bedazzledx2

Never say Never!!!!! After Many MANY months of limited success with only using one seekback, we found that we weren't getting any consistency with his work. We had tried EVERYTHING - as in shorter searches, food on the seekback... you name it, we tried it (there were about 5 of us trying to put our heads together). Now it wasn't that he *couldnt* do the exercise but that he would 'distrust' his nose and always come back to me for a 2nd cue (which he would always find if offered). If I said 'nup too bad, back in the car' if he came back to me, he fell to pieces. If I stood there and said nothing, he would just sit next to me not sure what to do. A fellow trainer came up with this idea and it seemed to fit exactly what we were trying to achieve with Leo and I have to say the build up in his confidence has been remarkable Because we are ate the 'final' stages of this proofing now so we want him to be completely confident no matter what pattern he is given. So now, for your 'ordinary' track (up the far end of the ring) we now have anywhere from 1- 3 seekbacks in the ring, which he finds with gutso. So now witht he keyhole track, we put out the max number of seekbacks again to build up his confidence, before cutting it back once more. So it certainly wasn't the first one we threw at him I know it's not the ideal way to teach it, but guess what it works for him Given that it is highly unlikely we will ever venture into the UDX ring, I can't see how it would ever have any detrimental affects, and even if I did venture into the UDX ring, I don't percieve it having any more difficulty than a normal UD dog learning about the 'decoy' as the 'decoy' will always be unscented

No because the op said after having been made aware of the fact that it is not allowable 'many use it, you can't prove it and it would be denied', this in my opinion is unethical.

Yes! You will need it in UD signals. Mine is quite subtle being one finger pointing away from him...hard to explain, (in early training he was confused by my stay and down signal so I changed the stay one to be much higher) and always step off on my right foot.

Oh No!!! Boy Brains transcends all species!!! So it's not just human boys with this problem

And therin lies the answer to why they have no place in training for competition. You have just proved the dubious ethics of said collar and users. Good Lord...this is a competition for ribbons! It is not life and death, these are not Military dogs, they are our pets. If we choose to train and compete in a sport that does not allow these things then it is our responsibility to train (teach) our dogs arbitrary rules without fear or aversives. In answer to the OP who wisely realises that an E Collar is only going to increase the anxiety her dog feels, I would take your dog back to baby stays. use a different word (you may have a poisoned cue with your current stay word) and reward close stays in many different situations. Until your dog has a good reward history of staying in distracting situations with lots of rewards I wouldn't go for time or distance yet. Leopuppy has given you some great advice. That could be true too Ness, I am not familiar with those rules as such. There are however, many that do use E Collars in training which esentially would be an extremely difficult case to prove against someone, but having said that, would give reason for why E Collar use is often vigorously denied in many circumstances Cheers Nev edited for spelling

Do you compete in ANKC obedience Nev? You would be surprised where E collars are used regularly in SA Why is that Bedazzled.............I am interested in your views on that??? Cheers Nev

I know a brilliant trainer who's 'emercency recall' is in a really cranky voice! She knows when she needs it she wont be happy and she pairs it with click/treat. Dog responds first time, every time

They have no place in obedience training for ANKC trialling!!!! You would be surprised where E collars are used regularly in SA

Perch work is a good way to start shaping. I shaped him getting on the perch although you can lure it if you like. From there you can shape him to take one step sideway still keeping his front feet on the perch. Click and treat the one step, pretty soon you will get two and four steps until you get what you want. I shaped a full circle anticlock wise...the biggest hurdle was for him to keep his bum swinging between me and the perch. I was bored the other day so thought I'd shape it the other way...clockwise. Boy did that blow his little brain!!!!!! I eventually got one step in the other direction and then two...big party! We are now at that sticky point of pushing it further so I've let it rest for latent learning to do its magic and then I'll have another go tomorrow. Here's a link to Celete Mead's brick work.

