) in the blood is known as hyperlipemia. Other clinical signs of hyperlipemia include dullness, poor appetite, and rapid loss of body condition. 6.8 Gastrointestinal disease ("garbage" poisoning). Decaying and rotten garbage may be a breeding ground for staphylococcal and or botulism toxins. These may cause central nervous system stimulation, i.e., seizures. 6.9 Tick Bites. We have discussed tick bites and two of their diseases - Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and Lyme Disease earlier. 6.10 Toxoplamosis (Toxo) The information that we obtained on Toxo comes by way of the internet. Toxo is a disease caused by a germ (protozan parasite - Toxoplasma gondii) and the most likely places of contact are cat feces, raw meet and uncooked vegetables. Approximately half of the people in the U.S. have the Toxo parasite, but the disease is dormant. This parasite is similar to giardia in that once a dog has giardia, it is dormant and may flare up at any time to affect the dog. Toxo has many symptoms and included in these are muscle spasms and seizures (neurologic difficulties). The symptoms worsen and the patient may go into a coma if the disease is not treated properly. The 2 most common drugs used in the treatment of Toxo are the combination of sulfadiazine and pyrimethamine. Depending on the dog's reaction to these drugs, other drugs may be substituted - clindamycin, dapsone, or doxycycline. In the winter of 1994 and 1995, Victoria B.C. experienced the world's largest outbreak of Toxo ever reported. back to the top http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Why.html

Good post Steve! Jed, I agree. 25 years ago, we knew there was an eye disease in our breed. We knew it was simple recessive, but had no way to know which dogs carried it. We all did eye exams on the adult parents, eliminated all affected dogs and kept extensive lists of dogs eye results, attempting to see what lines or combination of lines might be carrying the disease. Where was Jemima then, did she own dogs then? I have no idea. About 18-20 years ago we found out that very young dogs could have the disease but the symptoms faded and could not bee seen as they got older, so we started eye screening whole litters at 7 weeks of age just in case we might miss it. We also started to donate money to genetic eye research. The breeders of my breed were very self motivated to do what ever we could. Where was Jemima then? I do not remember the name. Then (was it maybe around 15 years ago) members of our breed got a DNA research project going, and we raised more money, year after year. We collected data on thousands of dogs, by offering eye examines. Where was Jemima then, was she making docos yet about how bad dog breeders were? Then the gene was found and a test was made!!!! (about 2002 from memory) We had what we needed at last, a way to prevent this disease, but Jemima missed the party. Still can't say that I had heard of Jemima by this time either. Since then thousands upon thousands of dogs have been tested. I can not think of breeder that is not eye testing the parents of their litters, can not think of any pups born with this disease since we had the test. A real victory for the breed, made possible by the dedicated breeders/owners who would not give up and with the help of those dedicated in science. Too bad Jemima has not reported a doco on this breeds wonderful success story (by self motivated breeders), not enough shock and horror I guess to sell another doco. So life goes on. We are now busy supporting research to find other genes for diseases our breed can have, and just as busy doing everything else we can to breed healthy and happy dogs. Jemima, her doco, nor her ongoing witch hunting efforts have not had anything to do with this.

What is it http://www.vetprof.com/clientinfo/juvenilerenal.html Patent pending on this very notable new reserch! Another break through towards better dog breeding on the way?? http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%...al.pone.0016684

And don't you love this rhetoric.... 'organisation overseeing the whole thing, which ensures dogs are of merchantable quality before being sold to the consumer.’ Yep that is what we need, dog breeders working under a government directed program to provide Merchantable Quaility dogs. I do hope the Uni will be working with these merchantable quality breeders to insure the latest and greatest in dog breeding trends and theories are being followed to the letter.

Can this be moved to the cruelty and animal abuse section please. Some of us really don't thrive on seeing these horrible things, so please keep them in the section that is for those who find it interesting and want to think, read about it and discuss it.

