bedazzledx2

Rally sounds like it will help with traditional club style obedience classes. From what I've seen on the web its got lots to offer. Looking forward to the seminars

Start with one glove and work on getting a nice pick up and retrieve with no mouthing in close. Then from further away, then work on a great present with the glove...no mouthing. Then get back to us!!!!

I agree that handlers eyeballing their dogs the whole round is not a pretty look but as Seita said you can look ahead and keep your dog in your peripheral vision. I don't like to see handlers marching around with no apparent connection to their dogs as Ptolomy mentioned. Its all a matter of degree.

Sorry Longcoat but you just put your foot in it!!!! You can only use marker words in the ring in between exercises, you can't use them when you are actually competing, can you? Personally I use a marker and release word myself but each to their own, you have highly successful people like Uta Bindels who use clickers and get great results in (Schutzhund) competition, obviously it works for them Can you use food and clickers in the ring between exercises???. Most world level Schutzhund trainers don't use clickers and more train with E Collars on the quiet. The point is, the less devices you need to rely upon to motivate working potential, the better the dogs training foundation for reliability.

Yep! have to agree there mmoo. Guru Sue H says turn straight, look straight, run straight! I see a lot of people try and fudge glove 2 or 3 by under or over turning and I think this does a disservice to your dog in the long term. Practice turns and reward great turns without doing the actual retrieve. I do this for his dinner if I'm feeding from a bowl that night, otherwise I will do it to a bait plate.

Woo Hoo! Congratulations! I do hate stays!

Thanks Tiggy, Fortunately theres not much on it that I won't miss and the cost of recovery is really not worth it. Teach me to make back ups!!! I do tend to make DVD's of the big trials as back ups so will just have to be a bit more vigilant about it. Brookie has his moments believe me!!! I asked my Dad(he's a computer nerd ) and he said if you take the hard drive to a computer shop they might be able to recover what was on it but he's not sure what they'll charge. As for getting a new one he said they're all pretty much the same. When I first read the 'I have issues at the moment' I thought it was dog related and thought it can't be Brooklyn he's too perfect .

Mate, you won't be the only one! Look out for Feral Aussie!!!! Nope missed the closing date unfortunately. Spent yesterday rounding up stuff for making my jumps. My next trial is the state trial then southern river the next weekend (both am and pm trials) then the GSDA trial the next day, then NATIONALS!!! Just posted my entries for Southern River - looking forward to meeting you guys - but nobody laugh if I lose the plot and the BC goes feral.

:laugh: Yup I did too, I think perhaps it's time we stop banging our heads on brick walls, some people just aren't open to learning new things and only want to have their say, without actually acknowledging other peoples answers...

Yeah he was a bit mean wasn't he! He is the past master at the game of tease...we often say he's like the little brother who is mummy's little darling but teases the other kids terribly!!! He pinched Scoota's plastic boot in Adelaide and did the same thing!!!! LOL = celebrating we were. Rubystar is the best person to have in the car - her bag held an endless supply of Goodies or jackpots for me Big congratulations to Bedazzled who took out UD at both trials today - well done mate Big woohoo for bedazzled! Her UD rounds were great!! (as always ) Then Brooklyn celebrated his success by playing i-squeak keepy-off with Ruby

I have issues at the moment. My newish (Christmas) external harddrive has crashed and it appears not to be re-coverable and my C drive is telling me its out of space!!!! My camera is a hard drive so I have to download it to regain the space....I think I'm up for new external hard drive....bugga!!! Anyone have any recommendations of brands or brands to avoid? LOL = celebrating we were. Rubystar is the best person to have in the car - her bag held an endless supply of Goodies or jackpots for me Big congratulations to Bedazzled who took out UD at both trials today - well done mate Where is the video's bedazzled?? Would love to see

So they keep trying to tell me Huski Clearly somethings wrong here I am more concerned about the food trained dogs that a starved for 3 days prior to a training session to generate higher levels of food motivation ;) I agree Angelsun that the more training established without food motivation, the greater the reliability. What about training with food makes a dog unreliable? Food is a reward just as praise is a reward. Just because you train with food does not mean you don't or can't also use praise. Would you expect your dog to work with no reward whatsoever? No food, toys or praise? ETA: Impossible Bedazzled! Don't you know dogs who are rewarded with food are unreliable and don't work well or know how to think??

My little brag for the weekend....my positively trained (with food...gasp!) boy won both Utility trials in today's double header 192/200 and 198/200. No food or toys allowed in the ring. Wonder how that happened? I am more concerned about the food trained dogs that a starved for 3 days prior to a training session to generate higher levels of food motivation I agree Angelsun that the more training established without food motivation, the greater the reliability.

Why do you ask?

