shortstep

Sorry I was typing this when you were saying that in the above post. Did the score reflect thickening/changes to the neck of the femer, any arthritis anywhere? Anyway, anything over 14 I would get a second opinion just because. I has xrays sent to Lavelle for the first time about 2 weeks ago and he scored them about where I thought they would come in, maybe just a bit higher (I would have said 1-3 and he said 2-4) but close enough to not worry about. You might want to try him. Was very quick to get them done and a nice guy to talk to.

My opinion for what it is worth, yes a new xray might lower them a bit but could also make for a bit higher score. She is a bit twisted or rotated in the hips. What scored did they get?

Can someone let us know what ANKC is doing about this, have they made a statement or posted an opinion? Has ANKC spoken to the AVA about this and how this will negatively affect ANKC gene pool by only further making more red tape and added expense to import new genetics into Australia? Perhaps MDBA can help Australian dog owners with this?

Spoke to my vet this morning who is a member of AVA. He has not received any notification of this vote. He promises to look into it but I plan to remind him again in a few days. Please speak to your vets about this as they too may not have been notifed of the vote.

Congratulation to all those who were nominated and tothe winners. Also a big congratulations to MDBA for putting on this fine event, which highlights the 'positives' in the Aussie world of dogs!

So did the trial assocition pay the vet to be there to do the collections or did he charge each person a fee? Also did they require microchips? Tatoo OK? Or no ID of dog was required?

Oh good then maybe those people up on christmas island will be refused entry because of the agressive behaviour they have displayed towards Australians. Not a chance.

I think it would end up you have to hire a certified behviourist who is approved by the government to do these tests. the tersts would be done prior to application for an import permit. I am thinking several hundered dollars for the test and paper work to be done. No test no import oermit. Just another expence for something that I am sure would not do anything to prevent dog attacks in Australia. It is any wonder things just keep getting worse. First question has to be; Just how many dogs that have attacked someone have been imported dogs? That would have made front page news. I bet the answer is none. Just another way to discourage importing dogs, as we know that is on the list of things the animal welfare people want to ban, the import and export of all domestic animals. BTW have the quarrantine stations got their leases sorted out yet, or are they just planning on closing some or all of them?

So who would pay for this? Who would be qualified to do the test? Can we select the testers? Can dogs be re tested by someone else if the dogs fails the test? Is this part of the government scheme to increase genetic diversity and lower COIs in dog breeding programs in Australia, but discouraging and increasing the already incredibly expensive process of meeting the existing Australian governments requirements to import dogs. What's a few more hundred when it already costs well over $10,000 to bring in a dog to Australia. Oh and BTW, just how many vicious dogs are being imported into Australia? Must be just scores of them for vets across the country to so worry about it that every dog imported needs to be screened.

Similar to what we do here. We have had DNA collection available (with negotiated reduced rates for some testing) at quite a few trials recently. Can you tell me the names of a couple of these trials, and who was doing the actual collection? For CEA CL TNS? I am keen to get a couple of examples to pass on to someone who is interested.

I take deposits and have done so for over 13 years. I start to reserve a litter up to 2 years in advanced by buyers request, and by my request 1 year in advance. I have never kept a deposit if someone did not get a pup in the end, but that is a rare event. I do this as I want to know I have the right homes already arranged and waiting for the pups before they are born. If I can not arrange this over the year preceding their birth then I would not breed the litter. The new owners like this too. These are folks who usually know exactly what they want in their next pup. They can plan well ahead. They know they are on to get a pup from the litter they really want. They get to enjoy the whole process of breeding, preg, birth and raising of the pups as I keep in contact with them sending reports and photos. I also usually plan well ahead for the pups I buy and have no problem leaving a deposit to secure my place. I would much rather plan ahead and work with the breeder to get just the right pup.

