bedazzledx2

I think Mack Truck is how you described it!!!!!

Can you post a photo of your bag with either you or your dogs next to it for reference to scale? I'm much better with a real life visual

Well done Xena UDX is a tough class. Sounds like it won't be long for her to nail it!

In early training I only mark after the dog has selected the correct article and is returning to me. I don't ask for a present at this stage and if he gets it wrong I will make it easier for him to get the right one. The dog is always right! If he starts randomly grabbing I will abort the exercise and try again later with a new set of articles or only one if thats what it takes for him to be right. I will go back to basics in a session tonight and see how we go. I really tried hard to mark randomly as she got better at finding the right article so she wouldn't rely on my mark. Do you guys mark the correct article in the early training stages? Or just let them figure it out and reward when they bring it back?

I guess it depends on the conditions you find yourself trialling in week after week. We have wonderful grounds in WA with lovely short grass and we do at least 90% of our trials on this type of terrain. This means no matter how you train your dog to track, dogs, being dogs, will take the shortcut by finding it by sight when it is clearly visible. Experienced UD dogs in WA will generally look for it first and use their nose if they can't see the article. Problems also arise when you trial 2 or more dogs in UD as by the time you have trialled the first you will have walked all over the ring, laying scent everywhere so its never going to be a clean track for your next dog. We generally only have one ring for UD these days so contaminated ground can be an issue.

I've done it a few times. Mug of boiling water and a pair of pliers. Let the tag soak for a few minutes until the plastic softens and them use the pliers to twist the end of the tag and it should come apart easy. Bonus wash for the tag in the process!

I would add to this to forget about the NRM"s. You have to trust your dog in scent and for all we know scent has blown on to another article and a NRM in this instance will just cause her to doubt herself. Seita - where exactly did you put the "yes" as she was picking it up perhaps???? when I was training it I would mark right article as soon as she indicated it, as she got better at it I'd wait til she'd picked it up. and I think this is where your problem originated as she has become unsure she is waiting for you to indicate yes that is the correct article hence why even when she finds the correct one she will pick it up and put it down and move onto the rest of the pack. You really need to go back to basics as if she doesn't know the exercise at all, but you should be able to build it up quite quickly, once she has learnt to find the article herself without your help and to trust her judgement. If you want to give her feedback make sure it is in different spots on her way back or when she has presented, or even after you have taken the article.

Awesome!!!! :) Congratulations!!!

Me too! Just way too expensive to travel East for seminars.

I got an Anatolian, Black Russian, Dobermann, German Pincer and a Great Dane!!! Whilst they all may be great dogs and I can admire them from afar not one of them would suite my lifestyle! I was aiming for a BC or an Aussie. What is medium about an any of these breeds????? My next prospect is going to be a working Kelpie! Select a dog http://selectadog.pedigree.com.au/ came up with English Springer, Saluki (not sure about this one for me), Cocker (Yank), Border Collie, Wire Fox Terrier, Sibe, Kelpie (Yay!)

This was my first fenced yard for my dog when I only had one. He was a second hand dog and a known Houdini but I didn't have much money so got some star pickets second hand and some dog fencing from Bunnings and a second hand gate out of the paper. I then used sleepers and rocks around the perimeter so he couldn't dig out and kept an eye on him while I had him in there while I was home. When I went out I asked my neighbor to check on him and it worked really well. Later on I replaced the fencing with pool fencing again second hand out of the paper which did the same job but looked a bit better. Often I see second hand fencing in the paper very cheap and I would recommend checking that out. I worry about the e fencing as I have known many dogs to go through the shock when they are in a high state of arousal (chasing a cat of dog etc) and then not be able to get back in or worse have other dogs come into the yard and cause problems. Its also very expensive. An owner has a responsibility to the dog. What would happen if George got hit by a car? Or caused a driver to swerve and crash? Was injured, fought with another dog or attacked another? If you want George to say hello clip a leash to his collar and bring him over for play dates.

Congratulations! Open's a fun class...enjoy!

Mine is sound asleep on MY bed!!!!! Yes definately for new stuff. I do if I'm doing agility as it's part of Darcy's warm-up. But never for obedience work. I don't deliberately plan to have down time after training, it's just that it often works that way. I don't crate at home but I've just been out with my two and one is roasting herself in front of the heater and the other is sound asleep on her bed. I would imagine the benefit would be higher for new learning versus practising a known behaviour?

Depends on the dog, depends on the walk, depends on the attention and focus you get in training. Personally I exercise would them after class or on alternate days. I want full adrenalised attention in training even if its a bit OTT. What about walking them in the afternoon after work then going to training in the evening? That's what I've been doing. I've been naughty and let them run around before class to .