She was lovely RubyStar You should be very proud of her. Goood Girrl Ruby! ;) (oh and the handler wasn't half bad either!!!) :p

What evidence do you require Longcoat? This i cant answer until i see further lessons and how the dogs react etc I still cant understand if a distraction is greater than the reward does it not mean that the reward pales in significance to the distraction? As i previously stated i have been to 3 DIFFERENT schools all under the same association guidlines and i have seen the same at all three.But i will wait and see. Regarding the dogs ability when completed , i believe that a trainers dog would be the guide to what can be achieved? Well after counting seven breaks from a drop not counting the ones before hand before i started counting... it leaves a lot left to be desired.Eventually the dog was tied up.This was in the hour we were there.No i am not exagerating or colouring the truth for the benifit of this thread.Each time, the owner/trainer causally walked back to the dog led it back to its spot and told it to drop then left again ...oh there was a little bit of friendly finger shaking at it then a pat. so whats in the pudding??? When a distraction is greater than the reward, that's when purely positive methods fail in my experience. The dog has to learn that there are negative consequences to an action of disobedience greater than withholding a treat. Seven breaks from a stay doesn't sound very inspiring Seriously some of these "positive" training systems come up with so much garbage it's honestly laughable . What "guru" determined that you shouldn't say "NO" to your dog and what achievement has this "guru" earned better than others who do say "NO"???. Someone comes up with a theory that we shouldn't use check chains whilst the trainers of high performance sport dogs are using E Collars and prongs. Nothing of concrete evidence determines that a dog trained entirely of positive methods creates are more reliable dog than negative reinforcement or a combination of both.

You appear to be lumping all positive training into the one basket and making the assumption that when the distractions become greater than the rewards, positive methods fail. This is just not so! So much depends on the trainer and their understanding of positive training. Good positive trainers teach the dog (without punishment) that the greater the distraction, the greater the potential for reward from their trainer and will focus even more on the trainer. As I said before...positive is not permissive. The trainer quoted here allowed her dog to break a down stay several times....bad trainer!!! Not the dogs fault and punishing the dog for not doing what its obviously not trained/proofed to do would be unfair. Its worth investigating the benefits of positive training with an open mind. BTW we are talking about starting dogs here in a normal pet class, not trying to reform aggressive dogs or dogs with behavioural problems. Positive has a place there too but that is for a different thread. This i cant answer until i see further lessons and how the dogs react etc I still cant understand if a distraction is greater than the reward does it not mean that the reward pales in significance to the distraction? As i previously stated i have been to 3 DIFFERENT schools all under the same association guidlines and i have seen the same at all three.But i will wait and see. Regarding the dogs ability when completed , i believe that a trainers dog would be the guide to what can be achieved? Well after counting seven breaks from a drop not counting the ones before hand before i started counting... it leaves a lot left to be desired.Eventually the dog was tied up.This was in the hour we were there.No i am not exagerating or colouring the truth for the benifit of this thread.Each time, the owner/trainer causally walked back to the dog led it back to its spot and told it to drop then left again ...oh there was a little bit of friendly finger shaking at it then a pat. so whats in the pudding??? When a distraction is greater than the reward, that's when purely positive methods fail in my experience. The dog has to learn that there are negative consequences to an action of disobedience greater than withholding a treat. Seven breaks from a stay doesn't sound very inspiring

Ditto!!! Upright with the ball and motorized power head! Brilliant

What's your point Longcoat?

It does sound a bit haphazard . I prescribe to the mind set of error-less learning. I try very hard to set my dog/puppy up to be right and control the environment as best I can so that there is no need to correct or admonish. Positive is not permissive. It sounds as though they are trying very hard to be positive which is great but maybe something is being lost in the translation? Group classes are not easy and I have to admit I would never take a youngster to one other than be around the sidelines doing my own thing.

Me neither! Don't forget that garlic is a member of the onion family!

The Shirley Chong method works really well and it's my preferred method of teaching a retrieve but, as with all training, you have to get each step right before you move on. Many people rush it and then don't have a good foundation to fall back on. Its also important to see it through to the end....again I've seen lots of people say they've used this method but the result sometimes falls short of Shirley's vision! As far as I know there is no website that lists games you can play with your dog to help with training. Best bet is to ask questions and if nobody responds ....then ask again! Rubystar has recommended the Shirley Chong method for retrieving - many people use it and it works well

Well done ;) Daisy's coming along nicely!

A lot depends on the breed....flatter is definately not better for a Border Collie!!! A whippet on the other hand tends to jump so high that they can lose time in the air. I would be surprised if you were able to substantially change a dog's natural style although the faster they go the flatter they tend to jump.

Thanks Tiggy...I know where you mean, somehow I always assumed it was cooked food. I'll check them out after Easter. I can't remember the name of the street but you know if you're coming from those new shops JB HI FI, BCF etc and turn left at the lights where Harvey Norman is on the corner, go over the railway then turn right, it's on your left not far after you turn in, it's the back way to getting to Bunnings, hope you understand my directions . The guy that runs it is pretty full on but very nice, he breeds Cattle dogs.