Thats great that he knows the word 'gentle' All you need do is to click and as you present the food say 'gentle' as he is taking it. Another tip is that I see lots of people hold the treat a little high so the dog reaches for it which can encourage a snatch. One of the principles of clicker is to click the action and feed in position. When you feed, shove the food into his mouth so he's not reaching.

... and you haven't included dumbbell, clicker, jumps and UD box, seekback artilcle, scent articles, gloves, tuggy and balls Wait until you start trialling!!! Then you have to think about chairs, umbrella or gazebo, armband, coffee and thermos, wine and glasses....the list goes on!!!!! We must all be mad!!!!

It was the house brick that did my Kelpie's teeth in!!!

You MUST NOT point down the ring or touch the ground. You may point to the track which will be directly in front of you. You can lose points to a fail if you point to the article unless it is in front of you. But then isn't the idea of a seek back for the dog to find the article no matter where it is placed in the ring? I would hate it if we only ever did a reverse seekback (which where you send the dog back down towards the starting post) cause my dog wouldn't even bother to use his nose as he'd know where to look for it Even though we have both the forward and reverse seekback I still did alot of practise in the dark to make him use his nose Also when you send your dog for the seekback, what is the general consensus of how you do it? Do a) point down the ring b) point to the track c) touch the ground to send the dog?

.....how many ciders have you had???!!!!

Interesting what the different states use for the start peg. Some just have a disc on the ground, others have a cone or a post. WA have a figure 8 post which is quite visible. I'm always concerned when I see a disc on the ground but so far we've had no problems (touch wood!)

Nice Tiggy I like your pace, it doesn't look too fast on the video.

figure 8 - your choice. If my dog is 'on' I'll go right (I train to go right). If the entry looks better to the left (some judges will put you in from the side) then I'll go left. I make up my mind as I'm approaching the figure 8. When you leave the figure 8 it is important to leave immediately on the same trajectory you are on. Its something many judges (myself included) will ping you for if you continue after being commanded to lead out. Recall - follow the judges commands and you wont go wrong. Another place you can be pinged is when the judge tells you to leave your dog and when you are around 10 to 12 meters away, command you to about turn, and halt. When you about turn don't assume that all judges will immediately halt you. Continue walking back until you hear halt. On the other hand if you hear 'about turn and halt' you must halt immediately! Same goes for change of position and stand for examination. Ring craft can be so important and is really worth more attention than a lot of triallers give it.

Ssshhhh!!!! Don't let the retrieving people see you!!!!!

Yep! I retired my Kelpie when she was fit and sound but was misjudging the jumps. Her eyesight was deteriorating and it was a shame as she was great in every other way. She had a long and wonderful retirement though and I never regretted retiring her when I did. My BC Jasper was also retired fairly early (9 yrs) due to intermittent lameness. He is also living a very happy and healthy retirement.

Hey!!! I thought you wanted an Aussie!!! (They have Toller bits you know )

Thanks for that Seita

Huge congratulations Smisch Thats a fantastic brag! Well done RubyStar! Bodes well for the future!!!!

Well that was succinct!!!!!! ;) Hey Debazzled whats the chances of conning Caffy into doing UDX with her feral red Splutter

Can we get it from the 'horses mouth' so to speak? If you have an email addy I could write and ask as people from interstate need to know long before the event. I have no idea either Kath. Perhaps we apply and the top scoring dogs get selected... maybe each state does it differently. Yes hopefully we get more info closer to the trial!

Thanks Seita. I'll keep a watch out for more info! No idea Sounds interesting though! ;) Looks like a teams event! I know who will be in the WA team..!! and no, it's not me How fun would that be. So the WA team would be bedazzled, Ptolomy and ? I think it sounds awesome! I hope that I get to be in one of the QLD teams :D No Bedazzled I think it's teams of 3 in each level, and number 6 in the rules says that the same teams or individiual dogs cannot compete in more than one class. So say you Ptolomy and someone made up a team of 3 for UD, none of you guys could be in a team for the CDX or UDX as well. Well at least that's how I read it! Hopefully they'll explain it a bit clearer before the entries are due! :p