shortstep

Thanks enjoyed that! Do you now what breeds?

Another question, How can they 'restrict' their trade to only commercial sellers of that one orgnaization. If is federal law that ANKC can not restrict their right trade, then why are they not free to trade with who every they want? Would the federal government mandate a monlopy of trade to only one orgnisation of pet shops? Seems they are restricting their right to trade to only one orgnaization of pet shops from reading this rule. This does not ring right to me.

Yes agree but the battle cry is often, as it was in this thread that the real problem is BYB and Puppy farmers, not 'registered" which I guess means only ANKC breeders. I am simply pointing out that as far as I know there are no rules in the ANKC that stop BYB (what ever they are) from being members of ANKC and so forth. I really believe the only way to stop the dumping of pets is through education. Education will prevent people from buying a pet they will not keep. Education will prevent people from not desexing their pets if they know they cannot meet the needs of an intact pet. Education will prevent people from shoping in stores that sell cats and dogs, this will educate the stor owner if he wants to sell pet products he better stop selling pets. If one wants to stop set shop sales, then there are proven methods to make this happen. I believe, if ANKC, MDBA, WKC and other registries, ADAA, Flyball, Trial , the AVA and so forth (after they each write a policy nationwide that no member may sell to pet shops if they do not already have this) in partnership with RSPCA and other rescue orgnaizations called on all members and owners and the public at large to refuse to shop at all pet shops that sell cats and dogs. Send letters to all pet shops explaining what ia required to get on the list of approved pet supply shops. Get the news papers and TV to cover the calling by dog owners, breeders and concerned associations across Asutralia for the request that all person not shop at pet stores that sell cats and dogs. If every dog owner would take just a few min everytime the pass a pet shop that sells pets to speak to the owner manger or even the clerk to tell them you will never shop or recommend their shop to anyone you know with dogs because they sell cats and dogs. Then make an online list of Approved pets shops who have pledged to not sell cats or dogs. In short, notify by public action, that all pet shops need to stop selling pets. Always pollite but gets the point across. You want our buinsess stop selling cats and dogs. This has worked. Do I think preventing pet shops from selling cats and dogs will stop unwanted pets at shelters? Not a chance. But I still think that pet shop sales of cats and dogs is not the right way to get a pet for the owners but more importantly it is not in the best interest of the pets being sold. Shortstep Dogs NSW backed PIAA against moves to ban sales of live animals in pet shops and they actively advertise and promote the ability for their members to sell to PIAA recognised pet shops and agents. The ACCC will not allow the ANKC to prevent their members form selling to a pet shop - this has been tested in a major court case and it is seen as a restriction of trade which is against federal law. This is the main reason the MDBA set up under the business entity we did in the first place. In some states such as SA the clause remains that they are not to sell to retail outlets however it is a proven fact that this is against this federal law and cannot stick. Then how come MDBA can restrict their members trade and ANKC can not. Is only ANKC bond by the federal law you speak of. I do not understand how it would apply to one and not the other? It is my understanding that ANKC is a club, and they can can restrict the conduct of their members as they see fit, as the member represents ANKC. This is why they can say you can only do certain types of TV work. This is why they say you cannot use your stud for over dogs not registered in ANKC or for cross bred litter service, that is restricting your trade too? On this case, was there actually a court trail and verdict, if so you do have any records of the judgement? Dates and so forth.

Yes agree but the battle cry is often, as it was in this thread that the real problem is BYB and Puppy farmers, not 'registered" which I guess means only ANKC breeders. I am simply pointing out that as far as I know there are no rules in the ANKC that stop BYB (what ever they are) from being members of ANKC and so forth. I really believe the only way to stop the dumping of pets is through education. Education will prevent people from buying a pet they will not keep. Education will prevent people from not desexing their pets if they know they cannot meet the needs of an intact pet. Education will prevent people from shoping in stores that sell cats and dogs, this will educate the stor owner if he wants to sell pet products he better stop selling pets. If one wants to stop set shop sales, then there are proven methods to make this happen. I believe, if ANKC, MDBA, WKC and other registries, ADAA, Flyball, Trial , the AVA and so forth (after they each write a policy nationwide that no member may sell to pet shops if they do not already have this) in partnership with RSPCA and other rescue orgnaizations called on all members and owners and the public at large to refuse to shop at all pet shops that sell cats and dogs. Send letters to all pet shops explaining what ia required to get on the list of approved pet supply shops. Get the news papers and TV to cover the calling by dog owners, breeders and concerned associations across Asutralia for the request that all person not shop at pet stores that sell cats and dogs. If every dog owner would take just a few min everytime the pass a pet shop that sells pets to speak to the owner manger or even the clerk to tell them you will never shop or recommend their shop to anyone you know with dogs because they sell cats and dogs. Then make an online list of Approved pets shops who have pledged to not sell cats or dogs. In short, notify by public action, that all pet shops need to stop selling pets. Always pollite but gets the point across. You want our buinsess stop selling cats and dogs. This has worked. Do I think preventing pet shops from selling cats and dogs will stop unwanted pets at shelters? Not a chance. But I still think that pet shop sales of cats and dogs is not the right way to get a pet for the owners but more importantly it is not in the best interest of the pets being sold.