This wiki article is quite informative although it doesn't give dates. It's interesting to see how many breeds listed are recognised by one or two registries and not others. this is a very incomplet list of registries. That list does not even listing the working registry or the founding breed registry for many of the breeds. For example There are far more Aussies registered in ASCA than in the AKC. ASCA is not listed. Jack Russels (name changed so am confused now) but the long legged kind, far more in the JRTC registry than in the AKC. Border collies, 22000 a year registered into ABCA (not on the list), only 2-3000 into AKC. ISDS 7000 pups a year. BTW UK KC and AKC are open stud book to ABCA and ISDS, so they believe these are suitable dogs to be in the KC, the people just choose not to register them in the kennel clubs. Kelpies WKC registers far more dogs (in the thousands more) than the ANKC. When ever there is a working registry for a working breed there is usually far more dogs in that registry than in the show registries.

I agree 100% to this . Even if the lab cross poodle comes to be classed as a purebred i would never buy one to me there ugly, Everyone i have meet has been aggerssive towards other dogs. I couldn't see myself spending $900-$1000 for a mutt when i can buy a purebred lab or poodle from a registered breeder who does clearances and are breeding to make the breed better. Lab cross poodle breeders to me are only in it for the money. If the lab cross poodle becomes a purebred it won't be long before they try and make the pug cross beagle,rottweiler cross poodle,golden cross poodle etc purebred too. Have you see these BYB breeders? They are actually putting Irish Setters to Newfoundlands and throwing in some mongrel spainals, can you believe it, what on earth are they thinking. It should be against the law. If you want a link to these cross bred ugly mutts let me know and I will post it.

I have imported a number of dogs over the years. For a first import, I would strongly recommend a young adult male, that is fully health tested and have the semen checked too. It is a huge investment of money time and emotion. So play it safe.

Because they are very special little dogs to me and they deserve the very best I can do for them. A big part of that is finding the right home for them. I work for my pups first, then the owner for the rest of the pups life.

I believe Labrodoodles are already an internationally recognized and registered breed (ANKC is not the only registry in the world of dogs). Just a quick look on line shows, the Labradoodle Club of Australia, of America, of Great Britain, of Canada, the list goes on, all of which are registries with rules written to serve their interests and ideals. BTW there are breeds in the past, there are breeds currently and there will be many breeds in the future the will not have physical show ring standards as the foundation of their breeds existence nor the foundation of their breeding goals. In fact there is a big push in the world today to move away from that type of dog breeding model, has to do with animal rights and welfare issues. So I would fully expect that there will be many groups and individual dog breeders moving towards the new future in dog breeding where physical show standards are not present or if present it wil be in some other form and will not be used the way they are currently used in the kennel clubs. Exciting times.

Just my 2 cents. I do not like the idea that they sell their pups with no papers. That would put me totally off this breeders. Are they even ANKC dogs or are they farm bred dogs? If they are farm bred unregistered dogs they are selling them way way over priced at 700.00. If they are ANKC pups, then they should be registered on Limited and the papers given to the buyer. Waiting list/Deposits does not bother me at all. Most good breeders will have a waiting list and the deposit is to assure both, that the buyer is not waiting for nothing and the breeder has a sincere home waiting for the pup, it means that you both have an agreement. ACDs need some health testing, such as hearing tests, DNA PRA and hips. I would want to work with a breeder who is health testing and registering their pups with ANKC. Temperament is also important. There are over 100 breeders listed on DOL. I would start by looking through these breeders personal web sites for indications that they health test. Take a look at their dogs and if you like them, then contact them about getting on a waiting list, pay the deposit and then wait. Do not be put off by them being in another state, the pup can be shipped to you. If your emails do not get a response then try calling them. Some things are worth the effort and the time invested. Be positive and you will find the perfect puppy and will be enjoying puppy breath sooner than you think.