Jed Why? Who, how and when will they be taken away? I think you are underestimating the Environmental Imperative that is now facing us. All animals, great and small, must become sacrosanct. P. By/As the end result of people who use words like enviromental impertive and dogs in the same sentence. BTW Domestic animals are not Sacrosact to an enviromentalist. Anyway I have to go, time to take my SUV carbon equivalent for a run.

http://www.ourdogs.co.uk/News/2011/Feb2011/pedigree.htm Jemima Harrison Pedigree Dogs Exposed gets Exposed. JEMIMA HARRISON has hardly been out of the headlines since the transmission of her PDE programme which caused such a furore. However, it now appears that she has created her own headline after a top winning dog was the subject of wildly inaccurate accusations. In emails to a top breeder Ms Harrison admits that her own research and accuracy has been found wanting. Attending the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare (APGAW) in December 2010, Ms Harrison not only prepared a damning and inaccurate two page document for circulation at the meeting but also has admitted transmitting it electronically. The meeting, which was devoted entirely to the breeding of dogs and dangerous dogs, featured attendees from the Kennel Club, the National Dog Wardens' Association, the RSPCA, the BVA, the Dangerous Dogs Act Study Group and Jemima Harrison of Passionate Productions. Speaking at the meeting, the minutes of which are in the public domain on the APGAW website, she said, ‘I made the Pedigree Dogs Exposed documentary and now I run a blog on pet owners who are experiencing problems. People don’t know how to buy a dog and where to go. We live in an age where we expect things we buy to be of merchantable quality. I have had recent examples of poor Shar Pei breeding, where the current top show dog has both parents having suffered from heredity disease, and yet the dog continues to be bred from. Not much is done if a disease or problem is identified, so I want to say don’t underestimate the scale of this problem and I think the problem is that ultimately we do not have an organisation overseeing the whole thing, which ensures dogs are of merchantable quality before being sold to the consumer.’ On the leaflet she prepared about the Shar Pei, one of the 15 high profile breeds recently designated for special treatment by the Kennel Club, Harrison had cut and pasted unprotected images from the Kennel Club's Crufts website and that of the Shar Pei Club of Great Britain, and also incorporated these same photographs of Shar Pei ‘Wrink’ on her internet blog. However, the inclusion of the Crufts 2010 Best of Breed Ch/Am Ch Asias Red Marsh Whip It Good, proved to be a big mistake. Resolute Just four days after the meeting in the House of Commons, one of the co-owners of the American imported dog, Tim Ball, received a copy of the document, addressed to both him and Joy Bradley (another co-owner), anonymously in the post. Initially believing this to be a malicious act, they very quickly realised this was, in fact, a very friendly act which was intended to give them the opportunity to defend their Shar Pei. It was however, the first they were to know about this document and the spurious accusations contained in it about Wrink. It would be impossible to describe the utter distress, pain and ultimately anger that these allegations caused Tim and Joy as individuals, and equally as devotees of the breed. Both have been actively involved in the breed since the early 80s. Tim is currently a Vice President and Honorary life member of the Shar Pei Club of Great Britain and Joy is the club secretary. They devote much time and effort to promoting the breed, with health foremost in their endeavours. It was abhorrent to them to be accused of proliferating a disease that they are, in fact, at the forefront of raising funds for research into the very condition they are accused of ignoring. Resolute in the knowledge that their ward was not as he was being portrayed, they set about getting the evidence to prove just how spurious these accusations were and, with little effort, were able to disprove every false statement made about the dog and his lineage. It seems incredulous that the author of this leaflet could not have achieved the same result with very little research required to do so. At no time, prior to the publication of the document, were any of Wrink’s owners contacted to comment on the information collated by Ms Harrison from her ‘reliable source’, something surely so fundamental that any researcher/presenter would hold it paramount before rushing into any sort of print. Information was, almost immediately, forthcoming from within the Kennel Club that the author had already recanted the spurious allegation that Wrink had produced puppies with Familial Shar Pei Fever. Very soon after that, Wrink’s co-breeder and co-owner, Lisa Myers, had received a full apology from Ms Harrison, admitting the totally erroneous remarks about his parents both having died of amyloidosis. In actual fact, Wrink’s father (and grandfather) had