Perfect! That is what all registires need in their code of conduct! Well done.

I guess it's in their best interest to paint themselves as being a lesser contributor while putting all other sources into one group (despite the huge difference between a puppy farm and a breeder) and saying, "There you go, it's their fault, not ours." Edited to add.. What should be included (but never will be) is that virtually all of their dogs come from puppy farms or BYBs and so if a group is going to be lumped with another, it should be them with their suppliers. So.. Puppies bred/sold through registered breeders.. 66,000 (according to Austerra) Puppies bred/sold in puppy farms and BYBs (through pet shops and private sale) .. 384,000 Their number looks considerably less innocuous now. Firstly, I support restricting the sale of dogs and cats in pet shops. However, I fail to see how you can seperate out ANKC breeders from either BYB or puppy farmers (BTW those terms need defining if they are to really mean anything). As far as I know there is no rule in ANKC that bans 'BYB' from membership in ANKC, is there? Is there a rule that says no ANKC member may be a 'puppy farmer' ? I do not hink that saying 'ANKC breeders' automatically excludes them from being a BYB or puppy farmer. Perhaps more to the point, Do any of the state bodies of ANKC have a rule that their members can not sell their dogs/pups to pet shops or place their dogs via pet shops? How about MDBA, WKC, Labradoodle Breeders, any group of dog breeders, do any have a rule that prevents their members for selling to or though pet shops? Seems to me the best way to disassociate yourself from pet shops is to have a rule that members of your group/club/registry may not sell to or through pet shops. Perhaps our efforts are better spent telling our member organizations we do want our members selling to or through pet shops.

http://dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/dgsom/streaming/csig/ Made for Each Other, Dog and Human Co Evolution Friday, February 25th Program UCLA Fowler Museum of Cultural History Lenart Auditorium >> Saturday, February 26th Program DeNeve Plaza Lecture Auditorium Opening Remarks Mark Derr FROM THE TRAILHEAD TO TAILGATE, FROM WOLF TO PAPILLON - THE LONG STRANGE TRIP OF DOGS AND HUMANS Robert Wayne EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY OF THE DOG Karen Allen ARE PETS A HEALTHY PLEASURE? RESEARCH EVIDENCE VS. MEDIA HYPE Eduardo Kohn DOGS, THEIR DREAMS, AND THE LIVES OF AN AMAZONIAN FOREST Ádám Miklósi CO-EVOLVING OR EVOLVING IN PARALLEL? ISSUES IN DOG-HUMAN COMMUNICATION

I used to think I was a Socialist. Then I studied politics and concluded that I wasn't. ;) Left and right are pretty much obsolete terms with regard to mainstream politics IMO. In a world of constant voter opinion polling and the race for the most mass appeal, all we're left (no pun intended) with now is different flavours of vanilla and mass voter apathy. Its like the two men and the donkey story - in trying to please everyone, you end up thrilling no one. Come the revolution, I shall solve all of this. :D Once the cyclists have been sent off for re-education, I'll sort out dog welfare!!! As to PETA, they certainly are not to the right. I heard comment just a few days ago that Labor was now more conservative than they were liberal. Polls, no kidding, see how they run, to the the middle! You will get my vote Poodlefan!

I grew up in California, lived on the left coast for 30 years (correct that 45 years), educated in the Cal state uni system. I have family that live in Santa Cruz. What are your personal qualifications to know about Santa Cruz? None but hey, I now know a lot about yours, or more specifically, your politics! Most illuminating! LOL I guess you needed a brick to hit you in the head...LOL But now that you know, please don't tell anyone that I am not leaning to the left politically, it is a secret. Very illuminating indeed. LOL

Deary me Shortstep - to call anywhere in the US "left wing" is simply ridiculous. And your very adamant view about Santa Cruz seems to be based solely on PETA's presence there. There is far more to being politically 'of the left' than merely having a high profile animal rights group in the neighbourhood. I grew up in California, lived on the left coast for 30 years (correct that 45 years), educated in the Cal state uni system. I have family that live in Santa Cruz. What are your personal qualifications to know about Santa Cruz?

Can you tell us how many rescuers have been convicted for animal welfare issues concerning dogs they are attempting to help? I was sorry to see that the ACT activist? promoting the Vic laws on Animal rescures did not answer my question. I have googled everything I can think of to bring up any problems that have happened with Animal Rescuer abusing animals in anyway in Victoria or anywhere in Australia. Can't find a thing. If there is no history of a big problem (or even a small problem) of rescuers abusing animals in their care, then why is the government spending it's time and money on this when there are real problems that need their attention?