Are they really? That's very interesting. I don't doubt you, but could you post a link to where you got the information from, as I'd be interested in finding out more. I have nothing against people breeding labradoodles in theory, so long as they're doing right by their dogs and their puppy buyers. However, I don't think the labradoodle will ever become an ANKC recognised breed, any more than the American Pitbull Terrier will. The labrador and poodle people would have a fit at the name, for a start! Someone posted it on DOL the other day. http://www.ava.com.au/about-us/programs-1 look for link Current Australian Breed Averages Labradoodles are ranked 7th 1st Labs 2nd Goldens 3rd Rotts 4th GSD 5th Ridges 6th Border collies 7th Labradoodles

Well thank goodness the BYB and puppy farmers (here we go again name calling) are doing such a good job in screening hips. I was very impressed to see the labradoodles are ranked the 6th or was it 7th most numerous breed in Australia to have their hips screened. And when you take into account the short time labradooldles have been around compared to how long people have been screening labs and poodles (are most ANKC breeders screening Poodles or Labs? I would say not when you look at the total numbers of these breeds that have been screened in AVA), anyway it surely shows that the breeders of labradoodles are ranked up there with the elite of the ANKC dog breeders when it comes to AVA screening for hips.

LOL well I have often thought the same thing. Once we had the border collie why bother creating breeds such as the aussies, kelpies or cattle dogs. LOL (not really just making a point) Sorry but there is no reason what so every that people should not create new breeds, even if they do the job of some other breed. The more breeds we have the better for the future of dogs. There is always need of new genetics. We have narrowed the gene pool over the past 100 years to a very few breed of dogs and we should be moving towards undoing that situation.

Sure. I am not too fussed about AVA or OFA, they work the same for me. I guess I like the number for each hip better in AVA. But knowing that you can take the same xray and send it to 4 readers and get 4 different socres, I look at scores more as a general indication rather then an absolute number. So personally, I think in general terms of normal or not normal, or excellent hips or good hips for example which is more like the OFA system. What I do like very much about OFA is the large data collection thy have on line, and the dog serch. The information you can pull out about your breed is fantastic and you can look up dogs by their name or even my their parents or kennel. You can also bring up lateral pedigrees on any dogs which is what I was dicussing before with the family picture. I think all this is a great aid to both the breeder and the buyer. Look at a few of these data banks http://www.offa.org/stats.html Also try out the 'By Breed ' serch towards the bottom of the page. Then look at the advanced serch, so many options to search by and also see if you can bring up a lateral pedigree on a dog http://www.offa.org/search.html?btnSearch=Advanced+Search

Thanks for that. Im dont really understand how a) if you keep breeding dogs with low hip scores say nothing over 2 in both hips. You do this generation after generation for 10 generations or whatever. How come this doesnt flatten out the scores across the whole litter. How come you might get one with 2:8 crop up? Because you are only looking at one dog from a family of dogs that goes back generations. All of those genes can and often are floating around in the dog you breed. If you only look at the dog you are breeding you are not looking at the biggest genetic picture of that dogs family. For example, That 0-0 dog could have had 2 siblings with HD. Then your litter with an 8-8score , and a 2-4 score, and your 26-23 affected pup and your 0-0 score dog would all look very much expected in a litter from that 0-0 dog eh? HD is known to be several genes could be as many as 6-8, and there is also going to be genes for traits, that in themselves are not genes for HD. Just like rapid growth is known to be a risk trait for OCD, it will also likely be a risk trait for HD. When the genetic picture of a disease is large and complex, looking at single dog gives very little indication of what is really going on in the family. For example I would pick a dog with 6-6 hips, from 3 generations of every dog scored (which means all the siblings) with normal range scores and none with HD, this paints a picture of a family that is not producing HD. I would not pick a dog with 0-0 who had a sibling with HD, who's sire was also 0-0 but who had a half sibling with HD and 4 other siblings not scored, and who's grand sire was also 0-0 but had 3 siblings that were borderline HD. Even though on the surface 3 direct generations on the pedigree with 0-0 scores looks very good, it does not show the real picture, which is a family that is dipping in and out of HD in almost every generation. Is this making sense?