both been shown at the recent Chinese Shar Pei Club of America’s National Specialty in Lawrence, Kansas, both as veterans and both in beautiful bloom. Wrink’s dam is deceased, but had died in a tragic accident some years previously at the home of Lisa, sadly while she was elsewhere. At this point, even though Ms Harrison was now in possession of the full and correct facts, she still failed to contact either of the English owners, a fact which totally disgusted both of them. All the allegations had been shown to be unfounded but no contact from her was forthcoming, and this fact alone prompted the first contact between Tim and Ms Harrison. Replying just a few hours later, Ms Harrison sent an email back to Tim Ball saying that an apology was clearly owed and another one for not pre-empting his email and getting in touch with him before he contacted her. Jemima also said that the flyer was based on what she believed to be good information from a reliable source. However, she clearly realised it wasn't and went on to apologise for any distress caused. She also told Tim that she had strong views about the Shar-pei, as was clear from her blog. She said that she believed that the conformation needed to change and that the breed was ‘juggling a lot of health problems with, unfortunately, no test available currently for one of the breed's biggest problems.’ She stated she was ‘normally very careful about naming particular dogs’ - not least because she was aware that world of dogs was is awash with misinformation and, if ‘I get it wrong, it discredits me as a commentator.’ She said that the flyer was never intended for publication. ‘It was prepared for a small meeting’ she said, ‘I took only five copies of it with me and returned with two, so it had very limited distribution at the meeting.’ She said that she had then sent it electronically to the same three people and one other, none of whom should have forwarded it to anyone and none of whom were in Shar-peis. However, she admitted that this was ‘no excuse’ for getting the facts wrong in this instance. ‘I really should have checked it more thoroughly,’ she told Tim. Errors Ms Harrison said that as soon as soon as she found out the mistake, she had contacted the four people who had copies of the flyer, pointing out the errors, and asked them to not forward it to anyone, so there should not be any further distribution. She concluded: ‘I am very pleased to hear that Wrink's sire is still alive and going strong; also that he has been health-tested for hips/patella and thyroid (and I can see from the OFA database that his results were good). Do you also test him for urine/kidney function - I see this is recommended by Dr Jeff Vidt but am not sure if it is standard procedure/considered necessary by breeders.’ She agreed that she herself would be ‘furious too’ in the same situation and completely understood why the owners were upset. She finished by saying: ‘I really am so sorry for getting the facts wrong in this instance and I very much hope you will feel able to accept this apology.’ Electronic It is difficult to understand how anyone can say, ‘it was never meant for publication’ when the very same document was taken to a ‘small meeting’ – a full meeting of the APGAW at the House of Commons, and admits to sending it electronically. As a direct result of Ms Harrison placing this information into the realm of electronic communication, all control of who read it was lost and the furore began. To cast such aspersions on any individual dog without substantiated evidence seems wanton, but to select a dog purely because of its success in the show ring is despicable. As his owners told OUR DOGS: ‘Wrink is probably the most health tested Shar Pei in this country and come the day when the test for FSF/Amyloidosis is available, he will be first in line to ultimately prove what we already believe.’ Although Tim and Joy have been subjected to this onslaught of character assassination and their ethics questioned, they wholeheartedly thank the person who sent them the document and they remain resolute in working towards the betterment of the breed they cherish and Wrink will continue to do what he does best – enjoy life! Speaking to OUR DOGS last week Tim Ball and Joy Bradley pointed out that the Shar Pei they had been fortunate to co-own and campaign in the UK show ring had been one of the breed's most successful show dogs of all time, as well as being an absolute pleasure to live with. ‘Wrink’ was BIS at Bath Championship Show last year, has won five Groups and multiple Group placings, has 21 CCs to his credit and was Group 2 at last month's Manchester Dog Show Society Championship show. In addition, he was Top Utility 2010 and last year was ranked eighth overall across all breeds. How so much unsubstantiated information was gathered is worrying given that it was placed before many senior members of the APGAW presumably including Professor Sheila Crispin. OUR DOGS contacted Ms Harrison on Monday this week, and late on Tuesday afternoon; after further calls from OUR DOGS Ms Harrison declined to comment.