Ok I'll bite. Santa Cruz is a very expensive upper income white left wing coastal community made up of left wing nanny state thinkers. A state which is bankrupt from being run as a total nanny state, where the government tells everybody everything about how to live. Dogs in animal shelters, would they even have any domestic animals to go into a shelter? Just kidding. I am sure the rich children of movie stars, big name lawyers, and far left activists would never take an unwanted animal to a shelter. They would have their vet put it to sleep and give PETA a very big donation to amend for their selfish human ways. Oh did I forget to mention that Santa Cruz is loved by PETA with many PETA members and big donators living there or their children attending Uni there (second home for many of the rich and famous on the left coast). If visiting be sure to get the PETA Veg Eatery guide to Sana Cruz. PETA is also ingrained and very active in the Uni campus. They have wonderful support of the media in SC and California. Here is a recent award given to a young person in Sana Cruz by PETA. http://www.goodtimessantacruz.com/santa-cr...eta-award-.html Thanks but no thanks, never want to live anywhere like Santa Cruz. I never want to see anywhere in Australia mirror Santa Cruz society. Try looking at Calgary Canada if you want to see real reform concerning the welfare of animals and built on a system of respect and encouragement of pet owners. Their system is working and not by taking away everyone's right to own animals or by pushing far left ideas on to the public. http://saveourdogs.net/2009/04/03/%E2%80%9...erica%E2%80%9D/

Can you tell us how many rescuers have been convicted for animal welfare issues concerning dogs they are attempting to help?

And all this to protect homeless dogs from someone who wants to help them.

I think this must be what the most Australians really want. Total control of every aspect of dogs. Otherwise there would be riots in the streets over stuff like this. Maybe what most Australians want is for every person to have to go to the RSPCA and the shire to get permisson to own a dog and that dog is then chosen for them but the RSPCA. Only that will be enough control and removal of indivudule choice to make most Australians feel good about dog ownership. I wish for this; The people of Victoria rise up and say enough it enough, we do not want or need government control of small private dog rescue, nor do we want the RSPCA to be the only rescue in this state. Am I dreaming? Do we really expect the small rescuers to take on the big 2 in Victoria aided by the government and win the right to keep saving dogs lives? They need lots of help if we expect small private rescue survive in Victoria and stop this from spreading across the country.

Just saw this, have looked around on MDBA web site but cannot find it. Can you give me the link? thanks

I find this so selfish and hurtfull to all the animals that will now loose a chance at a new life. Why do they want to run off the smaller non profit rescuers. I hope that those doing resecue and concerned about rescue now realize just who is really on the side of the dogs and who is really just out to make $$ and push their political beliefs on others. I think the they just can't stand the thought or some people donating to other small groups or recuers and they want all the donation to go to them. So very very sad but hardly unexpected, is it.

Start with mental health consults all round.

Well with 45 litters of ANKC border collie pups offered for sale on DOL, it is probably good that most are suitable to be 'couch potato' family pets.

Do you mean like lots of ANKC breeders in WA do? For example, Puppy with ANKC papers X$$ or with out ANKC papers -X$$.

I have some panalog for another problem. Does this lubricate the eye really well? I don't think you should use medications that were not first OK'd with your vet. If possibel you might want to consider going to an eye specialist. I had a vet look at eye problem my dogs was having, after a week and it seemed liek things were getting worse, I took the dog to a specialist. Different DX and different treatment and all was well very soon. I think if things with eyes are not going well is is worth the money to have an expert take a look.

I do not know, it almost seems impossible to resolve under the current system, for starters they should hoave tow ork within the law and should not have the power to act as police. However if the tax payer money could only be spent on direct care activities to help animals such as shelters, it might help a little bit. I suppose they would just ues all the donation money to pay for their politics with. But at least the doners could see exactly where their money is going and that it is not to pay for the care for animals.

Saw this morning http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/ Free Speech or Subsidized Speech? It is about the Humane Society in the US (sort of like the RSPCA) and very interestingly it talks about some new laws in Canada about animal rights groups vs animal welfare groups and receiving public money. About time!

deleated double post

Thanks everyone! Will get a couple of plastic snakes today and give it a try. I looked around for the Hot Foot, a couple of places in QLD come up on search, but both no longer have the pnone numbers listed. I'll keep looking for it. I saw some light weight metal mess in sheets that is applied to frame (like lining an inside wall with plaster board) that keeps them from reaching the beams. I may call the folks who build the shed and see if they also install this stuff. If this were put up on the bottom side of the roof joyce I think think would be a solution if not too expensive. Keep the ideas comeing!