Go back before the Victorians wanted to not only control the pedigrees of the royals so decided to inbreed as a way to keep out the commoners blood, this lead to the idea of royal animal breeding. Go back to before this time you would have not had breeds in the kennel club way of thinking. What you would have seen were types of dogs. Groups of people with types of dogs for the purposes they needed them for. These types of dogs then spread with those people as they migrated and were crossed yet again with other types I the new locations. Collie type dogs come from sight hound types originating in the middle east brought to England by the Romans, which were crossed with Nordic types brought in by the Vikings, throw in some types of cur (hunting type dogs0 and the collie type had begun. For a 1000 years there were collies of many sorts and types usually noted as regional types (Welsh Collie, Scotch Collie, Black and Tan Collie, Bob tailed Collie, Highland collie, Lowland collie, Shetland collie and so on). Collie comes from the root word coal also meaning black, and was slang for coal workers, Coolies. Not only given to the shepherds working dog, this word was also spread about the world by the British and was used for any indentured servant or those of dark colored skin (is documented to have been used here in Australian in the early mid 1800) and then we of course also find the word again given to a collie type dog the Koolie. Now we have gotten rid of most royals, but we still have the kennel club. Most of the types of collies have been lost and the gene pools of the remaining collies have been shall we say refined so as to have bred out all but a very few allowable traits. This has happened to all types of dogs and most types of them have also been lost. After 100 years trying to maintain breed purity Kennel club dogs, we have succeeded in wiping out most of the types of dogs on earth 200-300 years ago. Go figure why we thought that was good. Anyway you are right about types. BTW there are still some 'types' of dogs left. The siberians still breed their Siberians for example, not that the kennel club considers them siberians, but they are what the breed was and still is in it's native land.

There is a great big world of purebred dogs that are not in the ANKC. Though it may be surprising to some, being in the ANKC is the last thing some of them want. I will admit that using the word 'Pedigreed dog' right now is best left securely with the kennel club dogs, for fear that all dog breeders might get taken in with the problems facing them. Pedigreed really means just that, that the dog has a pedigree and a pedigree is not exclusive to ANKC, far from it. However the word we should really use is purebred, as this is also not limited to the kennel club dogs, does not yet carry the baggage associted with the word pedigreed, and we can hope can still be saved as an acceptable method of breeding dogs. Purebred means an animal bred from 2 parents of the same breed. Breeds come to exsist from the mixing of other breeds to form a new breed with a new definition. A breed can be defind a by a lot of different ways, even defined by not using a show ring standard. Anyone or group of breeders can form their own registry or join one already functioning, so they certainly can be registered even if not choosing to particiapate in ANKC. Now can a labraddodles be a purebred? Why not. If they breed 4-5-6 generations of labradoodles or how every many they (not you) decide it takes and they document that to their rules (not yours), in their stud book (not just your stud book) and they breed dogs that fit the definition they set (not that you set) then they can call their dogs purebred Labradoodles if they want to, and would be perfectly right in doing so. Because I know what a labradoodle is and everyone commenting also knows what a labradoodle is. Because Labradoodles already have a registry with rules. Because Labrododdles are listed on the AVA and OFA hip and elbow and health testing registers, and in Australia are the 6th most common breed to be hip scored by AVA. Because Labradoodles are known, have breed clubs and breeders all over the world. I would say they certainly are a breed and can call their dogs purebred, and can call them pedigreed if they like. In fact even if they want to leave their stud book open to accept controlled cross breds, I would still say they are a breed. I could careless if people want to breed labradoodles or buy labradoodles. I do care about the quality of the breeding programs, but that applies to all breeders.

Desexing and HD. Desexing prior to 1 year of age does increase the likelyhood of a higher score. The current evidence sugests that slowing down growth (which means to not desex prior to 12 motnhs of age), keeping pup very lean, reduced calcium diet, and prevention of stressful activites of the joints, will improve scores. This improvement can be enough to prevent HD or at the very least reduce the severity of HD. Desexing prior to the bones having completed their growth increases the time a dog will continue to grow and will even increases their height. It is not recommended to desex prior to 12 months if you are at all worried about HD.