I wish we could stick on topic, this is not about deafness and not about tails. However, I too have thought for years that congenital sensorial deafness was related to lack of pigment, be that piebald, spotted or ticking genes, or any of the white patterns including white head patterns, and blue eyes. I think it will be connected to at least some of these lack of pigment genes. But that does not explain everything. There are many cases in many breeds where there have been CSD pups and they have almost no white. Border collies is one breed where this happens. I know of dog that had only a speck of white on the tip of its tail yet was born totally deaf. This dog had a black head, and it had solid black pigment on the roof of the mouth, (an old wives tail on how to avoid deaf dogs), this dog only had about 20 white hairs on the tip of its tail, how on earth could it be so unlucky to have all the pigment removed from it's cells in the ear, yet 99.9 5 of body was black? Can this really only be a random almost unblieveable bad luck case of lack of pigment placement? There are also breeds of dogs are all white or almost all white and they have very little deafness in the breed, not even close to rates of affected dogs we see with Dals, ACDs and a few other breeds. How can this be, they should have the same rate of deafness. Consider why would a study show that females are more often deaf then males if it is only the white colour genes and an unlucky draw on where pigment was removed? There are many discrepancy and facts that do not make it a simple answer, it is not just white coloration genes or blue eyes. There has to be a something more going on, that turns on or off genes and contribute to the disease being expressed. I would think anyone who had a breed affected with this form of deafness would want it to be something they could control. The thought of breeding deaf pups unless you breed out white genes is a pretty sad way to have to control it. Anyway as I said they are on working deafness now with the new screening methods and there have already been several break throughs, both in adult onset deafness and CSD. I hope they do find an associated gene that is increasing the rate of deafness in some breeds, and I hope we will see a day where we can test for that gene and avoid breeding deaf pups. As for tails and no tails, I full support docking of tails if that is what the breeder wants to do and it is done humanly (no pain to pup). However bob tail is a defective gene and a bob tail is a deformity of the spine in dogs, call it what you will. There have never been any homozygote bobs born, indicating that is also a lethal gene as they all fail to develop. Due to this you will never be able to have a breed/gene pool of dogs where there are no pups born without normal length tails. However the intoruduction of bob tail genes or the bredig of bob tial dogs should be decided by the breeder considering risk vs benefit for the pups and the breed as a whole. If Boxers tails are being broken and this is of greater risk to the pups than the introduction of a bob tail gene and all that goes with that introduction, then that is fine. Personally I think it is much better to have boxers with tails and dock them. This is why I said I still see this as different to the introduction of a normal gene to prevent kidney disease in Dals. There is nothing wrong with Boxers so you do not need to introudce a gene, just dock their tails as has always been done. Just my opinion. As you know I do not favor any government intervention in dog breeding and that is why I think it is valuable to have discussions on these topics. I would rather see dog breeders working out good solutions to problems such as kidney disease in Dals, than have the government make laws about it. As you know this has already happened in Victoria, so it is a real threat. I think we all need to consider that our breed may be in a situation such as this and it is helpful to start forming decisions about what we think is the right path of future dog breeding. Back on topic. Are there any Dals in Australia that have the Kidney disease free genes? If someone was to import one can they be registered in ANKC, or are they banned here? If they are banned here, was their a vote by the breeders of dals to ban them? Why are they accepted in the UK, how did it come to happen? Are they accepted in the northern European countires such as Norway, Sweden and Finnland?