I think it depends on the dog. If the dog is disinterested in training or interaction with the handler, I agree it would be one way of getting more interest. My dogs love training and will turn themselves inside out to have a go so for them I don't crate before hand. Thinking about it though...the car is a kinda crate! We always drive to training other than around the house stuff so effectively they are crated beforehand! One thing I would never do is to walk them or give them a run Before training! The book also states that you should crate before training so that the dog wants the interaction (so yes, a form of deprivation), though the down time afterwards seems to be aimed more along the lines of having the dog absorb the information. I do get the impression that it doesn't neccessarily have to be crated time as it does peace and quiet. Pretty much what bedazzledx2 is getting at with the latent learning

I'm a big believer in latent learning. When I teach something new and particularly with shaping games, my training is very short and then I'll put him away to think about it. I think its really important for puppies and for new behaviours. All of Brookie's training was done this way as I trained him at work in 5 minute bursts and then he went back to his crate. I don't think it makes much difference once the dog has mastered the exercise and you are training a run through for competition for example. Hopefully by then he will know his job and you are polishing!

I can see the value of this method particularly when UD was the highest class. Unfortunately UDX has the decoy component to the seekback and the dog really needs to understand that there is only one correct article and that is the scented one. Personally I would rather that exercise be dropped from UDX but I don't think it will so we have to train for it. I wonder if your initial training was a bit too fast and he got a bit overwhelmed? When I start seekback I will do a tiny arc of heelwork, leave the dog in a wait and walk back to the beginning and show him the article. Drop it from shoulder height so he notices it...go back to him and send. Don't worry if he anticipates any part of it. I build that to the same amount of heelwork but to drop it quite obviously and send from a really short distance. Increase the distance and alternate between dropping it and leaving him and showing him. This is initially fairly close to the start peg so he associates that with the beginning of the seekback. Don't forget that when you face the other direction where you about turn and halt shows a different picture to your dog and many get confused and go out of the area. You have to build this just as carefully. Thanks TSD Yup - no unscented - ALL are scented, and ALL are correct for him to bring back Gives him the most chance of success

Harvey Norman ads!!!! Conditioned response for me to find the remote and turn it over or off!!!!! (Actually any loud obnoxious ads but HN head the list at the moment!!!)

Now you're just messing with my head I'm the only insane one training 2 Labs down there... I'm so not following what you're saying Edit: Lightbulb moment!

You've got a yellow one and a brown one....... Now I want to know who that is! Gotta rack my brain.... We've trained under the carpark lights a few times

No training on Monday RubyStar although I know one regular (not on this list) who turned up and trained in the dark! Thats dedication!!!! Was there training on Monday night? I thought it was school holidays already so I stayed home Bugger!!! It is school holidays does you club always break over the school holidays? Obedience, yes. I was told they haven't reserved the K9 grounds over the school holidays so even if you train on your own, you're working in the dark

Thanks for the report and the fantastic photos flyingduster Its wonderful when people are exposed to positive training and have those brilliant light bulb moments!!!!

Apart from the E collar discussion on which I think we have to agree to disagree, how do you determine 'nerve strength'? It amazes me how people can put an anxious dog through the stress of trialling where quite clearly it has an insuffient nerve platform to do the job. It's ok to impose trialling stress on the dog week after week, month after month trying to overcome the dog's anxiety, but the stress of an E Collar is considered inhumane, but personally, I think the trialling of a dog with insuffient nerve strength is far worse. Anxious dogs IMHO are better off curled up on the lounge enjoyed as pet, not being exposed to the stress of competition when genetically compromised. Cheers Nev

I think thats a very fair and honest assessment. I spend a huge amount of time and effort in early training for a reliable recall and in the main I think I have it. Having said that I won't put my dog in danger by having him off lead in a dangerous situation and thats the reality. I see many people walk their dogs on the footpath of a busy road without a lead. My dog is very well trained to both heel and recall but there is no way I will put him in that sort of potential danger. So yes, I think you can train for a reliable recall but there is always that one thing that just happens and you cant proof against. I said way back on page 1 that I don't think you could ever be sure that a dog will recall 100% of the time, even though you may be lucky and never come across the situation where they don't. I was referring to the dinosour / humans 'mating' on the oval ( ) situations. I'm sure it would be possible for most dogs, with the right training method and effort, to recall every single time for their entire life, but to me that still wouldn't guarantee 100% recall. It's excellent recall every time, until they come across their dinosaur (which, as I said before, they may never come across!) Sorry I know that's a bit confusing (and pedantic). I guess it comes back to what Aidan said, 100% of what? Reading all the posts has been very interesting and has made me think, but hasn't in the end changed my personal opinion from what I said at the beginning. I guess in applying my opinion to real life, it means that I wouldn't have my dog off-leash in a high-risk area unless there was a very good reason for it (outweighing the risk of him not recalling), even if he came every single time I called him. And I wouldn't test it in a high risk situation to know if it was effective there anyway .

OK edit to say some e collar users. Off to training now with my clicker and treats