Do u mean EIC ? I know it is a relatively new test. Some breeders have had their dogs tested, and others think its a waste of money and arent bothering to do it. It isn't compulsory. I had the opportunity to have a test done on my young boy. I got a deal on coat colour test and the EIC test. To be honest, I only really had it done as his father turned out to be a "carrier" and as he is planned for the future I wanted to know. Thankfully he came back clear (yah) But there does seem to be a fair few dogs that are being tested as being "carriers". Not sure how many are actually "affected" though. Dont think there is enough being tested to get an actual picture of what is going on. Maybe in spite of what was posted about PRA, maybe those not chosing to do it are right and that it is a waste of money. Labradors have been around a long time before EIC popped up..... so dont think its "that" detrimental. But time will tell. I think hip and elbow scoring and PRA testing (as long as it is accurate ) is much more of a priority as far as health testing. Yes EIC. I think there was some problems with dogs that were DNA affected not having any symptoms and dogs that were DNA normal or DNA carriers that did have symptoms. I think it was on DOL that I read about it. Can't remember for sure. I agree with having to decide what tests are most important to do. I do hips and elbows and 3 DNA tests. It is about $1200.00 to health test one dog. But once you get to DNA clear by parentage, then things are easier. I am hoping we get at least 2 more DNA tests for my breed.

That is incorrect Here is the website, if you would like correct information www.steynmere.com 4th generation is accepted as genetically pure, so I suppose it was accepted for the Dalmations too, by the governing body -- and I suppose some breeders will embrace it, and some will continue to state the dogs are crossbreds, and should not be registered Sorry Jed I do not know what you are saying that I said is incorrect. I was speaking to the concept of adding a gene for bobtail to a breed of dogs is not being done to prevent disease, which is not the same as adding normal genes to Dals to prevent kidney disease. The deafness is a seperate issue in dals. Can you tell me what you are saying I said that was incorrect? Here is the info from your link which is dated late 1990's and has to do with potential sex patterns seen in affected dogs. Deafness in Dalmatians: Does sex matter? References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article. J. L. N. Wood* and K. H. Lakhani Epidemiology Unit, Centre for Preventive Medicine, Animal Health Trust, P.O. Box 5, Newmarket Suffolk CB8 7DW UK Accepted 26 March 1998. Available online 14 July 1998. Abstract Recent studies on the prevalence of deafness in Dalmatians have reported vastly different gender effects on the prevalence. The diverse conclusions in these reports cover all possibilities, higher prevalence in males, no difference between genders and higher prevalence in females. Much of this confusion about the effect of gender on the Dalmatian's hearing status is due to the unsatisfactory statistical interpretation of the available data. Careful analysis of a large (n=1234) composite database on Dalmatians in the UK has provided a reliable assessment of the effect of gender on deafness. The overall rate of deafness in the tested Dalmatians was 18.4%, of which 13.1% were unilaterally deaf and 5.3% were bilaterally deaf. The overall deafness in females (21.1%) was significantly higher (p=0.014) than that in males (15.5%). In all subsets of the full dataset [subsets obtained by partitioning by testing locations, colour (black or liver spots), parental hearing status (normal or untested) and time (year of test)], the prevalence was higher in females compared with males. Unlike other studies, the confounding of the gender effect with other factors, particularly the parental hearing status, was avoided in the large, composite UK study. Because dogs from the same litter might be correlated with respect to their deafness status, the data were analysed further to take the random litter effect into account. This further emphasised the difference between genders. We believe that the reason for the prevailing confusion in the literature is that the unwary referees and readers give the same amount of credence to ‘not significant' results from small scale studies as they give to significant results from large scale studies and do not always recognize the absence of sound statistical methods. Not sure what I said that was disagree with this study. Here is another one, 2002 says that something more than colour is going on. Analysis of systematic effects on congenital sensorineural deafness in German Dalmatian dogs References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article. K. Juraschkoa, A. Meyer-Lindenbergb, I. Nolteb and O. Distl, , a a Institute of Animal Breeding and Genetics, School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover, Bünteweg 17p, 30559, Hannover, Germany b Clinic for Small Animals, School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover, Bischofsholer Damm 15, 30173, Hannover, Germany Accepted 24 September 2002. ; Available online 7 March 2003. Abstract We have analysed the systematic influences, phenotypic colour markers and the additive genetic variation for congenital sensorineural deafness (CSD) in German Dalmatian dogs in order to help elucidate the importance of phenotypic breed characteristics for genetic differences of CSD. Linear animal models using restricted maximum likelihood methods were employed to estimate variance components. Data were obtained from all three German Dalmatian kennel clubs associated with the German Association for Dog Breeding and Husbandry (VDH). CSD was recorded by standardized protocols for brainstem auditory-evoked response (BAER). The material included 1899 German Dalmatian dogs from 354 litters in 169 different kennels. BAER testing results were from the years 1986 to 1999. Pedigree information was available for up to seven generations. The animal model regarded the fixed effects of sex, coat colour, eye colour, presence of patches, litter size, percentage of examined puppies per litter, kennel club, and inbreeding coefficient. The common environment of the litter and kennel as well as the additive genetic effect of the animal were taken into account as randomly distributed effects. The fixed effects of eye colour, percentage of puppies examined per litter and kennel club were significant in the mixed model analysis. A significant proportion of additive genetic variation could be shown despite corrections for phenotypic colour variants. The heritability estimate for CSD in German Dalmatian dogs was h2=0.27±0.07. The additive genetic correlation of CSD with presence of blue eyes was rg=0.53±0.41 and with presence of patches rg=−0.36±0.24. We concluded that additional genes other than those associated with phenotypic colour markers in German Dalmatian dogs significantly contribute to the occurrence of CSD. The thing is, no one really knows what is going on and what is causing it, though white dogs dogs, dogs with spotting genes, dogs blue eyes, all seem to have more deafness than dogs without those triats. However they have now found an area of interest and I hope that something good soon will come from this. The new method of looking for genes is making a lot of progress possible on some of the diseases that have been very stubborn to solve in the past. It is not going to work for all of them, but there are going to a number of break throughs in the next few years. For example they think they have found the area that is causing adult onset deafness in some breeds, more work is being done but they are very hopefull this puzzle will be solved in the next few years. I think we will see lots of break thoughs in the next 5 years.

I can not find any rate published for Au, is there a datebank we can look at? I just took a look at the UK and it was, over all 18% of dals were born deaf, uni or bilateral, that was a several years ago (don't have time to look round more right now). Australia of course being a very isloated gene pool could have very different numbers. However world wide deafness is very common in dals and due to this it is very likely that most dogs carry the gene/genes that cause the disease to be expressed. (On a side note I would think that the reported affected rate of bilateral deaf dogs is very much under reported, as it is pretty easy for an exprienced breeder to tell if a pup is deaf and this pup would likely not make it to be BAER tested at 8 weeks old). However there is some reserch right now, and it may turn out to be very different to the assumptions we have now. Time will tell. But back to my point, if it is discovered that the only way to remove deafness in a breed of dogs is to cross out to another breed, will purebred breeders happily take that action to prevent breeding deaf pups?

Mind you, that's to create a cosmetic thing, in the Dallies it was about the health of the breed. I am not sure that is the case and really it just diverts the topic. Still, most docked tail breeders I know say that their dogs need to have docked tails for various reasons, that is not cosmetic. However, the underlying difference in bob tail vs the Dals disease is that the lack of bob tail gene is not a disease, and that was my point. Working to eliminate a disease that in a population of dogs by cross breeding is not the same goal or argument as the animal rights issue of docking tails being needed or should be banned.

OPPS! If I did that elsewhere let me know. Brain is old. I do not think the blue eye argument would stand up as a logical reason to refuse to let in the cross dogs that are disease free. Unless the Australians are claiming they have bred out the blue eye gene in their population and I think that could not be the case. Since the blue eyed gene is already in the population of Australia dalmatians, they simply can not show or breed blue eyed dogs, nothing would be changing the current deafness situation by using the crossed dogs. However one could also argue that allowing lots of big dark patches does seem to lower the risk of deafness ( correct me if I am wrong, I just remember reading this not too long ago). So if they wanted to breed in large patches then that would be taking an active step to reduce deafness in pups correct. The cross bred dogs might even help in that area. if any breeder did desire to to do that. Though deafness may bring the same solution and arguments again. We can all hope that deafness may become a non issue in the next several years, as there is some promising work going on that may enable breeders to breed right away from it. However with a 25% affected rate (again correct me if that is wrong) it is possible all dals will carry the deafness gene/s and it may take another outcross to bring in non defective genes. The same same arguments will come around again.